Sex of Snakes....

HaisseM said:

Look, i do understand what everyone is saying, i woudn't be on here asking questions if i didn't have questions, but something to remember I never asked about cohabitition I asked if there was a way to tell which snake was a male or female. While i do appreciate people informing me what is highly successful to them, I don't need people telling me I have no clue what i'm doing. As far as a situation they should not be in, I don't think you can really decided if MY snakes are in a bad situation. ENOUGH SAID.

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I think what happened was that your question about sexing your snakes made you look really uninformed about snake husbandry and breeding and that triggered the strong response.

Try Kathy Love's site for information on sexing: http://www.cornutopia.com/Corn Utopia on the Web/- Sexing corn snakes - intro to vid clips.htm

HaisseM said:

I understand this seems to be a really big stigma here (cohabitation) but is it really necessary to split them now? The one thing I've gotten from all these, is next year during mating season and after/before they have another batch of eggs, I need to keep them in seperate tanks...

I read somewhere at this point to remove the pairs might actually cause more stress at this time.

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"I read somewhere" isn't going to carry a lot of weight here, I'm afraid.

The sooner you house your snakes separately, the sooner you take control over the breeding of your female, and the better that is for her; she doesn't have the options she would in the wild: she can't move out of the male's range to avoid him and she can't seek out more prey to recover from her previous clutches.

HaisseM said:

I understand this seems to be a really big stigma here (cohabitation) but is it really necessary to split them now? The one thing I've gotten from all these, is next year during mating season and after/before they have another batch of eggs, I need to keep them in seperate tanks...

I read somewhere at this point to remove the pairs might actually cause more stress at this time.

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I do not have the strong feelings as most people on here about cohabitation. When I first started keeping snakes, I was told by someone very knowleadgable that it was o.k. to keep females with females and males with males. I have done this many times without incident.

However, keeping a female with a male is a little different. I think a couple of people have tried to make this point, but weren't very direct. When a female lays a clutch, she loses alot of her body weight (around 30-50%). If she isnt given plenty of time to put this weight back on before she lays her next clutch, it could be fatal for her.

If you are gonna continue to keep your snakes in the same viv, you need to determine the sex of your snakes and monitor the weight of the female to make sure she is healthy enought to lay a clutch.

Both me and batwrangler left you links in this thread to Kathy Love's website. She both sells the tools you need and has video's posted on her website of how to sex.

Good luck. And pics of your snakes would be nice.

Rich in KY said:

I do not have the strong feelings as most people on here about cohabitation. When I first started keeping snakes, I was told by someone very knowleadgable that it was o.k. to keep females with females and males with males. I have done this many times without incident.

However, keeping a female with a male is a little different. I think a couple of people have tried to make this point, but weren't very direct. When a female lays a clutch, she loses alot of her body weight (around 30-50%). If she isnt given plenty of time to put this weight back on before she lays her next clutch, it could be fatal for her.

If you are gonna continue to keep your snakes in the same viv, you need to determine the sex of your snakes and monitor the weight of the female to make sure she is healthy enought to lay a clutch.

Both me and batwrangler left you links in this thread to Kathy Love's website. She both sells the tools you need and has video's posted on her website of how to sex.

Good luck. And pics of your snakes would be nice.

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Thank you, I don't have any pictures right now, but I'll take some and post them soon

Another quick questions, does it matter after the female has laid her second batch of eggs to keep them together?

Regardless of whether they are YOUR snakes or not, all animals follow a set of instincts and behaviors that are particular to their species. Granted, there are a few exceptions. Simply put, however, you do not have the knowledge to know, understand, and recognize those exceptions. To be a person who has said knowledge, you would have to have kept MANY corns over MANY years.

The only one who is "tongue-lashing" people is you. For the good of your snakes, I hope you sincerely consider everything that has been said in this thread. A great number of people who have commented have been on this forum for quite a while, have read numerous archived threads, and have soaked up the information from some of the most experienced and knowledgeable individuals in the world of cornsnakes. I suggest you learn from these people.

Your snakes might only be laying two clutches a year right now. As long as the conditions are right snakes will breed regardless of the season. If the female doesn't have enough time to recover after breeding there are many things that could go wrong which include becoming eggbound and dying. If you don't know when they bred (ie you put them together) you won't know when to watch for eggs. Your female could be dead before you ever knew she was gravid. We're not saying you can't breed your snakes - only that you should take a more active role in their breeding. Keeping weight records as well as breeding records is important for the health of both snakes (especially since males can easily go off feed during breeding season). Most people on these boards have been keeping snakes for years and have been reading the boards for just as long. Co-habbing can be done but most won't recommend it to a beginner (and just to let everyone know, I still consider myself a beginner to some extent - especially compared to some on the boards). Not to mention, if you know that you have a pair, why put their health at risk when you don't have to? I know some people on here cohab but I can't think of anyone that keeps a breeding pair together all the time.

~Katie

HaisseM said:

Thank you, I don't have any pictures right now, but I'll take some and post them soon

Another quick questions, does it matter after the female has laid her second batch of eggs to keep them together?

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Yes, it does still matter even if she's laid a second clutch. The male doesn't know she's "done for the year" and might still pester her to breed.

I personally have not yet bred corn snakes - but I do breed other reptiles, and my experience has been largely that the females of various species do better when they are not housed year-round with the males. They gain weight faster after laying their eggs, and they keep weight on during the non-breeding season. When I do introduce them for breeding to a male, I get more eggs and more fertile eggs because the female isn't constantly being harassed by the male to breed.

When my corns are old enough to breed, the female will be introduced to the male for a short time only, then put back into her own enclosure for the rest of the year. I don't even intend to try to double clutch my corns - I don't want them to take more out of themselves than I can easily put back in through appropriate feeding.

Ssthisto said:

When my corns are old enough to breed, the female will be introduced to the male for a short time only, then put back into her own enclosure for the rest of the year. I don't even intend to try to double clutch my corns - I don't want them to take more out of themselves than I can easily put back in through appropriate feeding.

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I'm sure you realize this but your snake can double or triple clutch even it has been introduced to the male once.

Threads like this makes me not want to ask any questions here.

DarbCal said:

Threads like this makes me not want to ask any questions here.

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Oh, it's all pretty harmless. This forum is much more helpful (and polite) to novice hobbyists than many I've seen.

Roy Munson said:

Oh, it's all pretty harmless. This forum is much more helpful (and polite) to novice hobbyists than many I've seen.

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I will agree. I have seen more flame :flames: related threads (elsewhere), but still yet it does nothing good for me.

DarbCal said:

I will agree. I have seen more flame related threads (elsewhere), but still yet it does nothing good for me.

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The tone of a thread is often set by how the original poster responds to the first few follow-ups.

batwrangler said:

The tone of a thread is often set by how the original poster responds to the first few follow-ups.

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I totally agree. It takes two to tango.

We have quote we use with students. "If one will not, two cannot quarrel." -Thomas Fuller

Btw, I teach Prek (4 year olds) to 2nd grade (7-8 years old).

Back to the topic at hand, sorry for the :-offtopic

batwrangler said:

The tone of a thread is often set by how the original poster responds to the first few follow-ups.

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And here I thought I was being nice at first..... I have to say, for the most part everyone just wants to help, its just communication skills/online everyone is the man/woman that mess things up. Let it be said I took nothing here personal and am grateful for the information i have recieved

People often forget that a majority of communication is now what we say but the tone with which we say it and our body language I believe its something like 7% of communication is what is actually said. That is why net communication often leads to miscommunication! The thing to remember is Mean what you say and say what you mean!

oh for god's sake! How FRUSTRATING it is when people come to you for advice and then argue with you if your advice, because you are more knowledgeable about many things pertaining to their original question, strays beyond the bounds of what they were asking you!

And yes, I meant that!

I've read this whole thread and I wanted to say something about it. Before I do, though, I want to make clear I'm really new to keeping snakes. I'm by no means an expert, so please don't take what I'm going to say as advice. I also don't mean to argue.

That being said, I'm not sure I understand why it'd be so bad to continue keeping the snakes together AS LONG AS CERTAIN CONDITIONS ARE MET. I would think that since the snakes have been together that long, it may be ok. If he gave them a brumation(sp?) period and monitored their weight constantly during breeding season(separating them if there's ANY problem) and made sure to feed them separately in separate containers(to be sure they're both eating), it might work. As long as all the conditions are right, the only problem I see(again, I'm just a beginner) would be possible cannibalism, and it's not even guaranteed they'll eat each other.

The people on this forum have helped me tremendously, so I recommend taking their advice on the care of your snakes. If anyone comes off harsh it's only because we all love snakes and want the absolute best for them.

desertanimal said:

oh for god's sake! How FRUSTRATING it is when people come to you for advice and then argue with you if your advice, because you are more knowledgeable about many things pertaining to their original question, strays beyond the bounds of what they were asking you!

And yes, I meant that!

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Dude, its people like you who ruin it for others. Some people always take things way to far..........

mommyof2 said:

I'm not sure I understand why it'd be so bad to continue keeping the snakes together AS LONG AS CERTAIN CONDITIONS ARE MET. I would think that since the snakes have been together that long, it may be ok. If he gave them a brumation(sp?) period and monitored their weight constantly during breeding season(separating them if there's ANY problem) and made sure to feed them separately in separate containers(to be sure they're both eating), it might work. As long as all the conditions are right, the only problem I see(again, I'm just a beginner) would be possible cannibalism, and it's not even guaranteed they'll eat each other.

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At this point I would normally say you're right, but the idea I'm getting from people is we can't tell what type of stress the snake is under at this point so we should take a more cautionary role and protect the snake as much as possible because it MIGHT happen and thats the last thing we want. Someone please correct me if i'm wrong

You have your snakes in captivity, this isn't the wild.

Therefore it is your duty as a pet owner to possibly avoid any scenarios which would ever put your snake in ill health.

Breeding won tonly and without the actual knowledge of what needs to be done, or what should be done falls under putting your snakes in ill consequences.

Granted you are finally coming to learn, but heed the advice, don't rebut it, otherwise you should not have come to us if you weren't willing to change your ways for the benifits of your pets.


Even those who do keep corns together have no logical reason why it benifits the snakes.
Just remember, cohabbing is NEVER benificial to the snake, only the owner.