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Wintertime hydration....

ratsnakehaven

I like functionality.. :)
I do both brumation and active, over-wintering.

I consider humidity levels to be a problem, because I live in AZ and cold weather humidity levels are mostly single digits. I think anyone who lives in an area that gets cold weather in winter or in an area that has a dry climate, should be concerned about humidity for their corns. This is not because corns are less hardy than other snakes, but corns in the wild do come from humid climates and dry conditions will be a problem for any species, imho.

In my Brumation Room the relative or ambient humidity is around 35%, so I don't worry about dehydration as much. Still, I use humid hides and check the water in their tanks every couple weeks. In my Herp Room, where I over-winter the active snakes, the humidity level is very low, so I use every trick I can to help my snakes.

Some of my snakes protect themselves by over-wintering in one of their water containers. These are not corn snakes, but a very close relative, Emory's ratsnakes.

A Brazos Island female spending several weeks in her smaller water jug....
BrazosIsland03-fRH112406a_TC.jpg

A La Salle County Emory's ratsnake soaking in its water jug....
LaSallemeahlly-fRH61110a1b_TC.jpg

The La Salle doesn't soak as much, but the Brazos Island's do this a lot. Their fear must be greater. BTW, I've seen snakes do this for an entire brumation with no adverse affects.

In areas where folks have to heat their homes, which is almost everywhere, the heat source normally reduces the humidity levels. I would recommend everyone be familiar with their humidity levels year 'round. Baby snakes and yearlings are especially susceptible to dry conditions. I keep a close eye on my babies and make sure they aren't in a very dry situation. If you keep your snake in a large viv, you might want to keep a humid hide in the tank as protection for your snake, especially just before it sheds, or when the shedding cycle begins. I keep mine in shoe boxes with a water container and paper towelling, which I spray ocassionally. They still would have problems if I didn't have the humidifier going almost daily. The boxes dry out rapidly.

In most of my tanks I keep large containers of water (2), in case one gets dirtied. I also have a humid hide. Some species are more at risk than others. And humid hides don't have to have moss in them. There are other kinds of humid hides, such as one I use..a recycled kitty litter box, a couple gallon capacity, which has about an inch of gravel in the bottom that can be easily cleaned, dries out over a week, or two, and can keep the actual water from contact with the snake. I stuff some newspaper in for the snake to hide under. They only use these hides when necessary from what I can tell, and I haven't had any problems with them. I've only had problems with containers of damp moss and no air circulation.

I think all newbies should be aware of a possible dehydration problem under certain circumstances. Any other opinions on this topic??

Happy Holidays....Terry :wavey:
 
What is it with ratsnakes? All of mine LOVE soaking in their water bowls. I never see my corns doing this.

Great post btw! Now that I am back in IL from FL I have to remember to check humidity levels. They are hovering about 30-35%, all sheds are still complete. Any less than that and I will have to move the water bowls over the heat cable in the back of the tub, which will boost humidity by at least 10% (with more frequent water changes of course).
 
Mine won't come out of the bedding to go into her hide. The humidity in the tank is only about 10% and I can't figure out how to raise it without decreasing airflow which will push my temp too high. Any ideas? I'd mist her directly if I could figure out where she is but haven't had any luck there yet.
 
Mine won't come out of the bedding to go into her hide. The humidity in the tank is only about 10% and I can't figure out how to raise it without decreasing airflow which will push my temp too high. Any ideas? I'd mist her directly if I could figure out where she is but haven't had any luck there yet.


I'd find her and put her in a closed container with a little water to make sure she's hydrated. Then do something about the humidity problem. At least put a humid hide in with her, so she has a chance for some moisture. You could hydrate her every day or two for 1/2 hr. or so until you get the cage fixed how you want it. Find her and check her condition.

;)
 
and not to state the obvious, if she prefers to be under the bedding cover the humid hide with your bedding substrate...no use having one if she wont ever see it "on her level" ;)
 
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Aah...the great humidity issues.....and no...i have no anwsers..LOL...just a suggestion that works well for me here in ohio. the humidity here hovers around 36% on the OUTSIDE of the tubs...and around 40% or so on the inside(Assuming the corns havent been swimming in their water dishes and spilling it onto the aspen bedding). what i usually do during the winter months is put an empty orange sherbert bowl with a hole cut in the lid...inside the bowl i put either aspen or sphagnum...slightly (i mean SLIGHTLY) damp. the water generally evaporates before mold or the other nasty stuff starts to take over...the snakes seem to love the idea....i'll catch them in their perspective sherbert tubs at all times during the day and night....(Yes....i LOVE Orange sherbert). just a suggestion. i dont know what the humidity level is on the inside of the sherbert tubs....but is seems to be in the range the corns like. perhaps i'll take an avg. reading and repost on this thread.
 
Sorry for the double post....but after i typed the above post...I went to check on the babies....and on que...look who i found.....My Ultramel charcoal female:
 

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Her bedding is Zilla Bark Blend and I have some Zilla Jungle Mix I can add if it would help with keeping some moisture in the bedding. I've got a bottle of Zilla Tropical Mist I can spray either her or the bedding with, too. I still haven't managed to locate her. I think after my son falls asleep I'll have to really go digging. I've got a feeling she's tunneling away everytime I come near her. Does anyone know if the aspen bedding I get for my rabbit and guinea pig is suitable for use with the snake? I've got 4 cu ft of it laying around as well as shredded newspaper and Carefresh if either of those work. I have noticed that the Carefresh will hold a lot of liquid without getting soggy. Maybe a bit of it dampened and tossed in the hide?
 
What is it with ratsnakes? All of mine LOVE soaking in their water bowls. I never see my corns doing this.


There are all kinds of ratsnake species. Each has special adaptations. My more exotic ratsnakes, such as the green rats and Mexican night snakes, need more moisture in their cages, because of what they're used to in the wild. They both absolutely need humid hides or they will get physically ill and won't be able to shed right.

I'm not the expert on corn snakes, still having particular things to learn about them, but corn snakes couldn't be too much different from the many ratsnake species I am more familiar with. I've had them on and off through the years and remember having problems in the winter time when I lived in northern Michigan from the air being too dry and drying out their cages so badly. However, I've always brumated too, so the problems were a little rare.

Some ratsnakes are especially prone to going into the water, because of where they're from. The Brazos Island ratsnakes (emoryi) come from a very dry area and seek out moist spots, either ponds or underground seeps, so they don't die of dessication. Others, like the green rats, find moist areas under large boulders and stay there for extensive periods of time. In my opinion snakes do what their instincts tell them to do. Fox snakes and black ratsnakes are excellent swimmers and don't hesitate to go in the water. My corn snakes haven't gone into their water containers as much as some other species, but they do use them ocassionally.

Corn snakes also have fairly thin skins. I've seen some that are more thin than others, however, and maybe that has to do with being amelanistic or where they're from. Snakes with thin skins are more susceptible to dessication than others. Probably not all corns have thin skins. I think most of them are quite hardy actually. But I think a lot of corns, especially ones from places like Florida, the Carolinas, etc, are more adapted to hot and humid climates and spend a lot of time underground in moist areas.

PS: Kingsnakes like water pretty well too. I had one Eastern King that would brumate in its water jug every winter for four months.. ;)
 
Mine won't come out of the bedding to go into her hide. The humidity in the tank is only about 10% and I can't figure out how to raise it without decreasing airflow which will push my temp too high. Any ideas? I'd mist her directly if I could figure out where she is but haven't had any luck there yet.
That's pretty dry, you need to figure that out. What are you using for heat?
Maybe using a substrate that holds more moisture will help. I use bark that starts out pretty humid. When I change it the viv goes up to about 55%-65% for a few days and loses it slowly over a few weeks. By the time I change it the humidity is about 35%. I don't add any water except in her bowl on the cool end. The viv is real big and well ventilated, I don't know how that would translate to a smaller one.

Extra thought edit: What are you measuring the humidity with?
 
Oooooh...she's pretty!! :)

Yeah, I think she kinda sexy myself...LOL shes an '09 Vms (Sean Niland) Ultramel Charcoal. She'll be paired with my '09 Phantom het amel(Assuming they like one another). should get Charcoals,Ultramel charcoals,and the target,...Blizzards.
 
Her bedding is Zilla Bark Blend and I have some Zilla Jungle Mix I can add if it would help with keeping some moisture in the bedding. I've got a bottle of Zilla Tropical Mist I can spray either her or the bedding with, too. I still haven't managed to locate her. I think after my son falls asleep I'll have to really go digging. I've got a feeling she's tunneling away everytime I come near her. Does anyone know if the aspen bedding I get for my rabbit and guinea pig is suitable for use with the snake? I've got 4 cu ft of it laying around as well as shredded newspaper and Carefresh if either of those work. I have noticed that the Carefresh will hold a lot of liquid without getting soggy. Maybe a bit of it dampened and tossed in the hide?


I don't know what Zilla Bark Blend or Zilla Jungle Mix are. Sounds like pet shop stuff. I don't know what kind of aspen you have either, unless you tell me. Is it shredded or aspen chips? I would use the shredded, but not the chips, if it were me. Others use chips, but not the greatest, imho. I don't use Carefresh, but know what it is. Sounds like it would work in some situations.

Here's something you could do. Try putting a shoe box or other suitable open container into your cage and put some Carefresh in it. Moisten the Carefresh, but not so much that's it dripping wet. Let it sit in a corner of your cage for awhile. Maybe your snake will find it overnight and you'll be able to find your snake easier.

BTW, if you can't find your snake, I would personally use a smaller cage.

:santa:
 
Aah...the great humidity issues.....and no...i have no anwsers..LOL...just a suggestion that works well for me here in ohio. the humidity here hovers around 36% on the OUTSIDE of the tubs...and around 40% or so on the inside(Assuming the corns havent been swimming in their water dishes and spilling it onto the aspen bedding). what i usually do during the winter months is put an empty orange sherbert bowl with a hole cut in the lid...inside the bowl i put either aspen or sphagnum...slightly (i mean SLIGHTLY) damp. the water generally evaporates before mold or the other nasty stuff starts to take over...the snakes seem to love the idea....i'll catch them in their perspective sherbert tubs at all times during the day and night....(Yes....i LOVE Orange sherbert). just a suggestion. i dont know what the humidity level is on the inside of the sherbert tubs....but is seems to be in the range the corns like. perhaps i'll take an avg. reading and repost on this thread.


Your humidity sounds pretty good. I think your snakes are using the ice cream tubs for hides. They tend to like tight places. Try stuffing the hides with newspaper, or something else, like paper towelling. Try putting the cardboard tubing from the paper towel rolls into your cage. You'll find your snakes hiding in them from time to time.

LOL... :santa:
 
yep,

Already using paper towel rolls for the snakes..as well as a "true" man made hide, and the sherbert tubs....they have LOTS of places to hide. Just trying t make everybody happy.
 
My Brazos Island ratsnakes (emoryi) mating in their large water jug...
BrazosIsmatingRH51110a1b_TC.jpg

Notice the large plastic hide in the left, rear of the tank. It's a humid hide and stuffed with newpaper for the snakes to hide under. I use smaller humid hides also. Some of the smaller snakes want a tighter container to hide in. The cage is in some disarray too, 'cus two large snakes are in one cage and they'd been breeding.

PS: I often spray the bedding which holds the moisture for a day or two. There's several reasons for that.
 
Here's a pic of a Mandarin ratsnake. Not a corn snake, but it shows a typical cage setup of mine. Also shows how much you can mist the cage when it's really dry and you have a snake that loves moisture/humidity....
94233Mandarin.Sichuan.RH42206_TC-med.jpg

This is also a snake that comes from a hot and humid climate, like corns, and spends most of its time underground.

I'm not saying folks should set up their corns like this. I'm just saying this type of setup works for me. To be honest, I don't care about aesthetics, just functionality...heheh!

:dancer:
 
Here's a pic of an albino corn I kept from 2002 to 2007...
CornAmelRH62307_TC.jpg

Notice that I was using the water jugs idea back then too.

Here's a hybrid corn (rootbeer) soaking in her water jug...
HybridCornbig-fRH61810a1b_TC.jpg


Just a couple of my corns from prior years... :dancer:
 
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