Chat room - listen up, please

CMLReptiles · Nov 5, 2006

If you want a simple explanation of why people went to another chat...its this simple. 2 or 3 people got sick of people from fauna disrupting chat, and made their own. they told a regular or 2, and word spread. Personally, I went to that chat for 1 reason...NOBODY was using cs.com for chat. why sit in an empty room when there's a room with 10 people in it that you know?

And again, I really don't see why this is still being discussed. The same things are being said over and over, neither side is budging, neither side is gonna say "I'm wrong, you're right" and back down, and neither side is gonna stop till that's said. Just end the conversation, and let the whole chat thing work itself out.

And Rich, as far as the chat goes...it's gonna come down to this: if people from fauna come into cs chat and are rude, and go off on tyraids like that, and nothing happens to them, it's gonna tick off people on here, especially paid contributors. Yes, I'm a paid contributor, and the actions of fuana people and this thread combined to make me go elsewhere...but I do still come into cs chat when there are people there to talk to. And what really got under our skin, was what, 2 people said "GFTO" and we got this treatment...and look at what was said by joe. last I checked, GTFO was rude, yes, but wasn't an obvious violation of the rules...what joe said was...just my .02

Drizzt80 · Nov 5, 2006

Taceas said:
This thread killed chat for me as well. And like Dean, not because of you per se, but all of the other people who put on their "holier-than-thou" britches and joined in on the bashing when they were some of the worst behaved people in chat themselves. I don't like two-faced people, and this thread exposed those people to me. So I don't care to chat with them any further.

I would hope you would stop for one second from all of this petty selfishness and see the truth and honesty of a lot of these people that are bucking the system right now. We're not trying to be a pain in your side or trying to be trouble makers, we're trying to get answers and be listened to. After all, that's why most of us left Kingsnake 3+ years ago and came here, to be listened to and not shoved under the rug for disagreement, perhaps you forgot that.

Concerning the first paragraph: A. Maybe those people saw the error of their ways (ie. jazzgeek) or B. Maybe you perceive thsoe people as having been more misbehaved then they actuall were, or C. You're being very judgemental (holier than thou yourself) and not realizing Rich wants EVERYONE to behave troll or otherwise.

Concernign the second paragraph: A. I thought it wasn't about "bucking the system", and B. Show me exactly where Rich has done anything remotely similar to Jeffy over at Kingsnake.com. """"You all"""" complain about censorship over at KS.com AND complain about NON-censorship at CS.com. Which is it? :shrugs: Or is it just the fact that """"You all"""" don't have control over who is or isn't censored?

So now has it come to KS.com vs CS.com vs """Secret Corn Society.com"""?? What's next?

D80

Drizzt80 · Nov 5, 2006

CMLReptiles said:
If you want a simple explanation of why people went to another chat...its this simple. 2 or 3 people got sick of people from fauna disrupting chat, and made their own. they told a regular or 2, and word spread. Personally, I went to that chat for 1 reason...NOBODY was using cs.com for chat. why sit in an empty room when there's a room with 10 people in it that you know?

IF it's ONLY about CHAT . . . where have quite a few of the regular thread/forum posters at CS.com gone . . . ??!!

D80

CMLReptiles · Nov 5, 2006

Drizzt80 said:
IF it's ONLY about CHAT . . . where have quite a few of the regular thread/forum posters at CS.com gone . . . ??!!

D80

Well, all forums go thru this eventually. At some point, all the "normal" questions are answered, and the "experts" get sick of answering them. I have no ill-will or bad feelings towards this site other than being a little upset w/ the way things have happened since this thread started...but even I don't post that much except in general chit-chat, occasionally in misc corn chat and in the photo gallery.

And quite honestly, at the risk of a ban, if there are people who don't wanna post here cause of a pissing contest or what they took to be a personal attack...screw them! Let them go cry in their cheerios, the site's better off. (side note: I have no specific people this is pointed to, nor does this mean I have any personal hatred towards these people)

Rich Z · Nov 5, 2006

CMLReptiles said:
And Rich, as far as the chat goes...it's gonna come down to this: if people from fauna come into cs chat and are rude, and go off on tyraids like that, and nothing happens to them, it's gonna tick off people on here, especially paid contributors. Yes, I'm a paid contributor, and the actions of fuana people and this thread combined to make me go elsewhere...but I do still come into cs chat when there are people there to talk to. And what really got under our skin, was what, 2 people said "GFTO" and we got this treatment...and look at what was said by joe. last I checked, GTFO was rude, yes, but wasn't an obvious violation of the rules...what joe said was...just my .02

OK, show me the tirade you are referring to. If it is a chat log, how about it if I ban EVERYONE there who reasonable could be considered as being rude or going off on a tirade? That means BOTH sides, of course. That sounds fair to me. How about you? Just show me the evidence, or should I just refer to those chat logs copied within this thread?

Oh and another thing. Please show me those "rules" you are referring to. I don't remember making any here........ :shrugs:

jazzgeek · Nov 5, 2006

Every time I think I'm out.....they PULL me back in! < /Corleone>

Taceas said:
I liken it to Cheers, the tv-show.

Speaking as the one who was greeted as "Norm!!!" when I came into chat, I'm now compelled to respond.

Given that I now have two places to chat, I now liken it to Wal-Mart and Macy's, as I just stated in person to the ones who developed the "new" place. One venue serves the needs of the larger base, the "masses" if you will, while the other serves the needs of a smaller, more specialized "market" who already have the "basics" taken care of. Both have a purpose, and serve them well.

Another analogy that keeps popping into my head is the difference between a Virgin Records Megastore and "Championship Vinyl", the record store from the John Cusack/Jack Black movie "High Fidelity". The guys looking for Stevie Wonder's "I Just Called To Say I Love You" are better served at the megastore, and the die-hard snobs/geeks/elitists/wonks looking for original Frank Zappa releases hang out at the latter. I have NO issue being labeled a wonk/snob/elitist over something that I'm passionate about, and OBVIOUSLY have no problem being tagged a geek.

As with the other analogy, both venues serve their purpose.

This thread killed chat for me as well. And like Dean, not because of you per se, but all of the other people who put on their "holier-than-thou" britches and joined in on the bashing when they were some of the worst behaved people in chat themselves. I don't like two-faced people, and this thread exposed those people to me. So I don't care to chat with them any further.

Given:

You and I used to regularly exchange pleasantries in chat, Misty...
My position I've taken all along this thread, in spite of (or even perhaps because of) what I've said that's apparent in the transcripts
Since this thread, you've not said a word to me in chat

....I'm confident that I've been categorized here as one of, if not the ONLY "two-faced" person with the holier-than-thou pantaloons.

To which I'll respond:

I have admitted regret to my comment to clarinet in chat. In other words, I know when I'm wrong, and will admit as such. I look forward to seeing the same from you, whenever that day will come.
Having admitted as such, I've held the position that we should be better at handling trolls in chat, lest we lose the privilege Rich has given us. In light of that, a new chatroom was created and has been utilized. I think that's great. It's the free market at work. As long as they're available to me, I'll continue to utilize both venues, in one as the "new guy" when it comes to breeding projects, and in the other as the "experienced guy" when it comes to husbandry practices.
As for the "two-faced" contention, I'll reiterate what I've stated all along, especially in/since the "Joe Pierce" thread, to wit:

Civility rocks. Keep it civil, and so will I.
Once I've gotten to know someone and understand their tolerance for "give and take", some good-natured ribbing will ensue. If it goes too far on either end, I'd expect honest, bilateral communication about the transgression.....and the cycle continues, with additional knowledge. That's how friendships are formed and nurtured.
If there is obvious attitude, it will be returned in kind. If it escalates, I'll punch you in the soul. I've been involved with online communications when "state of the art" was moving from a 300 baud telephone modem to 1200 baud. I have the ability to insult people without their being cognizant of it......I only wish this skill could be included in a Curriculum Vitae.

Given this constancy, how is it "two-faced"??

regards,
jazz

Drizzt80 · Nov 5, 2006

CMLReptiles said:
Well, all forums go thru this eventually. At some point, all the "normal" questions are answered, and the "experts" get sick of answering them. I have no ill-will or bad feelings towards this site other than being a little upset w/ the way things have happened since this thread started...but even I don't post that much except in general chit-chat, occasionally in misc corn chat and in the photo gallery.

And quite honestly, at the risk of a ban, if there are people who don't wanna post here cause of a pissing contest or what they took to be a personal attack...screw them! Let them go cry in their cheerios, the site's better off. (side note: I have no specific people this is pointed to, nor does this mean I have any personal hatred towards these people)

Can't disagree with you at all. I'm just miffed by the 'run away' behavior as opposed to a 'let's try to fix it' reaction. You are going to run into people you disagree with all through life wherever you go. I've had numerous heated discussions with people both 'real life' and on internet forums. Can't recall one person that I've run away from and ignored forever . . . even if it's meant agreeing to disagree. :shrugs: I also can't understand how """possibly starting over""" is better than what is already here?! I mean what transgression has Rich imposed that's so terrible? Especially when compared to KS.com?!? I'm not saying this is Utopia for corn owners here, and I'm not arguing against other forums being in existence, that will always be the case. I just expected more from some individuals I guess? I'm not even sure who to direct those comments at to be honest, but there's a noticeable lack of ""leadership"" (?) so to speak from some long standing regulars around here. :shrugs:

D80

CMLReptiles · Nov 5, 2006

Rich Z said:
OK, show me the tirade you are referring to. If it is a chat log, how about it if I ban EVERYONE there who reasonable could be considered as being rude or going off on a tirade? That means BOTH sides, of course. That sounds fair to me. How about you? Just show me the evidence, or should I just refer to those chat logs copied within this thread?

Oh and another thing. Please show me those "rules" you are referring to. I don't remember making any here........ :shrugs:

hmmm...lets see, "gtfo, this is a cornsnake chat" is met with "you c***suckers" ect ect...but no, that wasn't a tirade, not at all...

You didn't ban anybody, but you also didn't really do anything about the other side, while we got a royal b**ching over here in this thread...fair?

And as for rules...if there aren't any, then why was this thread even started? if there aren't any rules, why do you care? I'll have to start swearing for no particular reason ranting and raving about how much fauna people suck in language fit only for a grungy nightclub next time I see you in chat to test this.

Rich Z · Nov 5, 2006

CMLReptiles said:
hmmm...lets see, "gtfo, this is a cornsnake chat" is met with "you c***suckers" ect ect...but no, that wasn't a tirade, not at all...

You didn't ban anybody, but you also didn't really do anything about the other side, while we got a royal b**ching over here in this thread...fair?

And as for rules...if there aren't any, then why was this thread even started? if there aren't any rules, why do you care? I'll have to start swearing for no particular reason ranting and raving about how much fauna people suck in language fit only for a grungy nightclub next time I see you in chat to test this.

Don't take the quotes out of context. SOMETHING got that person pissed off enough to go off on a tirade. Sorry, but I don't believe for an instant that there was "no particular reason" for what was said.

As for rules, I think I am entitled to try to resolve issues and problems as they arise without having some formal TOS that people will split hairs in order to try to circumvent. THIS thread was posted because I saw the need to do so in order to STOP behavior I considered inappropriate from people I would have expected more from. Obviously the time had come to tell THEM so.

CMLReptiles · Nov 5, 2006

Rich Z said:
Don't take the quotes out of context. SOMETHING got that person pissed off enough to go off on a tirade. Sorry, but I don't believe for an instant that there was "no particular reason" for what was said.

As for rules, I think I am entitled to try to resolve issues and problems as they arise without having some formal TOS that people will split hairs in order to try to circumvent. THIS thread was posted because I saw the need to do so in order to STOP behavior I considered inappropriate from people I would have expected more from. Obviously the time had come to tell THEM so.

And SOMETHING got the group of regulars pissed off enough to say something to him. Sorry, but I don't believe for an instant there was "no particular reason" for what was said by EITHER side.

The person had been in the room trolling on previous occasions. His reaction was WAY out of line, regardless of what happened. It's like in traffic...if you cut somebody off, and they give you the finger, and you chase them thru traffic for 20 minutes...you're still an idiot. did they have to give you the finger? no...but it still doesn't excuse your reaction. a simple "dude, wtf?" would have been a reasonable reaction to being told "gtfo this is a corn chat". And I think there-in lies the problem...you don't appear to give a rats ass about our side of it.

Drizzt80 · Nov 5, 2006

CMLReptiles said:
And I think there-in lies the problem...you don't appear to give a rats ass about our side of it.

. . . again I personally ask the question:

Drizzt80 said:
Since when did someone else's negative behavior make it alright for anyone else to behave badly. :shrugs:

The behaviors on either side cannot be defended. As members of CS.com how do we make it better without arguing about which side is right? As carol stated we're supposed to have moved on from that point. How do we fix that which has been broken? It seems as though it's not just chat any longer that is broken. :shrugs:

D80

CMLReptiles · Nov 5, 2006

Drizzt80 said:
. . .

The behaviors on either side cannot be defended. As members of CS.com how do we make it better without arguing about which side is right? As carol stated we're supposed to have moved on from that point. How do we fix that which has been broken? It seems as though it's not just chat any longer that is broken. :shrugs:

D80

do 2 wrongs make a right? no. But look at it this way...again, the road rage scenario...you give somebody the finger, and he chases you across town trying to run you off the road. you call the cops and it takes them 20 min to get there. They finally catch up, and after talking to the driver chasing you, come back an issue you a ticket for failure to yield the right of way, yell at you for flipping the bird, and let the other guy go without so much as a "you can't chase people"....how would you feel?

Well, that's how we feel...

jazzgeek · Nov 5, 2006

CMLReptiles said:
again, the road rage scenario...<snip>....how would you feel?

Old Vaudeville Routine:

"Doctor, Doctor......it hurts when I do this."

"Well....don't do that!"

Well, that's how we feel...

I'm the spokesman of me.

regards,
jazz

CMLReptiles · Nov 5, 2006

jazzgeek said:
I'm the spokesman of me.

regards,
jazz

Very good point. Yes, I made a general statement and shouldn't have, but I felt it was a good analogy. And as for "it hurts when I do this..."...well, not doing it led to more problems. We got annoyed with going into chat and getting trolled, so we went somewhere else we wouldn't get trolled....and now we're getting crap for doing that :shrugs:

Rich Z · Nov 5, 2006

Regardless, BOTH sides are in the wrong. That's why I threw this warning flag on the field. And apparently one team just got in a huff and walked off the field because of it.

Oh well......... Guess it is my fault for expecting more from the home team, eh?

How many times do I have to mention that I have banned quite a few people for their behavior in the chat room before any of the "we" gets it to sink in?

jazzgeek · Nov 5, 2006

CMLReptiles said:
...and now we're getting crap for doing that :shrugs:

Point taken, there. As I've stated, I kinda like the freedom of choice....the free market....apple pie.....hot dogs (ok, chili dogs).....puppies.....America.

Anyone who doesn't use both chats to their fullest IS A GODDURNED COMMIE PINKO FAG.

And that's all I have to say about that.

regards,
jazz.....Ammuricun

CMLReptiles · Nov 5, 2006

jazzgeek said:
Point taken, there. As I've stated, I kinda like the freedom of choice....the free market....apple pie.....hot dogs (ok, chili dogs).....puppies.....America.

Anyone who doesn't use both chats to their fullest IS A GODDURNED COMMIE PINKO FAG.

And that's all I have to say about that.

regards,
jazz.....Ammuricun

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to jazzgeek again.

Drizzt80 · Nov 5, 2006

CMLReptiles said:
do 2 wrongs make a right? no. But look at it this way...again, the road rage scenario...y

Well, that's how we feel...

Let's look at hockey. 9 times out of 10 the retaliator gets put in the penalty box. Bummer, but don't retaliate and you won't end up in the penalty box. It may be easier said than done, but you know what, too bad. That's life. If you don't want to get in trouble, don't screw up.

Jazz, I like that: "I'm the spokesman of me."

So . . . how do WE fix it?!
D80

CMLReptiles · Nov 5, 2006

Drizzt80 said:
Let's look at hockey. 9 times out of 10 the retaliator gets put in the penalty box. Bummer, but don't retaliate and you won't end up in the penalty box. It may be easier said than done, but you know what, too bad. That's life. If you don't want to get in trouble, don't screw up.

Jazz, I like that: "I'm the spokesman of me."

So . . . how do WE fix it?!
D80

True...don't retaliate and everything is ok. But look at the school bully scenario...if you don't retaliate, the bullying never stops. Sometimes, you need to retaliate, and to hell w/ the consequences. But sometimes, when you retaliate, you expect the authority figure to atleast look at both sides. When you have a group of people who are known to be very friendly and easy going, suddenly go wolf-pack and attack somebody...hmmmm, maybe a reason?

And as for how do "we" fix it...at this point, there's no fixing it. What would have fixed it in the begining would have been if joe_jo had gotten some form of punishment, even if it was just a 3 day ban. but nothing was done. Yea, in hockey, football, and most sports, the retaliator is punished...but they don't look at the replay and decide who's punished...rich had the replay, and in his replay, joe_jo was the retaliator. At this point, the best thing is to simply delete this thread, move on, and act like it never happened. neither side is gonna give in, nobody is gonna win.

jazzgeek · Nov 5, 2006

I want both of you to look at the example of school bullies playing hockey....just to watch both of your heads asplode. :sidestep:

regards,
jazz

Chat room - listen up, please

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