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Why would you have to--and how would you?--kill a hatchling
- Thread starter VioletS16
- Start date
wstphal
working in the Gulag
A severe deformity not compatible with life would be a reason in my eyes (like if the intestines are OUTSIDE the body cavity where the yolk sac attached). Another reason would be if the snake was not gaining any weight at all and not eating after weeks to months of force feeding -- that would tell me something was wrong inside other than just being a nonfeeder. Obvious evidence the hatchling was suffering, thrashing in pain when I & the vet can't find anything we can help with. Seizures, like epilepsy.
As for how to do it -- a vet can inject barbiturates, which will cause any vertebrate to go to sleep & stop breathing. That's the route I'd go. I know there are other options but I don't know enough about them to comment.
In my eyes it's the same as any other animal -- if they are suffering unrelentingly and I can't relieve the suffering short of euthanasia, then I owe it to the animal to make the suffering stop, even though it upsets me.
As for how to do it -- a vet can inject barbiturates, which will cause any vertebrate to go to sleep & stop breathing. That's the route I'd go. I know there are other options but I don't know enough about them to comment.
In my eyes it's the same as any other animal -- if they are suffering unrelentingly and I can't relieve the suffering short of euthanasia, then I owe it to the animal to make the suffering stop, even though it upsets me.
starsevol
Cohabbing is cruelty...
I was reading something about if a hatchling snake isn't "meant to be" you kill it.
Why and how would you kill it? do they mean non-feeders? I know a cure to non-feeding, so why on EARTH would you kill a snake? Deformity? How?:nope: This makes me really depressed!
From what I understand, if a hatchling isn't meant to be, it means that despite everything tried, it dies anyway on its own.
As far as killing a hatchling, non feeders are sometimes culled if everything is tried and it still won't eat, and is looking like it is suffering. Also deformed or kinked babies are sometimes killed as well.
Usually they are put in the refrigerator to slow them down and put them in hibernation, before they are put in the freezer. It is considered very humane to cull hatchlings this way.
RobbiesCornField
Bring it on.
I know a cure to non-feeding, too. Several, actually. But each one is not guaranteed. If someone tries all of them, and the hatchling still won't eat, and is obviously becoming unhealthy and skinny, sometimes the kindest thing is to euthanize it.
So what's your miracle cure?
So what's your miracle cure?
Hallie
SNOW!!!!
That's what I was wondering too...I had a group of 35 nonfeeders (you already know this story Robbie) this past year and only four survived, despite trying everything. This would indicate to me that many nonfeeders have internal issues and are programmed not to eat. My theory was backed up by the fact that some started to eat and suddenly dropped dead one day (happened to about 15 of them).
And to answer your question...severe deformities, neurological issues, chronic nonfeeding and weight loss, repeated regurges and weight loss, etc. would all be reasons that I would cull hatchlings. As for methods, the freezing method is said to be extraordinarily painful even after 'slowing' the body down in the freezer (although I'd think it is better for hatchlings than it is for larger snakes), so I tend not to go that route. A quick blow to the skull with a blunt object (I don't do this, I don't have the heart...a friend of mine euthanizes for me) does the trick immediately and painlessly.
In nature, the snakes with issues wouldn't have survived very long, why try to play God and continue their suffering just to make ourselves feel better?
Tania
I just love cornsnakes
Hallie, your story sounds so familiar! Last year I had about half of my hatchlings (about 30 I think) happen the same thing of not eating and if they do started, they lay dead after a week or so.
To the OP: I agree with everything posted already. I had a severe deformed baby last year, and I putted it in the freezer. Normally I have pics of it, if I may, I'll post them but they are very grafic...
Greets Tania
To the OP: I agree with everything posted already. I had a severe deformed baby last year, and I putted it in the freezer. Normally I have pics of it, if I may, I'll post them but they are very grafic...
Greets Tania
I was reading something about if a hatchling snake isn't "meant to be" you kill it.
Why and how would you kill it? do they mean non-feeders? I know a cure to non-feeding, so why on EARTH would you kill a snake? Deformity? How?
There are no cures, only possible solutions. Lets change this around. What if we're talking puppies and kittens? If a puppy or kitten were born with an obvious condition that would likely lead to a life of suffering and/or death, would you not want to humanely end it's pain? Why ask why?
Memphios
Unknown Entity
:smash:
D80
I lol'd.
Sorry, all my ideas have already been presented and I have nothing else to contribute. :rofl:
airenlow
hope is not a strategy
:smash:
D80
That's better than...:twoguns:
Drizzt80
Dakota Corns
Teddy Roosevelt
i loev cronsankes
:flames:???
Drizzt80
Dakota Corns
Ooooh!! You win! Cause after yer done, you just need dippin' sauce!! Say a bleu cheese?!?!
:eek1:
D80
carnivorouszoo
Crazy Critter Lady
I agree with everyone here putting down hatchlings is generally reserved only for those whom could not be helped via medical or nutritional routes. I know some folks keep king snakes to dispatch the poor hatchlings so there is no waste. It would happen in nature and I am sure is quicker than the freezer.
Powerade bath is almost 80% sure to cure non-feeders. No, I swear it's true!!! Seriously! I'm not a freak!
lol that makes sense, but I've heard that freezing is inhumane becasue snakes aren't mammals and they don't "go to sleep" they are awake the whole time and they feel their cells explode or something... :nope: What a crazy world.
lol that makes sense, but I've heard that freezing is inhumane becasue snakes aren't mammals and they don't "go to sleep" they are awake the whole time and they feel their cells explode or something... :nope: What a crazy world.
Darcpixie
New member
These snakes are equiped to handle a period of cooling, brumation, already. The reduced activity level and the amount of time they go without eating would suggest an internal slowdown in response to cooler temperatures.
Given this, especially for very small hatchlings with a quick penetrence of the ambient temperature, I would go with an appropriately done freezing would be an acceptable solution.
By the way, be more specific with your *non feeder cure*
Given this, especially for very small hatchlings with a quick penetrence of the ambient temperature, I would go with an appropriately done freezing would be an acceptable solution.
By the way, be more specific with your *non feeder cure*
RosieReal
New member
Yes Honey, thats one of the MANYMANYMANY ways to try to cure a non feeder. Braining, slitting, superheating, and smaller feeding containors have a similar rate of success. MOST snake owners do not put their hatchlings down without first trying everything they can. I don't think people killing young snakes is quite the problem in the industry (I'm getting the impression) you think it is. Also, your method is not unknown in the industry. Its good that you know of a solution to try with non feeders. I also do not belive that your impression of what happens when a reptile is frozen is accurate, but am not prepared to comment further. It is true you should not freeze adult rodents, as they can be caused much pain by this process, but feeders are much different than the things they feed.
Sadly, there are many reasons in all forms of life from humans to reptiles, why a creature would be born that will not (for whatever reason) survive on its own, or will be caused much pain if its kept alive. Non feeders often expire (as far as I'm informed) on their own, from not feeding. There are many members here with extensive non-feeder experiance, if you are interested in hearing more about that, I'm sure there are people who would oblige you.
dionythicus
Kiss My Hearse
A C02 chamber works as well for snakes. It takes longer for them to die, but it is probably the least painful way. When I had an entire clutch of fifteen that were so horrible kinked that they were bent into squares and would never have been able to move of their own accord or eat, I chose to euthanise them all. I chose the freezer. For such small snakes, it takes only moments.
ghosthousecorns
Well-known member
I've used dry ice to euthanize snakes before too. I don't know if that really makes them die any faster than freezing, I have done it both ways. I think freezing sounds worse than it really is for the snake, I drop their internal temp in the refrigerator first until they go into a brumation-like slumber and then put them in the freezer. I still think it's kinder than feeding a live snake to a king snake, but my kings do eat my (f/t) culls.
Why would you want to force something to live if it is suffering or can't/won't function? Sometimes euthanizing seems kinder than trying and trying to make a snake live that just isn't thriving. As a novice my first few years when I had hatchlings I would try anything and everything, force feeding, tease feeding, lizard scenting, and sometimes no matter what you do they just won't eat. And to me it seems unkind to force them them to go on like that, watching them get skinnier and skinnier and then they die anyway. I probably try harder than most to get the nonfeeders going and I have a pretty good success rate but there are some babies that just are sickly, mother nature can be cruel.
Also, I am trying to produce robust, healthy stock here and I neither want to sell nor keep a snake that is not doing well. I know a lot of breeders have a "three strikes and you're out" policy with non feeders. Mine is a bit more lenient than this, but I do have more of a "time's up" policy if they don't eat within reasonable time frame after hatching, I don't like to see them waste away.
Why would you want to force something to live if it is suffering or can't/won't function? Sometimes euthanizing seems kinder than trying and trying to make a snake live that just isn't thriving. As a novice my first few years when I had hatchlings I would try anything and everything, force feeding, tease feeding, lizard scenting, and sometimes no matter what you do they just won't eat. And to me it seems unkind to force them them to go on like that, watching them get skinnier and skinnier and then they die anyway. I probably try harder than most to get the nonfeeders going and I have a pretty good success rate but there are some babies that just are sickly, mother nature can be cruel.
Also, I am trying to produce robust, healthy stock here and I neither want to sell nor keep a snake that is not doing well. I know a lot of breeders have a "three strikes and you're out" policy with non feeders. Mine is a bit more lenient than this, but I do have more of a "time's up" policy if they don't eat within reasonable time frame after hatching, I don't like to see them waste away.