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Taxes, going up??

Increasing taxes sucks, but tax cuts will not benefit us either. Again, you all do an awful lot of complaining; if any one of you has the answer that will satisfy everyone, feel free to run for public office! I'll vote for you.

I am NOT cut out for public office for many reasons. I do try to write & speak without whining, and I do try to communicate with my public officials regularly on issues that matter to me, including increasing the value my fellow citizens get out of our tax dollars. Please notice, too, I am not asking for a tax cut. I really have issues not with the amount taken out of my pay check, but that I don't see that my fellow citizens get enough benefit out of it.

Stimulus money (my tax dollars) was supposed to create jobs. Where are they? Public assistance programs let in people who are not interested in working while excluding or punishing people who are trying their hardest and are just plain unlucky at present. I don't even mind paying for public assistance programs (aka "welfare") at the current spending level. I just hate seeing people who are genuinely disabled or down on their luck be unable to get it while I see others who are neither getting it.
 
Increasing taxes sucks, but tax cuts will not benefit us either. Again, you all do an awful lot of complaining; if any one of you has the answer that will satisfy everyone, feel free to run for public office! I'll vote for you.

Wow. That's not even close to what this is about. This is SO much more than just whining about taxes. If you can't see the implications and consequences of this... I can't even begin to explain.
First, this is going to cut off all the heads of small time business owners- resulting in even more lost jobs. It has absolutely nothing to do with taxation in general, this has everything to do with socialism.
 
Wow. That's not even close to what this is about. This is SO much more than just whining about taxes. If you can't see the implications and consequences of this... I can't even begin to explain.
First, this is going to cut off all the heads of small time business owners- resulting in even more lost jobs. It has absolutely nothing to do with taxation in general, this has everything to do with socialism.
People leaning to the right in politics have used that word so much and for so many differing reasons lately that I doubt it even has any meaning anymore. It's been reduced to a buzzword used to describe anything that you don't like. If you can't begin to explain why this is bad, then why are you angry about it?

Like I said, raising taxes sucks for everyone, but sometimes it's necessary and unless you're in the IRS you have no idea where your dollars are going and thus no authority to say your tax dollars are being spent appropriately or not. Unemployment and welfare aren't coming out of thin air. Cutting taxes would not help anybody... I'm sorry you have to worry about having money at the end of each month, but cutting taxes would not save you more than one month. It is short-sighted and appeals only to those who are too wealthy for this economy to seriously affect and those who did poorly in high school math.

Now I'm sure there are those of you out there just dying for the chance to jump on me about my age and I'll let you, because it seems it's often the only argument you have against my points lately, but let me at least tell you that I'm not pulling this out of my ass and that I do know what I'm talking about; my father is a senior tax auditor for the city, and I would imagine that he and his major in the subject know just a little bit more than the average citizen about the ramifications and benefits of messing with taxes. But of course, having enough money to see Twilight at the end of the month is far more important than not being homeless with no room in shelters for you at the end of the year.
 
People leaning to the right in politics have used that word so much and for so many differing reasons lately that I doubt it even has any meaning anymore. It's been reduced to a buzzword used to describe anything that you don't like. If you can't begin to explain why this is bad, then why are you angry about it?

Like I said, raising taxes sucks for everyone, but sometimes it's necessary and unless you're in the IRS you have no idea where your dollars are going and thus no authority to say your tax dollars are being spent appropriately or not. Unemployment and welfare aren't coming out of thin air. Cutting taxes would not help anybody... I'm sorry you have to worry about having money at the end of each month, but cutting taxes would not save you more than one month. It is short-sighted and appeals only to those who are too wealthy for this economy to seriously affect and those who did poorly in high school math.

Now I'm sure there are those of you out there just dying for the chance to jump on me about my age and I'll let you, because it seems it's often the only argument you have against my points lately, but let me at least tell you that I'm not pulling this out of my ass and that I do know what I'm talking about; my father is a senior tax auditor for the city, and I would imagine that he and his major in the subject know just a little bit more than the average citizen about the ramifications and benefits of messing with taxes. But of course, having enough money to see Twilight at the end of the month is far more important than not being homeless with no room in shelters for you at the end of the year.


Whoa, where to start here...firstly, you do know what socialism is, don't you? If you can't see the connection between this administration's policies, and the socialistic policies that have ruined other nations, there is not alot of hope for you. There are many many things I don't like, and not all are socialism. "All those people" using that word are using it for a reason.

Your statement about the IRS having any idea where the tax money is being spent, and being the only authority to say what is appropriate spending or not is laughable. For one thing, the tax laws change every single year and are so complicated that even if you call the IRS for help in filing, there is a very good chance that they can give you the wrong information, and will not be held accountable if they do!! They have ABSOLUTELY NO AUTHORITY as to what your tax money is spent on, that is up to the CONGRESS and the SENATE. Please, for the love of Mike, take a few civics classes! The rest of that paragraph is some kind of babble insinuating that a tax cut would not help anybody who is hard working, and something about tax cuts being short sighted and benefitting only rich people and people who can't do math...do you ever actually read what you type?

And that last paragraph just cracks me up! You are an expert on the ramifications of tax hikes on the private and business sector because your father is a government employee! That is a hoot!! Your father (while probably a very nice man) is a tax auditor who works for the government. He most likely has never owned or operated a small business, or been employed in the private sector. That tells me that he has no experiance in these fields, and has no clue what kind of damage a tax hike can do to the private sector. The types of problems that all these new taxes WILL CAUSE that was initially stated in the OP most likely will create even more homelessness and unemployment than there is now. For some of us, having money in our pockets at the end of the month does not mean whether or not we see Twilight. It can mean keeping our houses, or cars, or not having to apply for foodstamps....

But now that we know where you get your opinions from, the pieces are definately falling into place.
 
People leaning to the right in politics have used that word so much and for so many differing reasons lately that I doubt it even has any meaning anymore. It's been reduced to a buzzword used to describe anything that you don't like. ...
Not just anything, the death of liberty! And so you understand the meaning of socialism.

socialism said:
so·cial·ism
 /ˈsoʊ
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ʃəˌlɪz
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əm/ Show Spelled[soh-shuh-liz-uh
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m]
–noun
(in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles.
If there is one thing DC is good at it's imperfect implementation. :grin01:
collectivism said:
col·lec·tiv·ism

 /kəˈlɛk
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təˌvɪz
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əm/ Show Spelled[kuh-lek-tuh-viz-uh
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m]
–noun
the political principle of centralized social and economic control
This sounds eerily familiar. Oh yea I remember now ... control of the banks, control of auto manufacturing, control of healthcare, and now the control of more of the personal wealth of US citizens.

Seems to meet the criteria!
 
Also, I don't claim to be an expert. But MY background that has shaped my opinion on matters such as this is that my husband and I own and operate a small business, and have done so for 23 years.
We would like to employ people, but can't due to the laws and taxes already in place.
 
Yeah.... Quite honestly, the spectre of working harder and harder to have more and more money yanked out of my wallet to pay increasing taxes was a big factor in my deciding to retire this year. Connie and I were just busting our butts and handing over a big chunk of money to the government for our efforts every year, and it appeared it was definitely going to get worse over time. So we opted out. If we did not plan ahead well enough and run out of money, then heck, we'll try the welfare thing 10 or more years down the road. If the USA still exists then, of course. Depends on how long the government can keep on spending money they don't have before the entire deck of cards collapses. Eventually the USA will be owned by offshore creditors (China), if that isn't the case already.

The government's solution is to instead of tightening their own belts, to squeeze the tax paying public (which gets smaller all of the time with people losing their jobs, or else taking early retirement) implying that it is OUR fault, or else just get the Federal Reserve to just print up more paper money. Unfortunately, if past history is any guide, governments have never really had the will power to save the country they "serve" by doing what is best for that country instead of what is best for the people IN government.
 
Yeah.... Quite honestly, the spectre of working harder and harder to have more and more money yanked out of my wallet to pay increasing taxes was a big factor in my deciding to retire this year. Connie and I were just busting our butts and handing over a big chunk of money to the government for our efforts every year, and it appeared it was definitely going to get worse over time. So we opted out. If we did not plan ahead well enough and run out of money, then heck, we'll try the welfare thing 10 or more years down the road. If the USA still exists then, of course. Depends on how long the government can keep on spending money they don't have before the entire deck of cards collapses. Eventually the USA will be owned by offshore creditors (China), if that isn't the case already.

The government's solution is to instead of tightening their own belts, to squeeze the tax paying public (which gets smaller all of the time with people losing their jobs, or else taking early retirement) implying that it is OUR fault, or else just get the Federal Reserve to just print up more paper money. Unfortunately, if past history is any guide, governments have never really had the will power to save the country they "serve" by doing what is best for that country instead of what is best for the people IN government.

The bolded part of your post, Rich, is the BIGGEST problem with our tax system now. Instead of offering incentives to do well, there is actually a "dis-incentive" to do well. If you do well in your business, do you get to "bask" in some of your hard-earned work? NO! You have to pay MORE! Why in the world would someone want to work hard and succeed and then pay upwards of 40% in taxes?

THIS, is where cutting taxes comes in to play, T.R. Businesses that do well STILL pay taxes, NOT raising their taxes will allow for them to expand, hire more employees and do even better in the future which leads to a "virtuous circle" where the company and its employees are happy AND successful. CUTTING taxes could give them incentive to expand into other areas that could possibly benefit NOT ONLY the company, but its employees as well. ON TOP of this, the more employees the company has, the more TAXES are actually going into the the IRS coffers!!! Imagine that!!!

As it is today, companies are stuck in a "vicious circle" making money, being taxed, laying off employees... making less money, being taxed ANYWAY (and with THIS administration RAISING TAXES IN A POOR ECONOMY), making less money, laying off employees...

And before someone spouts off about it, PROFIT is NOT a bad word! Profit gives companies options to hire/expand/R&D etc. :) Sure, there's some "play money" involved in "profit", but isn't that an incentive for doing well and hiring happy employees?

All that being said, I really am starting to think that there are some elements out there that are HAPPY to do away with businesses and free-enterprise in America... and wants everyone to simply suckle at the teat of big government.
 
Whoa, where to start here...firstly, you do know what socialism is, don't you? If you can't see the connection between this administration's policies, and the socialistic policies that have ruined other nations, there is not alot of hope for you. There are many many things I don't like, and not all are socialism. "All those people" using that word are using it for a reason.

Your statement about the IRS having any idea where the tax money is being spent, and being the only authority to say what is appropriate spending or not is laughable. For one thing, the tax laws change every single year and are so complicated that even if you call the IRS for help in filing, there is a very good chance that they can give you the wrong information, and will not be held accountable if they do!! They have ABSOLUTELY NO AUTHORITY as to what your tax money is spent on, that is up to the CONGRESS and the SENATE. Please, for the love of Mike, take a few civics classes! The rest of that paragraph is some kind of babble insinuating that a tax cut would not help anybody who is hard working, and something about tax cuts being short sighted and benefitting only rich people and people who can't do math...do you ever actually read what you type?

And that last paragraph just cracks me up! You are an expert on the ramifications of tax hikes on the private and business sector because your father is a government employee! That is a hoot!! Your father (while probably a very nice man) is a tax auditor who works for the government. He most likely has never owned or operated a small business, or been employed in the private sector. That tells me that he has no experiance in these fields, and has no clue what kind of damage a tax hike can do to the private sector. The types of problems that all these new taxes WILL CAUSE that was initially stated in the OP most likely will create even more homelessness and unemployment than there is now. For some of us, having money in our pockets at the end of the month does not mean whether or not we see Twilight. It can mean keeping our houses, or cars, or not having to apply for foodstamps....

But now that we know where you get your opinions from, the pieces are definately falling into place.
I understand exactly what the word socialism means, and not a bit of this government's policies point to it in my opinion. All they seem to do is build up on policies previous administrations (including, shockingly, republican ones!!!) in ways that are necessary now.

Do you actually read what I type? Because it seems every time I jump into these conversations, your response is always "LOL U HAVE NO IDEA WUT UR TALKING ABOUT, STUPID, GET OUTTA HERe" with no actual points to argue against me, just endless ad hominem. I get the feeling you mostly just skim through, decide it's not something you agree with, then spend several minutes attacking my age/my parents/my monetary status/my state of employment, whatever the flavor of the day happens to be. If you'd like to have an actual debate about this subject I'd be glad to, but I'm quickly losing my patience with your current tactics of just dismissing everything I say as being stupid, and if you keep it up I'm afraid I'm going to discontinue indulging you in the ability to do so.

My father has never worked the private sector? What do you know of my father? Do you live with him? Are you a close friend? Who are you to tell me about what kind of experiance [sic] my own father has and with what? I never said tax increases were good, in fact I've prefaced every statement I've made thus far by saying they don't make life any easier for anyone involved. But tax cuts will not help either, and the only way you might see them as some mana from heaven is by being short-sighted and having very little comprehension of what the purpose of taxes is to begin with. (HINT: They are not just fees on your happiness because the gov. is a bunch of meanies who hate that you have money.)
 
I understand exactly what the word socialism means, and not a bit of this government's policies point to it in my opinion. All they seem to do is build up on policies previous administrations (including, shockingly, republican ones!!!) in ways that are necessary now.

Do you actually read what I type? Because it seems every time I jump into these conversations, your response is always "LOL U HAVE NO IDEA WUT UR TALKING ABOUT, STUPID, GET OUTTA HERe" with no actual points to argue against me, just endless ad hominem. I get the feeling you mostly just skim through, decide it's not something you agree with, then spend several minutes attacking my age/my parents/my monetary status/my state of employment, whatever the flavor of the day happens to be. If you'd like to have an actual debate about this subject I'd be glad to, but I'm quickly losing my patience with your current tactics of just dismissing everything I say as being stupid, and if you keep it up I'm afraid I'm going to discontinue indulging you in the ability to do so.

My father has never worked the private sector? What do you know of my father? Do you live with him? Are you a close friend? Who are you to tell me about what kind of experiance [sic] my own father has and with what? I never said tax increases were good, in fact I've prefaced every statement I've made thus far by saying they don't make life any easier for anyone involved. But tax cuts will not help either, and the only way you might see them as some mana from heaven is by being short-sighted and having very little comprehension of what the purpose of taxes is to begin with. (HINT: They are not just fees on your happiness because the gov. is a bunch of meanies who hate that you have money.)

I don't think you know what socialism means. There has been a takeover of healthcare and auto manufacturing and control of the banks. Up until now those have been PRIVATE SECTOR areas. The government has no business enforcing rules on ANY of these things, but it is happening. The government is supposed to defend the borders, which is something it not only is not doing, but it is trying to sue states that are trying to do the feds job.

Your words here, "unless you're in the IRS you have no idea where your dollars are going and thus have no authority to say your tax dollars are being spent appropriately or not". My answer to the first part of this is whatever makes you think that the IRS knows where your dollars are going? The IRS is there to collect taxes, that is all. Taxes and laws are voted on by the House, and the Senate. The IRS does NOT make policy. They have no idea where it is being spent. My answer to the second part is that you state that unless someone is employed by the IRS, they have no authority to say whether or not their money is being spent appropriately or not. You mean unless you are an IRS worker, you have no right to an opinion?? Like I said before, please take a civics course so you can learn how the government works.

Your words again, "cutting taxes would not help anybody...I'm sorry you have to worry about having money at the end of the month, but cutting taxes would not save you more than one month".
My answer, how do you know that cutting taxes would not help anybody? How can you tell the person who has just lost his job because his company can no longer afford to pay him (because of high taxes) that cutting taxes would not help anybody? What about all those people I would like to hire, but due to taxes and laws I can't. I personally do not have to worry about having money at the end of the month, but many people do. If you have nothing at the end of the month, and are just getting by as it is, a tax increase means you will lose your house. About "cutting taxes would not save you more than one month"...one month of what?

Your words, "It is short-sighted and appeals only to those who are too weathy for this economy to seriously affect and those who did poorly in high school math". My answer, So you are pretty much saying that the tax increase will only affect the "rich" and the stupid. Have you read the first post? For one example, EVERYONE has to pay for health insurance, and those that get it from their work will have to pay taxes on it as though it were income. How is that affecting the "rich"?

Your words, "My father is senior tax auditor for the city and I would imagine that he and his major in the subject know just a little more than the average citizen about the ramifications and benefits of messing with taxes". My answer, a tax auditor for the city is not private sector. He works for government, and his salary is paid for by the government (aka the citizens of this country). I was not aware that "tax auditor" was a major in any subject, but that is besides the point. I only know of your father what you have told me, that he is a tax auditor. I do not have to know him or be a close friend to know that he works for the government. He has never owned a small business, and has no clue how one operates. He knows how to read tax forms, and punish people who don't comply with the tax laws. That is his job. He does not hire people to work for him, and he does not have to let people go because his business can no longer afford to pay them.

I know the purpose of taxes, I have read the Constitution. I know that Healthcare, control of banks and the auto industry, and numerous other things are really not what the founders of this country had in mind.
 
I don't think you know what socialism means. There has been a takeover of healthcare and auto manufacturing and control of the banks. Up until now those have been PRIVATE SECTOR areas. The government has no business enforcing rules on ANY of these things, but it is happening. The government is supposed to defend the borders, which is something it not only is not doing, but it is trying to sue states that are trying to do the feds job.
Those industries would've crashed and burned without government intervention. If you think the economy is bad now, you can't even begin to imagine the destruction to our already shaky economics if those industries had gone down.
Your words here, "unless you're in the IRS you have no idea where your dollars are going and thus have no authority to say your tax dollars are being spent appropriately or not". My answer to the first part of this is whatever makes you think that the IRS knows where your dollars are going? The IRS is there to collect taxes, that is all. Taxes and laws are voted on by the House, and the Senate. The IRS does NOT make policy. They have no idea where it is being spent. My answer to the second part is that you state that unless someone is employed by the IRS, they have no authority to say whether or not their money is being spent appropriately or not. You mean unless you are an IRS worker, you have no right to an opinion?? Like I said before, please take a civics course so you can learn how the government works.
I only picked the IRS because I couldn't think off the top of my head which department exactly was responsible for directing the funds generated by taxes. Of course you're entitled to an opinion; that doesn't mean your opinion has any bearing on reality. I may be of the opinion that the sky is green, but it will still be blue. You don't know where your taxes are going, is my point, and thus can't accurately whinge about whether they are being used correctly or not.
Your words again, "cutting taxes would not help anybody...I'm sorry you have to worry about having money at the end of the month, but cutting taxes would not save you more than one month".
My answer, how do you know that cutting taxes would not help anybody? How can you tell the person who has just lost his job because his company can no longer afford to pay him (because of high taxes) that cutting taxes would not help anybody? What about all those people I would like to hire, but due to taxes and laws I can't. I personally do not have to worry about having money at the end of the month, but many people do. If you have nothing at the end of the month, and are just getting by as it is, a tax increase means you will lose your house. About "cutting taxes would not save you more than one month"...one month of what?
Cutting taxes wouldn't get him his job back. And I'd like you to tell me that English is not your first language, because otherwise if you had trouble deciphering what I meant by that last sentence, it may be time to take a refresher course. Let's put it in context, shall we? If the previous sentence discussed worrying about having enough funds at the end of the month... and the following sentence discussed not saving you more than [that] one month... Hmm...
Your words, "It is short-sighted and appeals only to those who are too weathy for this economy to seriously affect and those who did poorly in high school math". My answer, So you are pretty much saying that the tax increase will only affect the "rich" and the stupid. Have you read the first post? For one example, EVERYONE has to pay for health insurance, and those that get it from their work will have to pay taxes on it as though it were income. How is that affecting the "rich"?
And as long as we're on the subject of misunderstanding clear English... No, a tax increase will NOT affect only the rich and the "stupid". Those are just the only people to which a tax cut seems to make sense.
Your words, "My father is senior tax auditor for the city and I would imagine that he and his major in the subject know just a little more than the average citizen about the ramifications and benefits of messing with taxes". My answer, a tax auditor for the city is not private sector. He works for government, and his salary is paid for by the government (aka the citizens of this country). I was not aware that "tax auditor" was a major in any subject, but that is besides the point. I only know of your father what you have told me, that he is a tax auditor. I do not have to know him or be a close friend to know that he works for the government. He has never owned a small business, and has no clue how one operates. He knows how to read tax forms, and punish people who don't comply with the tax laws. That is his job. He does not hire people to work for him, and he does not have to let people go because his business can no longer afford to pay them.
1. Yes he has owned a small business, but thank you once again for telling me more about my own father.
2. "Tax auditor" is not a major, you're right, but you know what is? "Accounting"? "Economics"? I'm sure you've heard of those.
3. He hires people all the time, and he had to lay off several people recently because there were simply not enough funds to support them. He was also recently "promoted" (read; given the responsibilities of those he had to lay off) but his pay has been downgraded to keep him on.

Please stop trying to tell me about my own blood, it's just making you look ridiculous.
I know the purpose of taxes, I have read the Constitution. I know that Healthcare, control of banks and the auto industry, and numerous other things are really not what the founders of this country had in mind.
The founding fathers of this country would have also balked at the idea of giving black people the same rights as white people, and women for that matter. I really could care less what people imagine the founding fathers would think about things that were not even a blip in their imaginations in the 18th century, because in the end it is all imagination.
 
Of course you're entitled to an opinion; that doesn't mean your opinion has any bearing on reality. I may be of the opinion that the sky is green, but it will still be blue. You don't know where your taxes are going, is my point, and thus can't accurately whinge about whether they are being used correctly or not.

But this is OUR government. Read the Declaration of Independence. Of course we are entitled to an opinion on where our tax money goes. And we are entitled to KNOW where it goes so our opinion can be an informed one.

Do me a favor; read my posts before you assume I am a conservative who wants taxes cuts to favor the rich. I said several times, and will say again,

I would be willing to pay more taxes if I saw my fellow citizens benefiting from those taxes.

Right now I see the government piling on more taxes that will hurt us instead of looking for places to cut spending. Saying that doesn't mean I want unemployment benefits to be cut off for the long term unemployed. I don't. I want Congress to offset those benefits, WHICH ARE NEEDED, with saving money somewhere else.

And the best answer to homelessness is JOBS that pay decently so people can put a roof over their own heads, not homeless shelters.

You can think I am just a greedy Republican, but at least I've tried to make my position clear.
 
... Like I said, raising taxes sucks for everyone, but sometimes it's necessary and unless you're in the IRS you have no idea where your dollars are going and thus no authority to say your tax dollars are being spent appropriately or not. Unemployment and welfare aren't coming out of thin air.
Or maybe reading helps. Please explain to me how DC using our tax dollars in underwriting billions for things like Brazilian oil exploration helps unemployment or welfare or any American for that matter.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203863204574346610120524166.html

Cutting taxes would not help anybody... I'm sorry you have to worry about having money at the end of each month, but cutting taxes would not save you more than one month. It is short-sighted and appeals only to those who are too wealthy for this economy to seriously affect and those who did poorly in high school math. ...
Tax cuts coupled with spending cuts long term would help most Americans and businesses. Your statement about shortsightedness is kind of well shortsighted. Tax and spend and raising a socialist welfare state is a proven failed path. Ask Greece, and Spain and Portugal are not far behind in asking the rest of Europe for bailouts. I must have done awful in math because I was taught that if I didn't have money to spend then I shouldn't be spending money. :shrugs:

The US did not get to be a world super power both militarily and economically via socialism and massive fedgov control. But we will surly end up like Greece if we keep letting the socialist agenda guide us down the wrong path to a massive dependent welfare state where the gov is expected to support more and more.

I will end with a couple quotes for you.

your namesake said:
Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people.
your namesake said:
It is difficult to make our material condition better by the best law, but it is easy enough to ruin it by bad laws.
 
Teddy, Pepper, and Lexie, you are quick to anger and have a hair trigger. You expect insult where there was none intended and battle opponents who are on your side. Sometimes I think you would do well to read carefully and consider what has been said before you read carefully and consider what you are saying. Sometimes you speak boldly about topics of which you are not very well informed.

And the best answer to homelessness is JOBS that pay decently so people can put a roof over their own heads, not homeless shelters.

Betsy, that is wise and profound. Are you sure you are not cut out for public office?


Bottom line, I believe is that many of us feel like money sent to the gov is money wasted. It will either go to nonsense not needed programs or will be used to line the pockets of the politicians who are already pocketing more than their share of our money. I believe that many of us would be fine with taxes if they were spent in a reasonable manner. Quit trying to solve the world problems and start solving some of our own. Get rid of career politicians who care more about their jobs than they do the people they represent. Solve this oil problem and quite sending our money to Sandtown. It is not hard to come up with a quick list that the majority will agree with.

I personally am fed up with government that continually asks for more but produces less. No business can survive with that attitude nor could any individual. Why does no one in DC understand that?
 
Another thought. I don't know how many people are familiar with the term NIMBY. It is pronounced just like it is spelled. I stands for Not In My Back Yard. It is a term for people how are in favor of Nuclear Reactors as long as they are in other peoples back yard. People who hate unemployment insurance unless they are unemployed. Hate buying oil from ragheads but don't want off shore drilling on their coast. You get the idea.

At some point people are going to have to realize that if you want to reduce taxes you are going to have to reduce spending. Like it or not, some of your favorite programs are going to have to be cut. If we can't all come to understand that then it will never happen. If you are not will to give up some of the government functions that are important to you, why do you suppose others should be glad to give up theirs?

Case in point. I have a good friend who hates big government. Hates gov bail outs. Hates any kind of gov give away programs. I mean this guy has been beating this drum for years and years. "If the gov doesn't stop this kind of thing we will all be in the toilet." Last week he was telling me that he was applying for one of the gov bailout type programs. When I hit him up about it he said "well everyone else is getting theirs, I better get mine while the getting is good".

If you and I are not willing to bite the bullet, who will? If you expect the gov to butter your bread, who will be providing the butter? Not me. You? NIMBY.
 
Teddy, Pepper, and Lexie, you are quick to anger and have a hair trigger. You expect insult where there was none intended and battle opponents who are on your side. Sometimes I think you would do well to read carefully and consider what has been said before you read carefully and consider what you are saying. Sometimes you speak boldly about topics of which you are not very well informed.



Betsy, that is wise and profound. Are you sure you are not cut out for public office?


Bottom line, I believe is that many of us feel like money sent to the gov is money wasted. It will either go to nonsense not needed programs or will be used to line the pockets of the politicians who are already pocketing more than their share of our money. I believe that many of us would be fine with taxes if they were spent in a reasonable manner. Quit trying to solve the world problems and start solving some of our own. Get rid of career politicians who care more about their jobs than they do the people they represent. Solve this oil problem and quite sending our money to Sandtown. It is not hard to come up with a quick list that the majority will agree with.

I personally am fed up with government that continually asks for more but produces less. No business can survive with that attitude nor could any individual. Why does no one in DC understand that?
Not sure how I'm being hot-headed? I felt I was answering pretty calmly. Yes to everything but "Quit trying to solve the world problems and start solving some of our own." While we shouldn't be at the WORLD POLICE stage we are right now, having a concern for and lending a helping hand to other nations when we find it necessary is how you make alliances and gain respect. Isolationism has been proven time and again to be a terrible way of going about things.
 
Well actually Lexie, that is not quite true. Most of the people who would like to see us in hell right now are people we have "helped out".

You may not remember the "Cold War" but we saved the Russian's ass in WWII. How did that work out?
 
Well actually Lexie, that is not quite true. Most of the people who would like to see us in hell right now are people we have "helped out".

You may not remember the "Cold War" but we saved the Russian's ass in WWII. How did that work out?
Actually, IIRC, we kinda left them hanging while the German troops led an assault on Russia because we were preparing to lead an attack on the western front, and Russia called BS on our only being allied when we wanted their help, and not when they wanted ours, and basically took their ball and went home.

And speaking of WWII, we helped Japan rebuild itself after the end of the war, and now they are our allies.
 
Lowering taxes wouldn't get him his job back. And I'd like you to tell me that English is not your first language, because otherwise if you had trouble deciphering what I meant by that last sentence, it may be time to take a refresher course. Let's put it in context, shall we? If the previous sentence discussed worrying about having enough funds at the end of the month... and the following sentence discussed not saving you more than [that] one month... Hmm...

And like I said before, if a company is just making it, and is faced with layoffs, a tax cut may very well preserve a job or 2 that would have been cut otherwise. A tax cut is money that does not have to be sent out, and can therefore be spent on other things. If you have $20 in your wallet that you don't have to give to government, then you have $20 that you can spend elsewhere. Easy concept, no?

And as long as we're on the subject of misunderstanding clear English... No, a tax increase will NOT affect only the rich and the "stupid". Those are just the only people to which a tax cut seems to make sense.

Do you mean that it doesn't make sense for normal hardworking people to keep more of what they earn?

1. Yes he has owned a small business, but thank you once again for telling me more about my own father.
2. "Tax auditor" is not a major, you're right, but you know what is? "Accounting"? "Economics"? I'm sure you've heard of those.
3. He hires people all the time, and he had to lay off several people recently because there were simply not enough funds to support them. He was also recently "promoted" (read; given the responsibilities of those he had to lay off) but his pay has been downgraded to keep him on.

Please stop trying to tell me about my own blood, it's just making you look ridiculous.

You are right. I know about as much about being a government employee as....well...you know about running a small business!! I would love to know how someone goes from running a business to working for the government, sounds like a racket I would love to get in on!
If the city government is his "boss", and he hires and fires people all the time, who makes the decision about who to let go and why? Just curious...if he answers to a higher authority (the city), does he just hire and fire who they tell him to, or does he actually try to make ends meet himself?

The founding fathers of this country would have also balked at the idea of giving black people the same rights as white people, and women for that matter. I really could care less what people imagine the founding fathers would think about things that were not even a blip in their imaginations in the 18th century, because in the end it is all imagination.

You are right about that as well. Many of today's issues were not issues back then. However, government is clearly overstepping its bounds. Every year they write literally thousands of new laws, just to look like they are doing something. And these laws chip away at our freedom.
One law that congress has enacted that has really hurt my business is something called the "lead law". We own a bike shop. Congress in its infinite wisdom decided that our children need to be protected from lead, so every single item that anyone 12 and under uses must be lead tested. That includes bicycles. Now I personally have never seen a child sucking on a bike tire, and children don't sleep with their bikes,..most of the time bikes stay in the garage. As a direct result of this law, we have seen the largest price increase in our product ever since we opened 23 years ago. A child's bike that used to retail for $120 is now $170 due to this law. We also face federal charges if we sell a bike with 26" tires to the parent of a child under the age of 13. Just another instance of congress taking away our freedom for our own good. Yay.
 
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