Tessera Club!! Post Yours Too!!

[ShenziSixaxis]

Ooo! It's my turn!

I just got this little girl yesterday! Meet Pug!

Whoa, do the 'checkers' on all tessies go to the edge of the belly like that? I never noticed before.

 

[Nanci]

I'm so glad that that rumor was unfounded! Hi Don!! Gartersnake is doing great, I love him, and thank you very, very, very, very much!!!!!

 

[ecreipeoj]

I'm so glad that that rumor was unfounded! Hi Don!! Gartersnake is doing great, I love him, and thank you very, very, very, very much!!!!!

Shall we start a rumor that Tessera are Garter hybrids or has that one been brought up already?

Not many Corn Snakes come along that I am impressed with.

I like Gartersnake.

 

[Outcast]

Shall we start a rumor that Tessera are Garter hybrids or has that one been brought up already?

Not many Corn Snakes come along that I am impressed with.

I like Gartersnake.

It has been debated before... It was actually a very interesting debate.

I am hoping that I can take some of my tax refund, if I have any after catching up on bills, and making at least a down payment on a Tessera... though I doubt I will be able to.

 

[ecreipeoj]

Uhhhhmmm, Don who?

If you mean Don SODERBERG, I don't know how or why you'd say that, since I bred Tessera to Tessera only one time in my life (last year)? This is one of the most genetically successful mutations I've ever worked with. Of the 14 eggs I hatched in that sole pairing of Tessera to Tessera, all but one were perfectly healthy. Only one other egg never hatched, but it was discolored the day it was laid. How is that high mortality? If you saw a citation of this falsehood somewhere, please, link us. If it was a rumor you heard somewhere, I urge you to consider not repeating things until you verify their authenticity.

Thank you for letting us know your results with a Tessera X Tessera breeding.

I know that KJ bred Tessera to Tessera for the first time in 2009. I don't know what the mortality rate was, but it was just one clutch of eggs. He surely repeated that pairing in 2010, but I'm unaware of his results (or if he did more than one Tessera x Tessera pairing). Let's say he did. How could anyone draw a conclusion such as the one you cited - from seeing only three pairings? What if incubation was deficient, etc.? And in case it falsely appears like I'm desperate to cover-up being busted in a lie (certainly not the case here), why would I make a statement only two years and one clutch of eggs into a new mutation, by essentially saying, "please, don't buy Tesseras cuz the gene mutation is lethal"? I don't think anyone could make that statement until they have hatched at least 20 clutches of eggs. There cannot be more than three or four clutches ever hatched in the entire world. If high mortality is observed after 20 clutches, I'll be the first to stand up and make such a declaration.

KJ should post his results on this subject so everybody has more information.

Sorry for the sharp response, but ya touched a nerve with this. If you can find a post where I said such a thing, I'm outta here. I post on forums less than ten times a year (and that is the aggregate between all three main corn chat forums). You could paste all of a year's postings from me on one sheet of paper. It should not be difficult to find all ten of those (probably more like five) to show us where I said that.

Again, I submit that whether fertility was bad or good, nobody can make such a declaration from hatching just one clutch of eggs - in ANY mutation project.

Don

Well, I am glade to hear from Don S on any of the three main corn chat forums. If nothing else, I would like to thank smallet for causing this to happen. I need a public affairs representitive, can I hire you?

It should be noted when talking to Don that tessera x tessera usually results in a high mortality rate in the clutch. Supporting the paint horse theory mentioned above.

Do yourself a favor and explain. It is easy, just tell the truth.

 

[SickPyth7]

Justin,
To be honest with you, I tried like hell at one time to get on Boa and Python forums and really explain what they were really seeing genetically, but a few years ago, they had many of the morphs identified, but really didn’t have a clue how they were getting them.

The egos in the Boa and Python worlds were too big for me, and they ran me off, and I left willingly. They are slowly but surely figuring it out. I haven’t looked in for quite some time now. I got tired of breeding rabbits and chickens, and needing a warehouse for my Boids anyway, so I switched completely to Corns. You can apply Corn Snake SOLUTIONS we have discovered to the genetics of Boas and Pythons, and they work.

Super, and T+ are Boa and Python World Jargon, that are just HYPE, for Homo dominant mutants and Hypo mutants, plain and simple. I actually do not have a problem with Super, with my Boa background, but I know what it means. It doesn’t mean they are Super Special, they are just a homo co-dominant Mutant, with a different het phenotype, just like our Diffused gene, well sometimes.

Lets use Salmon Boas as an example for Het Salmon. You have never heard anybody talk this way, because most people don’t know the basics, but some of us lowly Corn Snake Breeders are getting pretty good at it. If you breed a Salmon (het Salmon, one Salmon gene and one Normal gene. They are actually het Salmon, Normals, just like Ultramels are Het Ultra and Amel, like Striped Motleys are het Striped and Motley and now Strawberry/Hypos are het Hypo/Straw. Het only means that the genes are different at that locus. Homo means they are the same at that locus.

A Corn Snake het Amel is Het Amel and Normal at the Amel locus. A Salmon boa het Amel, can be Het Salmon and Amel or Homo Salmon and het Amel. As far as I can tell, a het Salmon and homo Salmon look the like the same Salmon phenotype, because it is a dominant and not co-dominant. Phenotype means the way a morph looks. Genotype means its genetic make up.

If you get a hold of a copy of the Cornsnake Morph Guide, and read it enough all of a sudden, it will click in your head and you will have it. It is written for the beginner and the advanced, so his approach may seem odd, but how do you explain simple Corn Snake genetics to those who are just learning. I think he has been trying different approaches and is far better at explaining it than I am.

Thank you Joe. I guess I've just been taught differently, I still have alot to learn

Uhhhhmmm, Don who?

If you mean Don SODERBERG, I don't know how or why you'd say that, since I bred Tessera to Tessera only one time in my life (last year)? This is one of the most genetically successful mutations I've ever worked with. Of the 14 eggs I hatched in that sole pairing of Tessera to Tessera, all but one were perfectly healthy. Only one other egg never hatched, but it was discolored the day it was laid. How is that high mortality? If you saw a citation of this falsehood somewhere, please, link us. If it was a rumor you heard somewhere, I urge you to consider not repeating things until you verify their authenticity. If I did say this in a forum (uhhh, Don seldom posts ANYwhere), I'll check into the asylum for a brain transplant. It's not outside the realm of possibility for me to forget I said something, but in so much as I've only hatched one clutch of eggs from Tessera X Tessera, I don't know anyone qualified to make such a statement -- and as new as Tesseras are -- I don't know anyone that could make such a statement.

I know that KJ bred Tessera to Tessera for the first time in 2009. I don't know what the mortality rate was, but it was just one clutch of eggs. He surely repeated that pairing in 2010, but I'm unaware of his results (or if he did more than one Tessera x Tessera pairing). Let's say he did. How could anyone draw a conclusion such as the one you cited - from seeing only three pairings? What if incubation was deficient, etc.? And in case it falsely appears like I'm desperate to cover-up being busted in a lie (certainly not the case here), why would I make a statement only two years and one clutch of eggs into a new mutation, by essentially saying, "please, don't buy Tesseras cuz the gene mutation is lethal"? I don't think anyone could make that statement until they have hatched at least 20 clutches of eggs. There cannot be more than three or four clutches ever hatched in the entire world. If high mortality is observed after 20 clutches, I'll be the first to stand up and make such a declaration.

Sorry for the sharp response, but ya touched a nerve with this. If you can find a post where I said such a thing, I'm outta here. I post on forums less than ten times a year (and that is the aggregate between all three main corn chat forums). You could paste all of a year's postings from me on one sheet of paper. It should not be difficult to find all ten of those (probably more like five) to show us where I said that.

Again, I submit that whether fertility was bad or good, nobody can make such a declaration from hatching just one clutch of eggs - in ANY mutation project.

Don

Thank you Don for clearing that up cause my jaw almost shattered on the floor after ready the previous mortality posts

 

[Outcast]

Thank you Don for clearing that up cause my jaw almost shattered on the floor after ready the previous mortality posts

I am going to have to thank Don for clearing up that stuff too. I was going to be very upset if it were true.

 

[Kethryanne]

Re: smallet's. Comment regarding high mortality rate. It appears that we had been misinformed and thank you very much for the clarification. As to where I got the information it was somewhere on the Internet and I can not remember where exactly.

 

[SODERBERGD]

Jealousy . . .

Re: smallet's. Comment regarding high mortality rate. It appears that we had been misinformed and thank you very much for the clarification. As to where I got the information it was somewhere on the Internet and I can not remember where exactly.

Many times, the premeditated misinformation is geared toward scuttling a morph. If someone has a beef with the discoverer of a mutation or is jealous that they don't have one, they misquote others OR just flat out make up lies to discredit the breeder or the morph. Propaganda is a proven tool in misdirecting people. Unchallenged rumors can become fact, since perception is a stronger reality than reality itself. It doesn't matter what a thing is if people decide to believe otherwise. If not for many special friends that monitor the forums for me, runaway rumors like bloodred corns don't eat or breed well can alter the value of the morphs. In the past 15 years, we have outcrossed the bloodreds (aka: diffused whatevers) to the point of making them better eaters than many non-mutant morphs. Except for the seemingly impossible task of making Sunkissed mutants human tolerant, all traits can be altered through polygenics (essentially, selective breeding. In this case, the genetic actions that cleaned up the bloodreds ten years ago were simply democratic in nature. When you keep breeding virile breeders and good feeders into a target bloodline - generation after generation - with the intention of changing the colors and patterns of that blood line, you drag all the other traits of those snakes into the target line. In the case of the bloodreds, eventually the virility and good feeding genes won out over their original opposing traits. Polygenetic endeavors can alter virtually any gene pool (except apparently the stubborn Sunkissed mutants) if done correctly. If I didn't love the Sunkissed corns so much, I'd walk away from those gems, but they're just too darned pretty, aren't they?

Don

 

[Kethryanne]

It can be difficult to weed out the truth from the fiction especially when new to the field as we are. Right now the best source for info is the Internet. I have ordered Charles Pritzil's 2011 version of the morph guide, the corn manual by Kathy and bill love as well as den soderberg's corn snake in captivity book (not sure if I have title right at moment.) They just haven't arrived yet since unable to get them at any of the stores near me. They are coming across the border so that slows shipping down a lot. Once we get these it will be a lot easier to figure out fact from fiction. Having forums like this helps as well. Thanks.

 

[jsschrei]

I've really enjoyed reading this thread!

I LOVE the anery tessera from the pic that was posted. I'd also like to see a butter and a charcoal tessera. Lavender tessera. MMMmmm, coral snow tessera. AAAhhhhh, mandarin tessera. This mutation has so much potential and I can't wait to see what people come up with!

 

[chris68]

Quick pic :*)

 

[ratsncorns]

Nanci, Gartersnake is one of the nicest tesserras Ive seen.

I would really love an anery or caramel tesserra. I think the anery-based tesserras are going to make stunning adults.

 

[multicorn]

my turn...!!!

This is my 09 called KONIG ...
from Don (SMR) cheers Don he's great..!!!

 

[Em Wright]

Chris she's very pretty!!

 

[ZoologyGirl]

The hard thing for me to understand is that you would think breeding tesseraXtessera would give all tesseras but it doesn't, wierd huh???????
John

I'm sorry Zorro but to me its not weird, only recessive trait bred to recessive trait can produce all of the same offspring. It does not work like that with Tessera if it is dominant or co-dominant and anything like ball pythons that would mean you can breed a Tessera X Tessera and get Normals, Tesseras, and if one exists a Super Tessera.

This is the way I understand it, let me know if I have this right (or wrong).

If you breed 2 tesseras to eachother, they could both be het tessera (of course because the tessera gene is dominant or whatever, it is expressed even if it is just het tessera).

So if I use T = tessera, and + = wildtype/normal you could have:
TT = tessera (possible super tessera)
T+ = tessera
++ = normal

Where if you breed 2 tesseras together that are both het (T+), you will get 25% TT, 50% T+, and 25% normals (++)....so 75% tessera, 25% normals.

Am I understanding this correctly? Because that is how I have been looking at it.

So if you wanted to test out if your tessera was het stripe you could breed het tessera het stripe (T+Ss) to a stripe (++ss), if the tessera was indeed het stripe you would expect something like:

25% tessera het stripe (T+Ss), 25% tessera stripe (T+ss), 25% normal stripe (++ss), and 25% normals het stripe (++Ss)

Though if you had a homozygous dominant tessera het stripe (TTSs) and bred it to a stripe (++ss), you would get all tesseras (in het form) some would be stripe and some would be het stripe. (50%/50%)

 

[smallet]

My sincerest apologies Don. I should have verified the source way better. I will endouvor to find out where that was and repost it here. In fact I will make sure before I stick both my feet in my mouth again I print the quote rather than reprinting what I read. That way I can make sure I get authors and data correct. I am still learning. And in fact did not know that there was people out there that try and squash new ideas like the Tessera morph or others that I have just read about.

Again I apologise for the misquote about the author and will try to find it a print the quote of who it actually was, so that they can be asked on what basis they came up with that data.
(Some lessons just have to be learned the hard way)

 

[Nanci]

Bumping Tessera Club!!

Let's see those new hatchlings!!!

Here's Gartersnake, having a little soak in his tub!

 

[multicorn]

Ok nanci some hatchlings for ya..!

 

[Nanci]

Ooh, I really like the side pattern on the middle one!! (Can't tell if that's the same as the last one).