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When to worry??

That is very hopeful news! She must really want to releave herself, fingers crossed that the next one will be out by morning. I have had my fair share of egg binding, but last year went very well and I only had one female bind on me and she made it just fine. One thing I learned is egg bound females are a lot like non-feeders. It is easy to try too hard when you are so desparate to save them. But in the end you never can really tell just what will do the trick for each female. It is a very helpless feeling. Crazy Critters......
 
Unfortunately, the last egg didn't move at all overnight. I just hope it isn't adhered to the oviduct! All I know to do is keep exercising her and feeding her. I hope she is going to be OK!
 
SUPER, WONDERFUL, TERRIFIC NEWS!!!

I just wanted to let you all know that my girl passed her last egg today! I was SO excited! Thanks to all of you that offered encouragement and advice!
 
HEY TERRI

Two thumbs up and then some!!!!! I am sooo happy for you. That was some ordeal. Hope everything from now on runs smoothly for you.
Congratulations!!!!!

:cheers: :spinner: :D :p :cheers:
 
I am so pleased to hear that Terri.

Congratulations to you both. I wonder who is more exhausted?!

Best Wishes, Skye
 
Heck egg binding or retention is just par for the course. I expect to have about a dozen or so each year. 99 percent of the time, benign neglect seems to work the best to resolving the problem.

To most females this happens to, they just got tuckered out before they could lay all of their eggs. Most do not get nearly enough exercise in their cages, so their muscle tone is obviously not optimum. So this is certainly the most work and use of their muscles that they will have all year long. Some just can't go the whole nine yards at one shot.

A couple of things are important here.

(1) Optimum laying conditions as early as possible will help the female to dump the eggs before they swell too much to be passed easily. Many people say a rule of thumb is that a female will lay her eggs 10 days after the pre-egg laying shed. I have found this is not true. If conditions are satisfactory to the female, she will lay in about 6 days after the shed. The 10 day benchmark is when the female becomes a whole lot less critical about where she lays them. Kind of an "any port in a storm" sort of attitude. The earlier she can dump the eggs, the easier it will be on her.

(2) If the female gets tired, heck don't make things worse by stressing her out by picking her up every 10 minutes to inspect her. Leave her alone! When she gets her strength back, she will continue on with the process. If you pick her up and otherwise stress her out, her natural instincts may tell her that this isn't such a good place to lay her eggs after all, so she will go into a search pattern again looking for a better place. All the while, those eggs are growing.

(3) When more than 2 weeks have passed after the initial egg laying commenced, you may have to step in and give a helping hand. Normally I let the female "tell" me when she wants help. In many cases, I will look in on her and see her with the tail raised and straining to pass the egg. In most cases, she does not even resist as I help to massage the egg out, giving her that little extra pressure needed to move the egg out. But you have to be gentle and reassuring to the female. If she thrashes and fights you, leave her alone! Don't add to the stress.

It is rare that I actually lose a snake to egg retention problems. In the early years doing this, I lost several of them per year, and my conclusion about why that happened then was that I worried the females to death and over stressed them. Having learned my lesson on that, I have found it is FAR better to just let nature try to take care of itself as much as possible before intruding. I know this is tough to do, but it is what I have found that works the best.
 
Rich, what about eggs like the ones pictured in the radiograph I posted (the two nearest the vent)? They were absolutely huge. Would you have intervened in this case?

I knew I would eventually have to deal with egg binding. I wish it hadn't been this female, but oh well, Murphy strikes again!
 
In cases where large eggs are obviously not going to come out on their own, I have crowned the eggs by manipulation, then lanced the exposed portion of the egg to drain the fluid. While the fluid is draining, I would then grab the exposed portion of the egg and pull it from the vent in a smooth and steady motion, taking care to try not to get the contents of the egg into the oviduct. Obviously, this needs the patient to be pretty much quiescent and at least not fighting me for this to work, but sometimes another pair of hands can come in handy. But I have found that sooner or later, most females are going to find that getting the egg out is much more important than worrying about me handling her in the process of helping her do that.

BTW, I know some people will aspirate eggs within the oviduct through the scutes, but I am just not comfortable with that technique. I do not think the fluid from the eggs being in the oviduct if a good thing to have happen. The way I have been doing it just seems so much less invasive and less subject to further complications later on.

But your mileage may vary.
 
CornCrazy said:

I almost forgot...this is a first-timer female. She is a 2002 corn that weighs over 300 grams.

Something to think about, I believe this snake was to young to breed no matter how much she weight. IMO
 
Re: Re: When to worry??

Tim Madsen said:
Something to think about, I believe this snake was to young to breed no matter how much she weight. IMO

I have only had snakes since 2002, but I have always been told that size is more important than age. I had several fast growers, and I was told they should be fine to breed. I did not have trouble with any of the other ones. Thanks for the input, though. I'd like to hear more about WHY you think she was too young regardless of her size.
Terri - how did you aspirate your eggs?
Basically in the same manner that Kathy Love talks about in the Corn Snake Manual? Or on her site? I don't remember which...
 
Re: Re: Re: When to worry??

CornCrazy said:
I have only had snakes since 2002, but I have always been told that size is more important than age. I had several fast growers, and I was told they should be fine to breed. I did not have trouble with any of the other ones. Thanks for the input, though. I'd like to hear more about WHY you think she was too young regardless of her size.

In order to breed that snake you would have to have got it to breeding size in something like 12 months maybe 15 depending on when it hatch in 2002. I don't believe that the snakes skeletal and muscle structure would be mature enough to tolerate egg laying very well. I normally don't breed corns until they are 3 years old. The couple of times I've breed snakes under 2 years are the only times I've had problems. This is just my opinion and personal experience. I'm curious How long is this snake? That's what I use as a gauge for breeding size, I don't breed any snake that's under 36 inches, 40 is preferred.
 
All of the ones I bred were at least 3 feet and 300 grams (except for the males). Those are the guidelines that I've repeatedly read. They also were early 2002s so they were all around 20 months old, not 12-15.

I do want to mention, as I have said before when posting pictures of these snakes, that they are on a strict once a week feeding. They were never power-fed. They were simply fast growers. I have other 2002s that were still too small to breed...
 
I have bred two 2002 females. One is my Amel Motley which is close to 4' and 275 grams. She is as big as most 3 year olds. My other is my Bloodred het Pewter female. I did not intend breeding her this year already. But after the short hibernation she fed like a wolf and started showing signs of obesity. I fed her once a week. So in Februari I decided to place with the male. Right now when I see her so bloated I feel regret. She is 11 days since shed. I am giving her absolute rest and will follow Rich's guide of not disturbing her. The Amel Motley is 10 days after pre-shed and I have no worries for her. She looks great, just like a normal female ready to lay eggs.
 
Does it feel like you can't win~~~~~:~

The only female I didn't breed at 2 years and waited until 3 (this year) is now egg-bound, she got a dose of oxiticyn (sorry if I'm off with the spelling). She laid 12 eggs and it wasn't until 5 days later I noticed she was bulging, xrays show she still has 4 eggs. If no movement soon, :crying: All the other ladies laid fine last year and this year. So, go figure. Sam ~~~~~:~

Terri how is it going and Rich, any photos of you doing the deed? I love to show my vet!
 
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