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Snake non-feeding and colour loss

A

Arby

New member
Hey all,

Having a bit of a problem with Ammy (our smaller snake - see sig). She refused to eat last week, and she won't eat this week either.

To feed them, we have a separate tank (a little carrying one) which we put on the side and put a snake in, add a mouse, and let it feed. We have tried wiggling the mouse around to simulate life in the f/t mouse but Ammy is not interested.

We also warm up the pinkie on a saucer above some hot water to make it more "life-like". We have also tried braining the mouse, and holding the snake and the mouse and tempting it to feed, all with no luck. We also tried leaving it in a small deli-cup overnight with the mouse in it's viv - still no luck.

As well as not eating, she seems to have lost colour. She is a Hypo, and shed about a week ago (which would explain last week's non-feed), but where she was once a nice bright red/orange, her colour is very dull and the bottom of her body is a dark colour, almost blackish-brown at the bottom of the sides of her body.

She gets very scared just being picked up and tries to escape. When we take her out and put her in the feeding tank she just spend the whole time trying to get out, and is breathing very fast. When in her viv, she hides in a snake cave all the time and never comes out.

She has fed before (from the shop), and she fed the first week we had her, but not the past two weeks. She is in her viv now, we placed the lacerated pinkie on a saucer in there but she has just hidden away somewhere.

Any ideas? :(
 
I'm really not sure what to suggest but have you checked her warm side and cool side temps? When you say she is turning brownish black along her sides, I'm thinking if she is an amelanistic, could she be getting burned?? If her heat pad is too hot this is a possibility and would also account for her refusing to eat! It could also be fatal to your snake if not corrected quickly!

Could you post any pictures of the snake in question? Because that would give us a better idea of what may be happening. I clicked into your "my snakes" in your sig and it looks like your heat pad is a bit on the large side for the terrarium size your using. You ideally want the heat pad covering 1/3 to 1/2 of the bottom of the tank, yours looks to be covering 2/3. Are you using a thermostat to control the heat pads on your tanks?

That's all I can think of off the top of my head at the moment. But if you post pictures it would be a great help!
 
Could be... I have no way of measuring the temperature since my thermometer is fixed to the side of the tank (at the top) and it's just a cheap crappy one anyway. I could post pictures but my camera is not very good at close-up shots - basically it's just that the normal colouring looks faded, and dell, like she's been out in the sun too long, and the bottom of her just looks darker than normal. Like her contrast has been turned down, lol.

The pad might be too large - it is the one that the shop owner recommended to me for that size viv, and he also said that I do not need a thermometer until they move up to a full size wood/glass viv, next summer. I could always move the pad a bit further to the right? Although Taka doesn't seem to have the same problem in his tank. Out of a tank width of about 41cm, the pad covers 19cm, which is a bit too much I suppose.

One thing I do notice is that both snakes like to hide under the moss in the cave on the far left of the tanks (cool side), and rarely leave - We almost never see them on the hit side, or even in the cave a little bit further along.


EDIT: I've adjusted the mat to be exactly 1/3 over. Also, the Aspen is about 1" deep in most places - I found this difficult to judge because the bag of Aspen recommended 2-3" of Aspen coverage, and the heat mat said put no more than 1cm (just under 1/2") of substrate down when using the heat mat! So I went about half way. Is this ok?
 
Arby,
I feel like you are jumping the gun on this. If I understand correctly you have only had this snake for 3 or 4 weeks and it has skipped the last two meals, while shedding during that time. Am I about right?

In any case that is not near enough time to do any harm or cause for alarm. It would be pretty normal to skip a feed or two during the shedding time. Another factor is that it is new to you so the snake is still becoming accustomed to you and it’s new home.

The main reason for feeding in a separate container is so you can be sure that the snake doesn’t pick up any substraight with the pinky. In this case, I think being handled and being put yet again into a strange environment may be making the poor little guy to nervous to eat.

Try this, put a piece of paper right at the door of his cave/hide. Put a pinky on the paper. Do this as quietly as possible with very little disturbance. Now leave the room and don’t come back until tomorrow. I’ll bet the pinky is gone.
 
Could be - They have both had three "potential" feeding days - Taka ate his mouse every one, without fail. Ammy ate the first, didn't eat the second (last Friday) (but then shed a couple of days later), and didn't eat yesterday (or her attempted repeated feed today) either.

That might be the case - she is now in her main tank, and there is a pinky (admittedly a bit mushed up - should I put a fresh one in?) on a saucer in the middle of the tank, so I'm kinda doing that. I can't leave the room though, since they are in my bedroom :D. But I suppose I can put them in a different room if that would help?
 
I just read your second post. Are you keeping these two snakes in the same cage? It’s is not at all unusual for one snake to intimidate another. That could be contributing to the uneasy nervous behavior.

The thermometer at the top of the glass is measuring the temperature of the top of the glass. This has very little to do with the snakes environment. You really need a thermometer that you can put on the floor of the cage and measure the temperature of snake world. They may be spending all their time at the cool end because the warm end is too hot.
 
Nope, they are each in a seperate (identical) tank - the layout in both tanks is almost identical, though Taka is about 2 months older.

And that's a good point. Maybe I need to invest in a more fancy thermometer...
 
Right, here are some pics:

http://www.arbital24.com/Pics/Snakes/NotFeeding/

Both JPG (low quality, small filesize) and TIFFs (large files, high quality).

That's how I've positioned the mouse. The exit from the snake hide on the right is at the top - is that ok? Also you can see that the thermometer is now buried in the substrate, touching the plastic at the bottom, at the hot end - now reading 81ish (rather than 75 at the top of the tank).

PICT0002.jpg


PICT0008.jpg
 
Thanks :). If she doesn't eat, should we try again tomorrow? Also is there much else we can do other than force-feeding her (which I've heard isn't really recommended unless it's an emergancy). I've heard that Corn snakes can go for about a month without eating, well it's only been 2 weeks so far, but then.. she might refuse again next week, it's quite worrying.
 
Arby,
You're not going to survive this experience. You need to sit down and take a deep breath count to ten (in metric) and relax a little.

If he doesn’t eat this time I’d skip and try again next week. There is really nothing to worry about at this point. With the new home and the shed and all the other new things going on, I am sure your snake is just a little nervous.

It would be really unusual for a young corn snake to suddenly just quit eating. Non feeders are almost always non-feeders right out of the egg and never eat at all. At this point I don’t think force-feeding should even be a consideration. That isn’t going to happen. The only snakes I have ever force-fed are snakes that never ate from day one and were going to die if I didn’t force them.

It’s going to be OK, really
 
Arby, Wade has given great advice. A couple of things I would add though.

First, since the snakes are in your room, you can cover her viv with a sheet or towel to give her privacy. I have to do that with one of my young ones. It was the only way I could get her to eat.

The other thing is, leave the pink on the plate in her viv overnight. This gives her plenty of time to find it and plenty of time to feel comfortable enough to eat. Snakes are very vulnerable when they eat.
 
Thanks you guys :).

Sure, I'll put a towel over her viv and leave her overnight. When do I need to worry though? (I.e. how long can a snake of about 5 months old live without food?)


EDIT: Towel added :D. And Wade - I hope I survive this experiance o_O. My snake isn't going to kill me is it? lol.
 
You've been given great advice so far and here's a link for a digital thermometer

http://www.livefoods.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=66&products_id=767

Or you could try looking on ebay.co.uk and search digital thermometers.

Both sell them pretty cheaply and they are really worth the investment.

I personally would offer a feed every 5 to 7 days until she starts eating as trying to feed too often can over stress a nervous feeder. If you follow the tips already given and get the temps sorted, the heatmat looks better positioned now, I'm sure she will come good for you.

Best wishes,
 
Susielea said:
You've been given great advice so far and here's a link for a digital thermometer

http://www.livefoods.co.uk/product_info.php?cPath=66&products_id=767

Or you could try looking on ebay.co.uk and search digital thermometers.

Both sell them pretty cheaply and they are really worth the investment.

I personally would offer a feed every 5 to 7 days until she starts eating as trying to feed too often can over stress a nervous feeder. If you follow the tips already given and get the temps sorted, the heatmat looks better positioned now, I'm sure she will come good for you.

Best wishes,
Click to expand...


Two brand new digital thermometers bought, paid, and on their way :D.

And sure - if she hasn't eaten the pinkie tomorrow, I'll remove it and leave her until next feeding day (Friday) and try again.

Thanks again for all the help you guys and gals!
 
You're welcome, but don't forget to keep us posted!! We will be expecting updates!!

Just one other thing, when you next offer her a feed, try doing it around dusk and as suggested cause her as little disturbance as possible. If you need to change her water that day then do it earlier in the day so she has time to settle again before the feeding attempt. Try to keep the lights low and don't forget to use the towel to cover the tank.

Good luck and best wishes,
 
Susielea said:
You're welcome, but don't forget to keep us posted!! We will be expecting updates!!

Just one other thing, when you next offer her a feed, try doing it around dusk and as suggested cause her as little disturbance as possible. If you need to change her water that day then do it earlier in the day so she has time to settle again before the feeding attempt. Try to keep the lights low and don't forget to use the towel to cover the tank.

Good luck and best wishes,
Click to expand...

Don't worry, I'll keep you all posted on what happens :). And I'll follow those tips, thanks!
Is it still ok to move her into her seperate feeding tank next time? I don't want her to ingest substrate. As long as I cover the seperate feeding tank ^^.

Sorry I can't rep you any more, I have to "spread it around" a bit first o_O;;.
 
I would be tempted to leave her in her regular tank until she establishes a good feeding routine. If you're concerned about her ingesting her substrate, you could remove the aspen for a little while and use kitchen roll or newspaper instead.

If you don't want to do that then you could use a small lunchbox size container and pop her and the pink in there and then put that in her tank just off the heatmat. I personally would prefer not to disturb her by moving her but that's just my preference.

Good luck,
 
Sure thing :) I'll feed her in the tank. The Aspen is pretty big so it's unlikely she'll ingest it at her age, but maybe I'll cover the exposed base of the tank with kitchen roll and put the pinkie on that. Thanks for the advice once again!
 
Arby,
Did you do what I said? Sit down, take a deep breath, count to ten (in metric)....

Do they use the metric system in the UK? How do you count to ten in metric?
 
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