crotalis40741
Nanci said put sexy bangs
ok lets settle it the redneck way, them ones thar is pank snakes and themuns are really pank snakes, lol sorry its late
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Strawberry Genes???
- Thread starter Reptileman81
- Start date
iculatr
NO...WIRE...HANGERS!!!
LOL but theres too many trade names out there...
Reptileman81
Future professional
Hey you got a good laugh out of me lol. Yeah time for bed.
Very true there are to many trade names out there. Most I think are just crazy but Salmon I like and it represents them very well I think.
MysticExotics
(formerly NWHeather)
Susan
Go Ahead, Make My Day!
Sorry, but I couldn't rep you again so soon. I really appreciated the LOL! You made my morning!
What tends to confuse people is not only the multiple names (coral, salmon, bubblegum, neon pink, champagne, etc), but the fact that these are also selectively bred morphs. Not all hypo snows are coral snows and not all coral snows have hypo OR strawberry in them. I hate to say it, but there is more to it than being simply homozygous for either of those two genes. Remember how people would breed bubblegum snows to coral snows to neon snows and end up with not-so-pink snows? If hypo and/or strawberry were the only things involved, since they are alleles like motley and stripe, all of those offspring should be one of those lovely pink morphs. But something got lost when you tried to mix various selectively-bred lines and it took generations of selecting the pinkest of those offspring to get back what was lost. There has to be at least one other gene involved, most likely more. Red factor is probably top of the list, but I really don't know too much about that gene. Looking at JMG's Extreme corns, there is definitely something there that isn't one of the hypo genes but rather one that increases the red. I know the photo they have up of an Extreme ghost shows one that looks like a typical non-pink ghost, so maybe I'm wrong. OR, again, something is missing in the equation in that particular snake that was lost in the cross. I know I would love to talk them about what they've paired with what and how the offspring look!
No matter what the exact genes are that create them, I absolutely LOVE Cupid, my JGM "coral ghost"!
Attachments
Salmon is/was a term for Strawberry Snows (Salmon Snow)... although some people are, now, also using the term Salmon for Ghosts that are Strawberry (Salmon Ghost).
Coral Snows were, originally, those that carried the Hypo gene ... although, also, could have been selectively bred non-Hypos that simply had the "pink look" (different people would use the term for either).
However, this has changed to where, nowadays, people use the term (Coral Snow) for anything from selectively bred (non-hypo), to those with Hypo, to those that are Hypo-Strawberry, to those that are Strawberry.
It seems that the trend is to only label Strawberry Snows with the term "Coral"... but, due to the original use of name "Coral Snow", there are people who still use it for Hypo Snows &/or selectively bred (pink but non-hypo) Snows.
Talk about creating a confusion! The best thing is ask questions... Question any breeder, that you may be considering a purchase from, as to which genetics their Coral Snows carry. Just keep in mind that some sellers/breeders might not know that their Coral Snows may carry Strawberry, without their knowing, since it is possible that they might not be "in the loop" that it was discovered that some "Hypo Coral Snows", from "back when", were actually Strawberry.
When it comes to Coral Ghosts ... I believe this is a term that is solely used for Ghosts with the Strawberry gene.
Otherwise, any selectively bred Ghosts/Aneries, with a lot of pink hues/color, were (still are?) called Pastels ... again, one had to (or would have to) make sure what a breeder actually had/has (whether their "Pastels" = Anery or Ghost <Hypo A>) since the name (Pastel) would/could be used, for either, by different people/breeders.
Edit: With the mention of "Red Factor" (in above post)... I must edit. It seems that Coral Ghost could mean a Ghost carrying "Red Factor" (whatever that, genetically, stems from ). I am not sure if it has been determined, yet, if JMGs "Corals"/"Salmons" are of Strawberry, "Red Factor, or both(?).
Coral Snows were, originally, those that carried the Hypo gene ... although, also, could have been selectively bred non-Hypos that simply had the "pink look" (different people would use the term for either).
However, this has changed to where, nowadays, people use the term (Coral Snow) for anything from selectively bred (non-hypo), to those with Hypo, to those that are Hypo-Strawberry, to those that are Strawberry.
It seems that the trend is to only label Strawberry Snows with the term "Coral"... but, due to the original use of name "Coral Snow", there are people who still use it for Hypo Snows &/or selectively bred (pink but non-hypo) Snows.
Talk about creating a confusion! The best thing is ask questions... Question any breeder, that you may be considering a purchase from, as to which genetics their Coral Snows carry. Just keep in mind that some sellers/breeders might not know that their Coral Snows may carry Strawberry, without their knowing, since it is possible that they might not be "in the loop" that it was discovered that some "Hypo Coral Snows", from "back when", were actually Strawberry.
When it comes to Coral Ghosts ... I believe this is a term that is solely used for Ghosts with the Strawberry gene.
Otherwise, any selectively bred Ghosts/Aneries, with a lot of pink hues/color, were (still are?) called Pastels ... again, one had to (or would have to) make sure what a breeder actually had/has (whether their "Pastels" = Anery or Ghost <Hypo A>) since the name (Pastel) would/could be used, for either, by different people/breeders.
Edit: With the mention of "Red Factor" (in above post)... I must edit. It seems that Coral Ghost could mean a Ghost carrying "Red Factor" (whatever that, genetically, stems from
). I am not sure if it has been determined, yet, if JMGs "Corals"/"Salmons" are of Strawberry, "Red Factor, or both(?).Hypo A - Hypo
Hypo B - Sunkissed
Hypo C - Lava
Hypo D - Ultra
Then we have ....
Hypo E - Christmas?
Hypo F - Strawberry?
Reptileman81
Future professional
Now I dont know how true this list is. If all of these were a form of Hypo then they would all be allies to each other. Plus Christmas is not a true morph just a select line breeding.
In other words you can not breed a Lava to a Strawberry and get all Lava's, all Strawberries, or a combination between the 2.
Now as for the Coral Ghost issue Walter says that there is no Strawberry in a Coral Ghost it is simply a line breed Ghost like a Pastel is. How true this is who knows. I am sure in Walter's stock it is true but in others I am not so sure. I have seen some crazy Ghost labeled Coral. I really think that like Susan I think it was said that some have Strawberry and others dont. Some are line breed while others arent. This is just one of those examples on how "trade names" get thrown around.
Look at Susan's Coral Ghost now that thing really looks like it's got some Strawberry in it. Very very nice snake by the way Susan. Have you breed it at all. Have you proved that there is no Strawberry in it?
Nanci
Alien Lover
Are you sure you're not thinking of Crimson? I only have the 2010 CMG here (at work), which says "It should be noted that a line of "christmas" corns show a close resemblance to strawberries, and appear to be allelic to hypo. Over the next few years it should be possible to determine whether this gene is the same as strawberry, or another new allele at this locus.
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Reptileman81
Future professional
Well then I will have to go and read up on my 2010 CMG. The last I heard about the "Christmas" was in one of Kathy Love's books. That was several years ago.
Reptileman81
Future professional
Yeah I still got to get me a 2011 issue. I plan on picking one up from someone at Daytona.
iculatr
NO...WIRE...HANGERS!!!
iculatr
NO...WIRE...HANGERS!!!
What about all the different types of anery? Pairing two different types of anery will result in all normals. For example, charcoal x cinder will produce normals with 100% hets for both genes. Anery A, Charcoal, Cinder, Lavender, Caramel...none of them are on the same allele.
Tara80
ACR Breeder # 787
I think the problem here, obviously is the definition of 'coral' snow. Most people I know Call any pink snow morph coral, based on the coloration - nothing more.
If this discussion is about the definition of Coral, and we want to define the word 'Coral' as hypo A snow - then cool but you're either going to have to change the way many people out there define coral, or you're just going to have to understand that many, if not most people define coral snows as a snow that exhibits the pink coloration.
Christmas is a separate hypo gene that is allelic to Strawberry and hypo A (with initial test breeding). It's in the 2011 morph guide.
I want to point this out - the research is still very much ongoing with what makes a neon a neon, a salmon a salmon, etc.
It CERTAINLY isn't just strawberry. I know Don has been attempting to muddle through all of this for a while. And Poppycorns has done a wonderful job of condensing and combining these colors to make some gorgeous animals. There clearly is more than 1 or 2 genes in action.
Also, one must note - many of these genes will show through as het. It is believed that both red factor AND strawberry can show themselves when het, in certain morph compounds.
It is also believed that the 'red factor' gene significantly grows in intensity when combined again and again (selective breeding as referred to earlier); more-so than the average color mutation.
I don't think anyone quite knows what is what yet and there are many breeders out there whom have turned this into a project.
Here is a snow I have, on loan from SMR. He's a result of neon and salmon crossing. He's only a yearling and already his colors are popping and the camera doesn't even come CLOSE to showing his true beauty. I'm hoping he's going to be big enough next year for a few pairings to separate out and break down some of his genetics.
They do not need to be allelic to, or share the same locus with, each other.
As for the list, some "old timers" will recognize it.
If you re-read what I wrote, I gave what was the original definition of Coral (Snows that carried Hypo A &/or selectively bred Snows for pink coloration) and what Coral is, nowadays, transitioning into ... or what it is used for. Thus, the necessity to question sellers/breeders as to which genetics their "Coral Snows" carry. I suppose that the same could be argued, for Coral Ghost, but ... admittedly ... I have not heard the term Coral Ghost until JMG's line and, then, in relation to Strawberry. "Back when", pink Ghosts (and Aneries) were referred to as "Pastel".
Exactly.
Anery - Anery A
Charcoal - Anery B
Cinder - Anery C
Then we have ...
Lavender, etc.
Reptileman81
Future professional
I really was not trying to start a debate or argument. I was simply trying to figure out what Coral and Salmon was. As it seems there is not a straight answer for Coral it could be pretty much anything someone wants to call Coral. Though some claim it is Hypo A, but really unless you really know who you are buying from it could just be a pink Snow/Ghost. Then Salmon is the Strawberry gene. That is really what I was looking for as I want to get some Strawberries this year at Daytona to start playing around with in my gene pools.
Susan
Go Ahead, Make My Day!
To answer Josh, I haven't bred Cupid yet as he is a more recent addition and not old/large enough to have bred this year. As for determining if he is a strawberry, how would I go about doing that? Since all I have are hypos in my collection (that I know of) and strawberry and hypo are alleles, any pairing I do will result in a hypo snake no matter which gene or genes I am working with. And I'm sorry, I really can't tell the difference between hypos and strawberrys. And for all I know, I could already have strawberry running rampant in my collection. I usually get bright red hypo hatchlings and I've been sort of been thrown by the odd darker, not so bright and more brownish ones recently when a new breeder has been used.