Sex of Snakes....

[HaisseM]

So here is my story, I bought two corns snakes about 3 or more months apart a couple of years ago. One day I looked in the cage and noticed a batch of eggs (I got a breeding pair by accident) So I'm now on my 3rd batch (2 per Batch, 10+ eggs per batch) <--- hopefully that makes sense.

Anyways how can i tell which is the male and which is the female? One snake is considerably larger than the other??? I'm curious....

 

[susang]

For many reasons you should do a search on co-habitation on this forum. Unless you see who is laying the eggs it would be hard to tell, unless you have the snakes probed. What did you do with the eggs? Female corn snakes retain sperm so she could continue to lay until you seperate them, which you should do ASAP. It is very difficult on the female to continue to lay eggs. Also given you got them a couple years ago if they were babies when you got them, the female is probably already too young and too small, be laying eggs. susan

 

[tom e]

The female is probably really thin right now on her lower half.
The fact that you don't know who did what is a big reason why you shouldn't keep them together. There are lots and lots of other reasons and you can find them by using that search button and typing in cohabitation or try cohab.
There aren't many practices that are more contraversial here.. :santa:

 

[HaisseM]

For many reasons you should do a search on co-habitation on this forum. Unless you see who is laying the eggs it would be hard to tell, unless you have the snakes probed. What did you do with the eggs? Female corn snakes retain sperm so she could continue to lay until you seperate them, which you should do ASAP. It is very difficult on the female to continue to lay eggs. Also given you got them a couple years ago if they were babies when you got them, the female is probably already too young and too small, be laying eggs. susan

I normally keep the eggs in a container to help them hatch, from there, I sell them or give them away. Why would I want to separate them? They normally lay two batches of eggs every year so I'm ok with that.

Also why do you say they female is probably already too young and too small to be laying eggs? When i've had 3 batches already over the course of 3 years (this being the 3rd batch) and all eggs have hatched (well 10/12) of the very 1st batch

 

[HaisseM]

The female is probably really thin right now on her lower half.
The fact that you don't know who did what is a big reason why you shouldn't keep them together. There are lots and lots of other reasons and you can find them by using that search button and typing in cohabitation or try cohab.
There aren't many practices that are more contraversial here.. :santa:

did a search on cohabitation, and am a little confused what the fuss is about: but 1st -- I only have 2 snakes 1 male 1 female, they have always lived in the same tank and never had a problem with either. The are feed in two different tanks and I have a 40 gallon tank.... So i'm not sure if the fear of cohabitation is tied to my situation

 

[susang]

You said you've had them a couple years that usually means two years. I don't know how old they were when you got them. The general rule of thumb is the female should be 3 years old, weigh 300 grams and be 3 feet long. Again you don't make it clear how old these snakes are. Corn snakes are solitary reptiles, they dont' live in a community in the wild. While this is a controversial topic, I can't think of anyone who co-habits a male and female.
It's good you hatch the eggs out and find homes for the hatchlings, it is very hard on the female.
Just because you've had these snakes for two years doesn't make you a good keeper or your practices correct and then if you tell people who get your hatchlings these things you are spreading poor keeping habits.
You came on here asking a question on how to sex your snakes, obviously too late, but these are questions you should have asked in the beginning. Most people on this forum take raising snakes seriously and while it is a hobby for most we also want what is best for the snake. Most go out of thier way to put forth a better understanding of snakes in general.

 

[susang]

Just in case you keep babies for the first three feedings as most breeders do and further keep these hatchlings in the same tank, this link will show you what the big deal may be.
http://cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54120&highlight=cannibalism

 

[Rich in KY]

Anyways how can i tell which is the male and which is the female? One snake is considerably larger than the other??? I'm curious....

You cannot tell by the size of the snake. Right after the female lays the clutch she will be noticeably thin.

The only effective way to sex a snake is by probing. If there is a reptile expo somewhere near you, you may be able to get a breeder to probe for you. If not it can be a difficult techinique to master. You will need a probe set. Go here: http://www.cornutopia.com/Corn Utop...TS herp Cornutopia corn snakes cornsnakes.htm

There is also a link to watch probing being done.

I hope this helps.

 

[HaisseM]

You said you've had them a couple years that usually means two years. I don't know how old they were when you got them. The general rule of thumb is the female should be 3 years old, weigh 300 grams and be 3 feet long. Again you don't make it clear how old these snakes are. Corn snakes are solitary reptiles, they dont' live in a community in the wild. While this is a controversial topic, I can't think of anyone who co-habits a male and female.
It's good you hatch the eggs out and find homes for the hatchlings, it is very hard on the female.
Just because you've had these snakes for two years doesn't make you a good keeper or your practices correct and then if you tell people who get your hatchlings these things you are spreading poor keeping habits.
You came on here asking a question on how to sex your snakes, obviously too late, but these are questions you should have asked in the beginning. Most people on this forum take raising snakes seriously and while it is a hobby for most we also want what is best for the snake. Most go out of thier way to put forth a better understanding of snakes in general.

Please dont take what I say personally (thats how its coming across) While I understand everyone's concern, I'm still learning what is good and bad about my corn snakes. TO be honest I didn't even know I had a male and female until I hade eggs in my cage. I've had them longer than 2 years. I'd say at least 4 at this point, but like you said, that doesn't mean I'm a perfect inn keeper.

If you really want to help me do whats best for my snakes, instead of attacking my me, tell me what I'm doing wrong and why, so I can too better understand what I need to change and why... YOu seem like you have my snakes best interest at heart and I think thats awesome, so please don't just tell me what to do, tell me why so I can better understand it...

Thanks

 

[HaisseM]

You cannot tell by the size of the snake. Right after the female lays the clutch she will be noticeably thin.

The only effective way to sex a snake is by probing. If there is a reptile expo somewhere near you, you may be able to get a breeder to probe for you. If not it can be a difficult techinique to master. You will need a probe set. Go here: http://www.cornutopia.com/Corn Utop...TS herp Cornutopia corn snakes cornsnakes.htm

There is also a link to watch probing being done.

I hope this helps.

Thanks, I guess I can't say the larger is the male anymore......

 

[Jrgh17]

Please dont take what I say personally (thats how its coming across) While I understand everyone's concern, I'm still learning what is good and bad about my corn snakes. TO be honest I didn't even know I had a male and female until I hade eggs in my cage. I've had them longer than 2 years. I'd say at least 4 at this point, but like you said, that doesn't mean I'm a perfect inn keeper.

If you really want to help me do whats best for my snakes, instead of attacking my me, tell me what I'm doing wrong and why, so I can too better understand what I need to change and why... YOu seem like you have my snakes best interest at heart and I think thats awesome, so please don't just tell me what to do, tell me why so I can better understand it...

Thanks

Here are some of the reasons NOT to keep your snakes together:

1. Laying eggs is VERY stressful on the female's body. Letting her lay two clutches every year without closely monitoring her health can actually kill her.

2. If one of your snakes has a problem (regurge, etc) you won't be able to tell which one is sick. Also, they can easily spread illnesses/mites/etc.

3. Snakes are solitary animals by nature. When two snakes curl up together, they aren't cuddling, they're competing for the best spot. Being forced to interact with another snake is very stressful.

4. Cannibalism is rare, but it does happen. If you search the forums, you will see a few pictures.

There are many other reasons, so I sincerely hope you will take the time to search the forums.

 

[HaisseM]

Here are some of the reasons NOT to keep your snakes together:

1. Laying eggs is VERY stressful on the female's body. Letting her lay two clutches every year without closely monitoring her health can actually kill her.

Really? How woudl I monitor her health? What normally happens is, they make a little area and lay the eggs, then i find the eggs, what should i do in the future?

2. If one of your snakes has a problem (regurge, etc) you won't be able to tell which one is sick. Also, they can easily spread illnesses/mites/etc.

I have to admit my snakes have gotten sick before, when I first got them, one of them had mites so I had to clean the cage and soak them in i think it was warm water for a couple of hours (don't quote me on what i did) and i'd had one throw-up on me after eating a mouse (now that was nasty, the screaming really made it nasty- did people know snakes make noise when they throw-up)

3. Snakes are solitary animals by nature. When two snakes curl up together, they aren't cuddling, they're competing for the best spot. Being forced to interact with another snake is very stressful.

that makes sense, but like i said i have a 40 gallon tank with lots of hides and they both actually have their favorite spots to hang out

4. Cannibalism is rare, but it does happen. If you search the forums, you will see a few pictures.

Since i've never experienced that (EVER) i have to admit i think its like one of those 1/99999999 things that MIGHT happen, but does it make a difference if I have one male and one female? do they have the same chances of eating each other?

There are many other reasons, so I sincerely hope you will take the time to search the forums.

I've done that a couple of times and read over the info..... I couldn't find all the answers i was looking for, but you've given me great insight into why i should think about...

Thanks

 

[batwrangler]

Re: monitoring the female's health.

Laying eggs requires lots of energy and minerals from the female. The eggs will "rob" nutriants from her body and skeleton if she is not getting enough from her diet or if she isn't given time to gain weight and recover between breedings.

Some females will double clutch no matter what you do, but generally the way to avoid health risks to the female is to limit the number of breedings. The only way you can do that is to house your two snakes separately and to house them together only when deliberately breeding them.

You will also need a good, accurate scale to monitor her weight between breedings. This will also help you determine whether you are offering her sufficient prey items.

If you haven't already read Kathy Love's "Corn Snake Manual", Don Soderberg's "Corn Snakes in Captivity", and Philippe De Vosjoli "Art of Keeping Snakes", I highly recommend you do.

 

[Nastassja]

Birth is stressful and traumatic on most creatures on earth... It takes a significant amount of resources from the body of the mother to produce those eggs. If you don't rightfully know what you are doing, why do it at all?

By simply doing research before acquiring a new living creature that's going to depend on you for EVERYTHING, you can avoid some of the most simple mishaps. Snakes are not like dogs and cats that can give you pretty significant signs of anguish and distress. A snake will not cry when it feels unwell, it will sit there and look like it always does, and when it starts to actually give you signs, it's usually far too late for YOU to do anything and you'll need to take your animal to a vet.

It's your responsibility as a pet owner to know what your pet's needs are before you run out and start filling your house with them. That applies to any animal, not just a snake. It's irresponsible and life-threatening to the creatures that you hold under your care to not know at the very least the basics about your animals. IMHO, you've started your research FAR too late after having those snakes for 2-3 years-- without knowing what gender they are, cohabbing them, and overbreeding them.

I'm sorry that this sounds like a vicious tonguelashing, but I'm also sorry that your snakes have had to endure improper keeping practices, too. The internet is a wondrous place full of the right kind of information for you if you just take time out of your day to sit down and look for it. Batwrangler gave a list of books that you can also pick up from any general pet store, if you don't want to search the internet, those books should tell you everything you need.

 

[HaisseM]

Birth is stressful and traumatic on most creatures on earth... It takes a significant amount of resources from the body of the mother to produce those eggs. If you don't rightfully know what you are doing, why do it at all?

By simply doing research before acquiring a new living creature that's going to depend on you for EVERYTHING, you can avoid some of the most simple mishaps. Snakes are not like dogs and cats that can give you pretty significant signs of anguish and distress. A snake will not cry when it feels unwell, it will sit there and look like it always does, and when it starts to actually give you signs, it's usually far too late for YOU to do anything and you'll need to take your animal to a vet.

It's your responsibility as a pet owner to know what your pet's needs are before you run out and start filling your house with them. That applies to any animal, not just a snake. It's irresponsible and life-threatening to the creatures that you hold under your care to not know at the very least the basics about your animals. IMHO, you've started your research FAR too late after having those snakes for 2-3 years-- without knowing what gender they are, cohabbing them, and overbreeding them.

I'm sorry that this sounds like a vicious tonguelashing, but I'm also sorry that your snakes have had to endure improper keeping practices, too. The internet is a wondrous place full of the right kind of information for you if you just take time out of your day to sit down and look for it. Batwrangler gave a list of books that you can also pick up from any general pet store, if you don't want to search the internet, those books should tell you everything you need.

Since you are more than willing to give me a "tonguelashing", let me return the favor. While I may be new to these forums, you need to realize you don't know me from adam or eve, I understand their are lots of keyboard warriors out here, but these forums are supposed to be about educating someone about corn snakes not trying to belittle them into doing things your way. If i wanted to have insult contest i could very well visit sherdog/mma forums and post how fedor sucks (inside joke)

incase you haven't noticed i'm not a breeder who has lots of snakes running around. I'm your normal joe who HAPPENED to have a breeding pair. I only have 2 snakes, when they have eggs, i either sell them or give them away I don't do this for money i do this because i like my pets

What i'm trying to say is, don't come at me like that again. I don't mind education but watch they way you express yourself, you're not that important.

 

[susang]

Since you are more than willing to give me a "tonguelashing", let me return the favor. While I may be new to these forums, you need to realize you don't know me from adam or eve, I understand their are lots of keyboard warriors out here, but these forums are supposed to be about educating someone about corn snakes not trying to belittle them into doing things your way. If i wanted to have insult contest i could very well visit sherdog/mma forums and post how fedor sucks (inside joke)

incase you haven't noticed i'm not a breeder who has lots of snakes running around. I'm your normal joe who HAPPENED to have a breeding pair. I only have 2 snakes, when they have eggs, i either sell them or give them away I don't do this for money i do this because i like my pets

What i'm trying to say is, don't come at me like that again. I don't mind education but watch they way you express yourself, you're not that important.

First let me say we have all said pretty much the same things to you, while you say you want to learn the right way, you also don't want to hear what we are saying. I don't think anyone is a keyboard warrior or giving you tongue lashing. We are simply trying to tell you the way most people do it.
No you are not a breeder but as long as you are selling or giving snakes away, what you tell people makes you the "expert". Just so you also know you didn't just happen to get a breeding pair, you happened to get two animals and put them in a situation they should not have been in. As I said while some experienced people may co-hab females, no one allows a male and female to stay together, causing more stress on the female. Two males together at sexual maturity may fight.
The incidence of cannibalism is small, but does happen in hatchlings. How would you feel if you gave/sold someone two snakes, told them they could live in the same viv, and one ate the other in which case it is likely both will die.

 

[Nastassja]

I apologize if I sounded in any way concieted for the way I responded to the way you keep your animals.

I've seen all kinds of animals suffer because of general neglect, and ignorance to have done the proper research and proper care that could've been avoided if it had just been done properly before the animals were acquired or at the time they were acquired. Even such simple and widely kept animals like dogs and cats. It just makes me a little frustrated and angry. Labelling yourself an "average joe" doesn't clear yourself from the responsibility of properly keeping an exotic animal though.

But because you're willing to make the changes necessary to make those animals happy now is great. I know that if you browse the forums for a while you'll learn a lot about the snakes you have and can do lots more for their well-being.

I'm really very passionate about animals and keeping them, and I know a lot of other people on this forum are just as passionate if not more... I may have been socially out of line to step up and say what was on my mind.. I'm sorry that's offended you.

Maybe I just read this kind of thing at the wrong time, it may be PMS, but I really am a nice person, and I promise to treat you with the proper respect you deserve as a fellow owner. :}

 

[Nanci]

My favorite quote about cohabitation: "There's never a problem with cohabitation until there's a problem."-Janine

Since you've got a big 40 gallon, could you just divide it down the middle and cohabitate no more?

Nanci

 

[HaisseM]

First let me say we have all said pretty much the same things to you, while you say you want to learn the right way, you also don't want to hear what we are saying. I don't think anyone is a keyboard warrior or giving you tongue lashing. We are simply trying to tell you the way most people do it.
No you are not a breeder but as long as you are selling or giving snakes away, what you tell people makes you the "expert". Just so you also know you didn't just happen to get a breeding pair, you happened to get two animals and put them in a situation they should not have been in. As I said while some experienced people may co-hab females, no one allows a male and female to stay together, causing more stress on the female. Two males together at sexual maturity may fight.
The incidence of cannibalism is small, but does happen in hatchlings. How would you feel if you gave/sold someone two snakes, told them they could live in the same viv, and one ate the other in which case it is likely both will die.

Look, i do understand what everyone is saying, i woudn't be on here asking questions if i didn't have questions, but something to remember I never asked about cohabitition I asked if there was a way to tell which snake was a male or female. While i do appreciate people informing me what is highly successful to them, I don't need people telling me I have no clue what i'm doing. As far as a situation they should not be in, I don't think you can really decided if MY snakes are in a bad situation. ENOUGH SAID.

 

[HaisseM]

My favorite quote about cohabitation: "There's never a problem with cohabitation until there's a problem."-Janine

Since you've got a big 40 gallon, could you just divide it down the middle and cohabitate no more?

Nanci

I understand this seems to be a really big stigma here (cohabitation) but is it really necessary to split them now? The one thing I've gotten from all these, is next year during mating season and after/before they have another batch of eggs, I need to keep them in seperate tanks...

I read somewhere at this point to remove the pairs might actually cause more stress at this time.