Spread the Word to End the Word

[wstphal]

Which words are ok?

Here's my problem...someone is offended by all of these words. Most of them were, at one point, clinical definitions of lower IQ's, just like the word retard. So should people not use ANY word like that?

Obviously that is fairly unrealistic. So why is it OK to offend this group of individuals over there, but not that group over there? Where do you draw the line? Is it JUST the word retard" Or is it going to become ALL minorly offensive words?

I think that's a line each of us needs to draw for ourselves, and educate our children accordingly if we have children. Personally I like "despicable" as a negative adjective to replace some of those other words. YMMV.

 

[tyflier]

I think that's a line each of us needs to draw for ourselves, and educate our children accordingly if we have children. Personally I like "despicable" as a negative adjective to replace some of those other words. YMMV.

Well, that is the point. Every person needs to draw the line for themselves.

And with that said...nobody should be made to feel insincere, phony, "despicable", hateful or angry for using any of those words in a non-invasive and non-threatening manner.

These campaigns are designed to influence people. That's called propoganda. It's frowned upon by those in disagreement with the message and embraced by those in agreement. The problem comes in when people place themselves higher or better morally because of a simple matter of personal taste. The problem is with people acting superior for made up reasons.

Nobody in this thread wants the word used in a hateful way, as a deragatory term for mentally handicapped people. And I don't think you'll find very many people outside of this thread seeking otherwise.

But closed-minded individuals like Wade would have you believe that HIS insincerety is morally better than mine. Closed-minded individuals like Wade would have you believe that if you don't agree with HIS moral standards, than you just aren't a decent person.

Closed-minded, phony, insincere individuals like that are one of the biggest problems we have in America today. It's closed-minded, insincere, phony, lying, connivers that grow up to become fascist dictators, totalitarian rulers, and tyrranical warlords. You know...the type of people that want to bully everyone else in to doing things THEIR way...

But I'm the one that's not a decent person because I don't think I have the right to make that choice for everyone else. Because I believe that every individual has the right to decide for themselves how and when they are going to use words of their own choosing without fear of repercussion, enslavement, or imprisonment...for a word...:shrugs:

 

[wstphal]

And with that said...nobody should be made to feel insincere, phony, "despicable", hateful or angry for using any of those words in a non-invasive and non-threatening manner.

These campaigns are designed to influence people. That's called propoganda. It's frowned upon by those in disagreement with the message and embraced by those in agreement. The problem comes in when people place themselves higher or better morally because of a simple matter of personal taste. The problem is with people acting superior for made up reasons.

I get what you are saying. I think there is a fine line between campaigns to influence people, which are, yes, propaganda, but that don't try to make others feel insincere, phony, etc, and those that do. I once talked to a reformed racist who had been reformed not by being made to feel guilty, but by a chance encounter that lit up his whole attitude in a spotlight that showed that his attitude was stupid, not because the other person told him so, but because the SITUATION showed it wordlessless & the lightbulb went off in his head and he changed in that moment. Many people might never think that the "r word" can hurt, so a campaign that says "It hurts people with intellectual disabilities and their loved ones" could educate without insulting. Parents saying "I know the kids on the playground say that to each other to be mean, but think about how it would feel if they called you that, and maybe you won't want to say it" are not necessarily engaging in propaganda, but in appropriate parental guidance.

But I'm the one that's not a decent person because I don't think I have the right to make that choice for everyone else. Because I believe that every individual has the right to decide for themselves how and when they are going to use words of their own choosing without fear of repercussion, enslavement, or imprisonment...for a word...:shrugs:

You're right in saying none of us have the right to make that choice FOR others. But we can encourage each other to be kind to one another or not. And sometimes when we choose to be severely unkind, there will be repercussions. Those should not be legal, but if someone doesn't like NeoNazi hate speech, they won't hang around someone who spews NeoNazi garbage, and that's as it should be, and if that's a repercussion, that's fine.

I am a huge believer in the First Amendment so I am really, really loath to say there should be any legal repercussions. But I think the First Amendment also respects my right to walk away from listening to speech I find hateful, to turn off the TV or radio if it is spewing speech I find hateful, or to unsubscribe from a newspaper or webfeed that is putting out content I find hateful. I also think the First Amendment protects my right to write a letter to XYZ Cable News saying that I will never watch them again because they ran a piece that was supportive of a NeoNazi cause.

Again, YMMV, and I'm not trying to muzzle your speech. That's your First Amendment right too. I will walk away from hateful speech, or unsubscribe from it, and I will tell others XYZ Cable ran that piece so they can be aware. I will tell people politely "Hey, I find the word 'retard' offensive, please don't use it." Is that propaganda? I don't think so.

 

[wade]

Very good Betsy. It seems so simple. I think most people can understand what you are saying.

 

[diamondlil]

I have no particular part in this argument except to add that I must be a totally insincere and depraved person, because I do change my vocabulary, mode of speech and behaviour to suit who I'm with and the situation I'm in.
A few years ago I had a family friend as a patient on my ward. As per protocol I wasn't directly involved in her care and didn't read her medical notes at all. After she was better and went home she told all our family how she didn't recognise the efficient, authoratative persona I use at work compared to my usual happy-go-lucky character that she's known since I was a teenager. So am I a hypocrit for being the most untidy person I know, at home, and for being totally strict on tidy, efficient organisation at work? I very rarely curse at all, but I do with friends, never at work. I thought that was part of normal human behaviour.

 

[wade]

J9, I don’t mean to hold myself up as some kind of example. I don’t use a lot of profanity and the words I use are not the big ones like the F-bomb. It just happens to not be part of my normal vocabulary. Consequently I don’t have to modify my speech to suit the listener.

The whole point I was trying to make was that if you use the word retard with your friends to imply stupid or clumsy then that is apparently what you think the word means weather you use that word in front of handicapped people or not. Can you use the N word with your white friends and be sincere when you’re with your black friends?

 

[diamondlil]

I wouldn't use the term 'retard' at all myself, or the N word, but depending on the use and context I wouldn't necessarily always find someone else using the terms offensive. Context, situation, intent would all colour my reaction. Kim quite often calls me a retard when I mess up around the horses and forget what I'm supposed to be doing. I know she means it as an affectionate term of abuse towards me, that she's worked with special needs children giving them riding lessons. I know she has no issues around thinking that people with developmental delay are people to be looked down on or abused in any way. If she was using the term to insult someone with special needs I'd be appalled.
Pete calling me a 'pikey' when I'm tanned doesn't offend me, even though it's a very derogatory term towards someone with my romany ancestry. He's not using the term in that way. If he was using the term to insult romanies or gypsies for their lifestyle and culture I'd be really angry. I refer to myself as a pikey, because that's what I am and I'm proud of it, as do a lot of my family.

 

[tyflier]

J9, I don’t mean to hold myself up as some kind of example. I don’t use a lot of profanity and the words I use are not the big ones like the F-bomb. It just happens to not be part of my normal vocabulary. Consequently I don’t have to modify my speech to suit the listener.

The whole point I was trying to make was that if you use the word retard with your friends to imply stupid or clumsy then that is apparently what you think the word means weather you use that word in front of handicapped people or not. Can you use the N word with your white friends and be sincere when you’re with your black friends?

Actually, what you said was that people who curb their speech and manner levels based upon the company they are in are insincere and phony. All the backpedaling in the world won't change that.

Here...let me remind you...

I know people who use one language with one group of friends and a different language with a different group. I think they are the phony insincere types who say and act the way they think they should for different groups

The whole point that I made was that you do the exact same thing. It was proven.

That "joke" you told is filled with stereotypical, offensive, racist garbage. But YOU told it...as a joke. That means 1 of 2 things. Either:

A) You would refrain from telling this joke in certain social situations, which would make your previous posts boldfaced lies, and basically destroy every "point" you tried to make in this thread

OR

B) You are an incredibly rude, arrogant, obnoxious, and offensive hypocrit with a HUGE pile of crow to eat.

Now as I said before, unlike you, I follow the rules and won't call you a name, Wade. I won't stoop as low as you do. However...you only have 2 options, as it really seems quite black and white to me. So which is it? Are you a hypocritical racial bigot or just someone adhering vociferously to a boldfaced lie to prove a false moral superiority?

I'll wait for your answer...

 

[wade]

Chris, do you really believe the stuff you write? Does that really make any sense to you? I'm done here buddy. Beat your head against the wall. I'm glad you didn't stoop to name calling, that certainly would have been beneath you.

 

[tyflier]

Chris, do you really believe the stuff you write? Does that really make any sense to you? I'm done here buddy. Beat your head against the wall. I'm glad you didn't stoop to name calling, that certainly would have been beneath you.

Yes Wade, I really believe what I wrote.

You told a joke on this forum that is racist, offensive and rude. Would you tell that same joke regardless of social situation or would you refrain from telling said joke in certain social situations?

It's really quite simple, Wade. If you WOULD tell that same joke, regaqrdle3ss of your social situation, you are rude, offensive, and a tremendous hypocrit for being so adamant about the use of the word "retard". Racial slurs and stereotypes are FAR more offensive to me than are simple words that could be taken multiple different ways.

On the other hand, if you would REFRAIN from telling that joke in certain social situations, than your previous posts are full of crap and garbage, and you need to step down off your high horse and acknowledge that you were full of it when you wrote that malarkey.

I can't understand why it is so difficult for you to understand such a simple concept as using appropriate language in appropriate situations. If you hadn't gone so far out of your way to try and slander and insult me with your blatant lies and garbage piles of nonsense...I wouldn't be so adamant in proving that you were talking straight out of your hind-end...

And you WERE talking straight out of your hind-end. Trouble is...you're so used to it, you can't even tell which end your crap is coming out of anymore...

Like I said...I have absolutely no use for you or anyone like you. You're worthless to me. I may be an arrogant and argumentative SOB, but at least when I'm shown to be wrong, I can admit it, and I DON'T LIE to prove a non-existent point.

Period.

 

[wstphal]

Why do conversations about the 'r word' turn into fights here? Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[medusacoils]

Why do conversations about the 'r word' turn into fights here? Inquiring minds want to know.

I don't know? For me, its something that impacts my life. I speak from my heart and sometimes I don't get my point across because my emotion gets in the way. Discussing topics that you are emotionally invested in, the way I am about this topic, probably isn't the best thing to do. I can't help it.

I do "try" to be respectful. I don't know if I'm very good at it? :shrugs: I do try though!

Wayne

 

[tyflier]

It's not you, Wayne. You are always respectful, if a bit passionate at times. There's nothing wrong with that.

I always get worked up when people act holier than thou on topics that are purely a matter of opinion. All opinions are equal, and I get really irritated when people toss out insults based on opinions. Typically I fire back, and it gets ugly.

But I don't get angry unless I feel directly insulted or personally attacked. Wade has made me feel that way in 2 different threads over the last week. I try not to disrespect anyone that hasn't disrespected me.

 

[wstphal]

Wayne, if anyone has an "informed" opinion about the "r word" it's the parent of a child with a disability. You are entitled to speak up about this topic you feel passionately about.

 

[Michael823]

I don't know? For me, its something that impacts my life. I speak from my heart and sometimes I don't get my point across because my emotion gets in the way. Discussing topics that you are emotionally invested in, the way I am about this topic, probably isn't the best thing to do. I can't help it.

I do "try" to be respectful. I don't know if I'm very good at it? :shrugs: I do try though!

Wayne

You seem like a great person, and I respect ALL of what you have to say. Sharing your emotions is only right, and it's the emotional aspect that makes hearing the R word so personal for you, which helps other people to understand how real your feelings are about it.