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viktors meal tried to get away. haha

Kali said:
Educating someone is something different from ramming it down their throat. Once they are made aware of the risks involved, there is no more you can do, how unfortunate it may be. Getting upset about it only makes the person stubborn and gets yourself even more irritated.
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Well, maybe if enough educated responsible compassionate people "ram it down their throat", maybe the message will hit home!

20 years ago, before I had ever known about f/t, and before I learned about the sensibility of Libertarianism(where just because you don't like something does not mean it should be illegal if it does not impinge on your rights), I thought that EVERY snake required live food. Back then I would have had NO PROBLEM with banning ownership of snakes worldwide. I have matured and learned alot since then, but how many people do you think are out there who feel the way I used to?
 
gelshark said:
People that judge others without knowing the whole story give our whole species a bad name, why do you think all the aliens in the movies want us all dead?
Now, where's that pile of stones?
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Which is why i commented on how I felt about him posting the picture, and not about the live feeding. If the snake will only eat live, you have to do what you have to do. But posting the picture was imo disgusting.
 
starsevol said:
Which is why i commented on how I felt about him posting the picture, and not about the live feeding. If the snake will only eat live, you have to do what you have to do. But posting the picture was imo disgusting.
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I recall one member here that thinks any feeding picture/video is disgusting whether it be live or f/t or f/k. Everyone has different opinions. I can't wait to see the day where everyone has the same opinions, what a bland world that will be.
 
starsevol said:
Well, maybe if enough educated responsible compassionate people "ram it down their throat", maybe the message will hit home!
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I must say I'm very gratefull not everybody thinks like you do.
Do you really believe that??? The only thing you would achieve is that those people will stop coming to places like this, where they would be bashed, in stead of staying, learning and possibly growing other and better ideas.
like you did.
 
gelshark said:
I recall one member here that thinks any feeding picture/video is disgusting whether it be live or f/t or f/k. Everyone has different opinions. I can't wait to see the day where everyone has the same opinions, what a bland world that will be.
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Yeah, I have NO PROBLEM with feeding pics, as long as the prey is not suffering and the snake has no chance of being hurt.

Oh, and my views have completely changed about reptile keeping, if you didn't know! I'm going to Daytona this year, and my only planned purchase is at least $100 of raffle tickets at the dinner to benefit USARK.
 
Kali said:
I must say I'm very gratefull not everybody thinks like you do.
Do you really believe that??? The only thing you would achieve is that those people will stop coming to places like this, where they would be bashed, in stead of staying, learning and possibly growing other and better ideas.
like you did.
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I did no "ramming " here, except to say that the picture was in bad taste. And it was. If the snake truly needs live to live, so be it.

And I am not the only one who has no use for needlessly cruel people...
 
I guess we f/t advocates are not going to win over this OP. However, it does sound like the OP did try f/t & p/k, just maybe didn't try as hard as I would!

Edit: And I a gree with Beth this picture was in bad taste since it turned out to be live. I don't come here to see pictures of cruelty, I can get those on YouTube
 
I also have to say the bashing cramming what ever you want to call it bad on this site this one of many forums I visit and sometimes I just can't see all the bashing. It's almost seems like some people like this sort of thing who knows.
 
The OP said he tried f/t and prekilled and the snake will not eat them. In all this discussion everyone is saying do whats best for the snake. So if it won't eat either f/t or p/k is it better to let it starve than feed it live. Come on, he's trying to keep the snake alive, doing whats best for the snake.
 
Ruderacer said:
The OP said he tried f/t and prekilled and the snake will not eat them. In all this discussion everyone is saying do whats best for the snake. So if it won't eat either f/t or p/k is it better to let it starve than feed it live. Come on, he's trying to keep the snake alive, doing whats best for the snake.
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The OP also has 8 snakes, 7 of which eat live. Given that MOST corns will take f/t, and MOST of those who won't will take fresh p/k, the OP hasn't tried very hard IMHO. Now, I agree with you about this snake, it's pretty clear the OP tried with this snake, and that THIS SNAKE needs live to live a healthy life, and I am actually FINE with that idea but I don't want to see the pictures. I do strongly support & agree that the OP is doing what is best for this snake, though. If it just WON'T take f/t or p/k, then it needs live.
 
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I'm so sick of seeing this.. People ask a simple question, or post a picture, and everyone goes crazy over it. I'm not going to say that I enjoyed seeing that mouse in the picture struggling and panicked, but it is a part of life... It happens. I, personally, would not choose to feed my snakes live, nor suggest it to anyone else. All you can do is give your opinion, which should be done respectively. What happens is totally up to the owner, nothing you can do about it. You are only making it worse by getting upset with them and trying to talk them into it. The person will just get defensive and become stubborn. I don't know if anyone else has seen a pattern.. but the more people who decide to attack and judge, the less willing the OP seems to be about changing their ways. If you don't wish to educate and give your opinion in a respective way... Please don't bother posting. It's making this forum look like a very harsh community..
 
I, too, feel passionately about feeding f/t or p/k. It's hard for me to understand how anyone that truly loves animals could watch one needlessly suffer at the expense of entertainment or convenience. However, I think that being overly aggressive is self-damaging. When I first started posting here I lurked for a LONG time, too intimidated to post anything because of the antagonistic attitudes of some members. I was afraid that I would be overly lambasted or sneered at. The OP is a new member, and I really wouldn't want to scare him off. Luckily, many new posters already know the merits of not feeding live, but many don't. This should be an opportunity to educate in a kind way!

If we all communicated face-to-face instead of anonymously, I really do think some of our word choices would change, because we would not want to say those sorts of things to each others' faces, as it would be rude. The internet should not change this; if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all.
 
Maybe you'd prefer a forum where people aren't allowed to disagree! If so, I can suggest one...

What is best for the snake is to try HARD to get it to switch to FT or at least PK. If the person hasn't tried, or tried a few times and failed, they aren't trying hard enough. They are taking the easy way out.

And even if you can't change the OP's mind, there are hundreds of beginners reading each anti-live feeding, anti-cohabbing, anti-whatever bad husbandry thread, who can learn from it before their snake has to suffer.
 
gelshark said:
People that judge others without knowing the whole story give our whole species a bad name, why do you think all the aliens in the movies want us all dead?
Now, where's that pile of stones?
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Well, you will have noticed I didn't even conclude it WAS a live mouse until the OP told me so.

But feeding live unnecessarily is one of the reasons that non-herpers judge US, so I am fine with being pushy about f/t & p/k. Live should only be a last resort. In this particular snake's case, it sounds like it is.
 
I have absolutely no problems with people stating their opinion, if they agree or disagree. I'm just sick of seeing people post their opinions in an ineffective way. If everyone could be a bit more respectful about how they post, there would be a lot more discussions, instead of arguments.
 
Nanci said:
Maybe you'd prefer a forum where people aren't allowed to disagree! If so, I can suggest one...
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I don't believe anybody is saying disagreeing should not be allowed. Nor does anybody say there cannot be held a discussion about it.
But when somebody doesn't immediately change things, often bashing and namecalling starts. And mostly it's counterproductive, as the person then is even less likely to accept the advice given.
Whatever you may think of the person, being friendly will get results sooner than being unfriendly.
And that in turn is best for the animals, be it snakes or feeder animals.

Now what is most important here...?
 
Maybe you'd prefer a forum where people aren't allowed to disagree! If so, I can suggest one...

What is best for the snake is to try HARD to get it to switch to FT or at least PK. If the person hasn't tried, or tried a few times and failed, they aren't trying hard enough. They are taking the easy way out.

And even if you can't change the OP's mind, there are hundreds of beginners reading each anti-live feeding, anti-cohabbing, anti-whatever bad husbandry thread, who can learn from it before their snake has to suffer.
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You must spread some reputation around....
Best post in this entire thread IMHO.

Whatever you may think of the person, being friendly will get results sooner than being unfriendly.
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In a lot of situation in life this is true, but for those of us who have been around this forum long enough know - this doesn't work very often here for those people who think they know everything there is to know about their snakes and what is best for them. Doesn't matter if you are nice or rude - they are still going to do whatever they feel like and most of the time in threads like this it is NOT what is in the best interest of the animal. So yes, a lot of people get very heated about it because people do not want to listen to the advice of experienced keepers at the detriment of their own snakes.
 
When I stumble upon one of the many threads where someone is being 'educated', it seems that it is mostly the newer members (1-2 years) who are posting replies that aren't exactly the nicest. It is rare that I see someone who has been here for many years to speak like that to someone. So I don't so much agree that it is because 'people have tried everything to get it through to them', so it has resulted to this. I think we should re-think what is an acceptable post, and begin to come down a bit harder on those who have completely forgotten that this site is about people helping eachother. These types of threads are becoming way too popular, you can find them anywhere.
 
Starsevevol, Nanci & ArpeggioAngel have all been here a while. They certainly aren't "newer members". I have tried to keep my comments moderate in part because I am a newer member. You probably didn't notice and don't care that until the OP TOLD US it was live, I kept pointing out it could have been very fresh p/k.

I'm done with this thread
 
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