-
Hello!
Either you have not registered on this site yet, or you are registered but have not logged in. In either case, you will not be able to use the full functionality of this site until you have registered, and then logged in after your registration has been approved.
Registration is FREE, so please register so you can participate instead of remaining a lurker....
Please be certain that the location field is correctly filled out when you register. All registrations that appear to be bogus will be rejected. Which means that if your location field does NOT match the actual location of your registration IP address, then your registration will be rejected.
Sorry about the strictness of this requirement, but it is necessary to block spammers and scammers at the door as much as possible.
Chat room - listen up, please
- Thread starter Rich Z
- Start date
- Status
CMLReptiles
Hooah!
Drizzt80 said:
Actually, the majority of bullies don't have ego's, but rather have severe self-esteem issues, which is where the bullying comes from...they need other people to feel like crap in order for them to feel better.
Since my name was brought into this mess as "why isn't the moderator I appointed enough/doing her job?", I'd just like to say that I'm assuming I am no longer a moderator or something is broken, so don't expect me to be able to help.
I've sent following email to Rich:
Just to let you know, I tried to activate the mod status in chat when someone was getting annoying to warn them to calm down, but the pass key didn't work. I'm assuming you've changed it, which as I said is fine by me, so I won't waste my time sitting in the room waiting to see if moderation is necessary. If that isn't the case, then this email is to let you know that it isn't working. If you want me to moderate, let me know, otherwise, we'll call it a done deal.
So, I will consider myself not involved in this shaggy dog thread any longer.
I've sent following email to Rich:
Just to let you know, I tried to activate the mod status in chat when someone was getting annoying to warn them to calm down, but the pass key didn't work. I'm assuming you've changed it, which as I said is fine by me, so I won't waste my time sitting in the room waiting to see if moderation is necessary. If that isn't the case, then this email is to let you know that it isn't working. If you want me to moderate, let me know, otherwise, we'll call it a done deal.
So, I will consider myself not involved in this shaggy dog thread any longer.
Drizzt80
Dakota Corns
Hence needing their ego stroked. I teach 8th graders . . . see it every day!CMLReptiles said:
The point of my post was that bullying isn't just the obvious playground bully that pushes and shoves and dominates, but also the wolf in sheeps clothing. Both will leave and go elsewhere when they aren't getting what they want. And yes, there may be some collateral damage to yourself in the process depending on YOUR reaction to the bullying.D80
PS. And Joe, you are correct. They were ignored by just about everyone and left fairly quickly when they didn't get the attention they were looking for. They even chose a pacifier icon!
OK, so why don't you see it this way for the home team? That poor Fauna person is being attacked because the chat log was taken out of context, and he must have had a valid reason for flying off the handle and acting that way. So why don't you believe that Joe Jo acted for no particular reason but cornsnake people did? You keep justifying their actions. However when it comes to the bad behavior of the home team, you firmly believe it was without "particular reason"?Rich Z said:
It's quite obvious you've stopped to think that something legetimately bad caused a Fauna person to loose it. Have you ever once stopped to think that something legetimately bad caused cornsnake people to loose it?
You can say what provisions you put in place all you want but I guess we won't hear it any more than you will hear that they just weren't enough. So we're even.
As far as another chat room.... people will go where they have an more enjoyable experience, they won't go somewhere just to spite you, especially if your chat room really had a lot going for it. If you believe those 15-20 people were invited somewhere else, and actually went.... wouldn't that be because they thought it was a better place to be? Or did they just all do it because they wanted a place to go where they could have no rules and have an evening of bashing any trolls that came in? Rich, I guess I can now say this thread ruined chat for me. Originally, I'd say it was the trolls. However, everything I have read you post screams; I've done all the maintenance I'm willing to do with the chatroom. If you all be nice everything will go well. If trolls become a bother, it's our own problem and most likely our own fault. Or we can report it to you and you will promptly ban them the next day, when we are no longer in chat and it doesn't really matter anymore. If the following day a troll comes in, we can report it to you and you will ban them the next day when it doesn't matter anymore. If the following day....(insert eternity here). If Fauna people behave badly, there must be a good reason. If Cornsnake people act badly, it's because we are all anarchist jerks.
I haven't seen any evidence that you believe further steps need to be taken to keep chat an enjoyable place. I also see that there are quite a few people in chat tonight. I guess it will go great from here on out because you got your numbers, and all us trouble makers are gone.
One last post on the subject and I'm off. Thank you Rich for your reply about it probably being a bug or due to the server crashing.
After thinking it through I don't feel I wish to be involved or associated with the chat room any further, and I'm sure people will understand that, so I respectfully step down as moderator, as explained in my email below.
Rich,
Thanks for the email back, I had wondered if the server messup had anything to do with it, but wasn't certain if you just got fed up with the whole deal and yoinked the password. After thinking through this, I think I'd like to take this opportunity to step down as moderator as I don't want to be involved with all off the mess going on right now. I'm sure you and everyone will understand.
If you don't wish to change the password, and it does get to working again, not to worry. I can have selective amnesia and would not abuse the knowledge. Thanks for granting me the ability to moderate as it was needed (and I believe still strongly is), but I don't think I can do the position justice as I doubt I will be in the room frequently enough.
Thanks,
Connie
After thinking it through I don't feel I wish to be involved or associated with the chat room any further, and I'm sure people will understand that, so I respectfully step down as moderator, as explained in my email below.
Rich,
Thanks for the email back, I had wondered if the server messup had anything to do with it, but wasn't certain if you just got fed up with the whole deal and yoinked the password. After thinking through this, I think I'd like to take this opportunity to step down as moderator as I don't want to be involved with all off the mess going on right now. I'm sure you and everyone will understand.
If you don't wish to change the password, and it does get to working again, not to worry. I can have selective amnesia and would not abuse the knowledge. Thanks for granting me the ability to moderate as it was needed (and I believe still strongly is), but I don't think I can do the position justice as I doubt I will be in the room frequently enough.
Thanks,
Connie
Well Carol, I am sorry that you think I am too stupid to know what went on in the chat room. I just read the chat log snippet again, and it's pretty obvious to anyone with more than two brain cells rubbing together what happened.
If any of you find my stance objectionable, based on the evidence that was provided to me, then I guess that is just the way it is going to be. I stand by my assessment of the facts presented to me.
If those members feel that that have the right to act like that did in those chat log snippets and are incensed that I disagree, then yes, by all means go elsewhere. I do not want that sort of activity here, and if it comes part and parcel with anyone's participation, then I will suffer along without it being here.
As for my provisions put in place not being enough, well I guess that's certainly my fault in that I didn't anticipate otherwise intelligent and mature members deciding to revert to pre-adolescent mindsets when left unattended in the chat room and someone enters there not to their liking. Sorry I just couldn't be the daddy figure there and keep them all in line.
So now there is NO moderator in the chat room, so I guess things may possibly get interesting there. But heck, it seemed to run along fine before I put a moderator in, so I guess perhaps there isn't going to be much difference at all there. But if anyone can't control themselves without the guidance of a moderator, perhaps it is best they find something else more structured and controlled to do with themselves with their spare time.
So in a nutshell, use the chat or don't. That is up to you. Anything else I say further on this matter would likely just be redundant, so I don't need to go down that street again.
If any of you find my stance objectionable, based on the evidence that was provided to me, then I guess that is just the way it is going to be. I stand by my assessment of the facts presented to me.
If those members feel that that have the right to act like that did in those chat log snippets and are incensed that I disagree, then yes, by all means go elsewhere. I do not want that sort of activity here, and if it comes part and parcel with anyone's participation, then I will suffer along without it being here.
As for my provisions put in place not being enough, well I guess that's certainly my fault in that I didn't anticipate otherwise intelligent and mature members deciding to revert to pre-adolescent mindsets when left unattended in the chat room and someone enters there not to their liking. Sorry I just couldn't be the daddy figure there and keep them all in line.
So now there is NO moderator in the chat room, so I guess things may possibly get interesting there. But heck, it seemed to run along fine before I put a moderator in, so I guess perhaps there isn't going to be much difference at all there. But if anyone can't control themselves without the guidance of a moderator, perhaps it is best they find something else more structured and controlled to do with themselves with their spare time.
So in a nutshell, use the chat or don't. That is up to you. Anything else I say further on this matter would likely just be redundant, so I don't need to go down that street again.
El Jefe
Mark 16:18
Joejr14 said:LOL, Yeah. That's exactly what happened, Rich.
Has this not been explained enough?
Sorry Joe...it may have happened with some...but I did not get a blanket email or PM with an invitation.
Perhaps it is because I have no friends and no one invited me to the 'other' chat.
However, I did find it on my own surfing on day on another site and was welcomed into chat with open arms and lots of hugs. I do have to agree with Jazz here....jazzgeek said:
Well maybe not to the passionate extent he does but somewhere around there... :crazy02:
Well for the record, I don't think you are stupid. I just think you are so focused on one problem that you don't see the other. Perhaps a "too close to the tree" situation. This statement here "But heck, it seemed to run along fine before I put a moderator in" proves to me you just don't see it. You admit that context is everything in understanding a situation. Your assessment of one of the problems captured in that log is absolutely correct. However that one little log was not enough to shed light on the big picture. There was a second problem that lead up to that, and followed that. I was just hoping to get the second problem addressed with as much gusto as the first.Rich Z said:
I went in to chat a quite a few times after this thread. Quite often the "troll instigators" that you are so convinced are the only reason we have trolls were not present. Trolls kept coming into the room and set up camp even when they were greeted nicely and dealt with maturely. That is what changed my opinion in this thread. If you go take a look back you can see I was all for your approach in the beginning of this thread. So what changed my mind? Going into chat an experiencing the trolls. And by "troll" I don't mean someone who wants to talk about something besides corns. Heck, I only talk about corns about 5% of the time in chat. I'm talking about people coming in to bash cornsnakes and cornkeepers and to continue to tell us why what they keep is better. They would refuse to leave whether they were provoked or not. It would kind of be like us going to a mouse forum and telling everyone there they spend way too much time with snake food. And why am I so vocal? Because I felt like spending my time picking a fight with Rich Z about a problem I decide to make up or because I care about this site and I see a problem that's being completely overlooked?
I think it's sad that bad behavior by a very small group of chat users has turned your ear off to all the rest of us that had nothing to do with it. It's also sad to see a beloved member who you even agree is pretty "level headed" lose hope and you still don't think it's necessary to take a step back to even consider the idea that there just may be something to our actions. Something that has absolutely nothing to do with spite, bitterness, elitism, taking sides or the desire for a place where we can be nasty to trolls. I'm sorry to see you think we are that shallow after all our years of contribution.
But you have spoken and like you said, I guess that's the way it's going to be.
Last edited:
Russell
New member
yep...
was in the chat room just yesterday. And someone came in and asked if someone "bruminated" their baby corns. I simply said, it's brumate not bruminate. And immediately I get nasty reply how it's still the same word regardless. A total attitude! And the person left. And the other person in the room and I talked about how rude that was! I did NOT goad the troll to be a troll! And you wonder why some of us get this attitude with newbies? Cause we have gotten sick of sticking our neck out to be nice just to get it ripped out? I'm sick of playing nice guy! Let them try to EARN my respect and advice first! I do it that way at work, why would I not do it here on the forums?
End of story...this dead horse has long since been put six feet under, it's now fossilized, geez! Nothing is going to change the minds of anyone at this point. So let it all drop for now. Move on with our lives. And maybe in time, well, we'll just see what happens ok?
Let's just go on chatting and discussing as WE always have. And hopefully this hatchet will long be buried and left alone.
was in the chat room just yesterday. And someone came in and asked if someone "bruminated" their baby corns. I simply said, it's brumate not bruminate. And immediately I get nasty reply how it's still the same word regardless. A total attitude! And the person left. And the other person in the room and I talked about how rude that was! I did NOT goad the troll to be a troll! And you wonder why some of us get this attitude with newbies? Cause we have gotten sick of sticking our neck out to be nice just to get it ripped out? I'm sick of playing nice guy! Let them try to EARN my respect and advice first! I do it that way at work, why would I not do it here on the forums?
End of story...this dead horse has long since been put six feet under, it's now fossilized, geez! Nothing is going to change the minds of anyone at this point. So let it all drop for now. Move on with our lives. And maybe in time, well, we'll just see what happens ok?
Let's just go on chatting and discussing as WE always have. And hopefully this hatchet will long be buried and left alone.
carol said:Well for the record, I don't think you are stupid. I just think you are so focused on one problem that you don't see the other. Perhaps a "too close to the tree" situation. This statement here "But heck, it seemed to run along fine before I put a moderator in" proves to me you just don't see it. You admit that context is everything in understanding a situation. Your assessment of one of the problems captured in that log is absolutely correct. However that one little log was not enough to shed light on the big picture. There was a second problem that lead up to that, and followed that. I was just hoping to get the second problem addressed with as much gusto as the first.
I went in to chat a quite a few times after this thread. Quite often the "troll instigators" that you are so convinced are the only reason we have trolls were not present. Trolls kept coming into the room and set up camp even when they were greeted nicely and dealt with maturely. That is what changed my opinion in this thread. If you go take a look back you can see I was all for your approach in the beginning of this thread. So what changed my mind? Going into chat an experiencing the trolls. And by "troll" I don't mean someone who wants to talk about something besides corns. Heck, I only talk about corns about 5% of the time in chat. I'm talking about people coming in to bash cornsnakes and cornkeepers and to continue to tell us why what they keep is better. They would refuse to leave whether they were provoked or not. It would kind of be like us going to a mouse forum and telling everyone there they spend way too much time with snake food. And why am I so vocal? Because I felt like spending my time picking a fight with Rich Z about a problem I decide to make up or because I care about this site and I see a problem that's being completely overlooked?
I think it's sad that bad behavior by a very small group of chat users has turned your ear off to all the rest of us that had nothing to do with it. It's also sad to see a beloved member who you even agree is pretty "level headed" lose hope and you still don't think it's necessary to take a step back to even consider the idea that there just may be something to our actions. Something that has absolutely nothing to do with spite, bitterness, elitism, taking sides or the desire for a place where we can be nasty to trolls. I'm sorry to see you think we are that shallow after all our years of contribution.
But you have spoken and like you said, I guess that's the way it's going to be.
OK, Carol, so tell me, what would YOU have done in my shoes to try to correct those problems?
I'm not sure what the software limitations are but here was my suggestion.
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showpost.php?p=357952&postcount=179
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showpost.php?p=357952&postcount=179
carol said:
Sorry, but no, that will not work because the time limit would STILL have to be tied to a registration. Nothing in that would prevent someone from registering anew if they got banned, since that would give them a new registration name. Many ISPs use rotating IP addresses for their clients these days, and it is actually rare to find someone with a static IP that can be effectively blocked. Even then, someone can simply use a friend's computer or even go to any number of public access points to the net, and bypass an IP block. Heck, even static IP addresses can change over time if you wait long enough. Or you can buy a software package that will spoof your IP address each time you use your computer. There are even sites online that you can use to scramble your IP address by going through their servers. So tying that routine to the IP address would prove to be fruitless as well.
Sorry, I did read that earlier, but just assumed you were not a programmer and thought other programmers would jump in to give the answer I just did.
carol said:
That could be a cure worse than the disease. The first mod I had in the chat room got fired because he was using it to promote his own business and banning competitors there when they came in. Then the next one was the guy that some people here had a run in with and I had to let him go as well. Connie was the only one who didn't let the job go to her head. And imagine for a moment if any of those members here that are in that chat log snippet at the beginning of this thread had had moderator powers in the chat. Do you think that would have made things better? Having anyone arbitrarily deemed a troll just because they wanted to talk about something the "mod" didn't want discussed and then kicked out or banned from the chat room because of it would have been a GOOD thing? A bad moderator can often be much worse than NO moderator. So I do not take assigning such a job lightly at all.
Honestly Carol, I have tried to think of good solutions, and tried to do my best. Then people slap me in the face and say it wasn't enough. That I should have done more. Well, that's fine, but WHAT more? When I try to do something I think is warranted under the circumstances (ie: tell members here that THEIR actions in the chat are not appropriate nor welcome), then they get pissed at me because I didn't automatically side with them.
And yes, I do recall your previous comment:
carol said:
Well that implies that you believe that the ONLY possible scenario is that the "trolls" finally wore down the innocent bystanders and THIS particular outburst was the first and only time it happened. Sorry, but I don't believe that is the case at all. I have gotten quite a few such logs sent to me, and the general tone has been pretty much the same (but not quite so abusive) in all of them from those "innocent" bystanders. I doubt I still have them, but if I do, I may post them to illustrate what I perceived as an ongoing problem that needed to be addressed. When I see ANYONE telling anyone else to "GTFO", then it is time to make certain that that sort of thing ends. I don't care who wants to sugar coat it or disagrees with my opinion, that just is NOT appropriate here.
El Jefe
Mark 16:18
I don't suppose there is a way to let all contributing members become mods. If so, perhaps a point system could be in play whereas a person in chat cannot be dislodged from the system until they receive a set number of 'points' for unsportsman like conduct from the moderators in the room. Not a great solution but it would me a mod couldn't kick someone just because...it would have to be a consensus of the room.
Then again, this may all be too hard to program or a dumb idea.... :shrugs:
Then again, this may all be too hard to program or a dumb idea.... :shrugs:
MohrSnakes said:
Well I wouldn't call it a dumb idea, but honestly, ALL those mods being in there? Personally I think it would be a bad idea, even though the consensus idea is a better modification of that suggestion. But that does not negate the possibility of only one contributor at a time being logged in and having full moderator rights. No matter WHO it may be simply for the price of $25. Being a contributor does not in any way reduce the volatility of their personality. And there are certainly some members who I just would be afraid to give moderator powers to.
Custom programming in the chat system would be even more difficult and probably more expensive then doing it in the message board software. And again, it could be easily circumvented, which would then have me wasting money on such a modification. Fortunately I do have a programming background, and know enough of the workings of these systems to have a good idea about how things would need to be implemented.
Really, I hate to shoot down ideas, but I am trying to be realistic about the options. If there were an easy solution, then I would have done it that way already.
breedingcolors
Freaky!
Rich Z said:
So there is NO ONE here you think could do the job correctly???
Wow we must be a gang of losers then right? I am sick since about one month, tired, stressed, etc. You know why? Because of all it happens her recently.
When I joined here, In January 2005, I was really happy to find this place. In all the others sites I was going, there was a little place for corns (not really used) and a big place for all the rest. And, unlike a lot of other sites, the ambiance here was friendly, helpful and everyone helped me over my expectations numerous time. And best of all, I found friends here.
Personally I experienced the Troll problems in chat. And I stopped going because of that. I have a lot of difficulties with anger and provocation and it was not a friendly and relax place anymore. So I continued coming on the forum because I considered it a bit like a second home. Where I could discuss with others GREAT peoples of my passion and plenty of other subjects.
And then, really fast, it become a place with anger, bitching, trolling, etc. And a lot of people become frustrated for several reasons. The google ads was one, the troll chat problem was another one. And probably other reasons too.
You know Rich, this is your site, you pay for it, you managed it and you always did what you wanted with it. But I think, several GOOD peoples helped you making this site becoming what it is and pay from their pocket too to support this site. And I think the problem is that several peoples feels that, despite that, you are not listening to their needs. If these people did not contribute for this site like they did, would it be the best site for cornsnake care and genetic in the world? I doubt so. A lot of them contributed with money to support this site so it continue to be what it is. I, myself, paid for a Canadian forum so that the Canadian peoples came here to benefits of this site and of the great ressources people are here.
But this community and this richness come with efforts. I know you do a lot of efforts but I feel a certain disrespect of certain members here from your side. A bit like this: This site is like this, I change all I want, I am the boss, and if you don't like it, leave. :shrugs: Wanting to keep the «control» all for yourself by not having some moderators here does probably help to this feeling. Are there not mod in Fauna? Why not here? And for the chat room, if you really think nobody here can do the job correctly as a moderator, we have a really big problem here.
And for the other thing bothering several members in cluding me, I just don't understand the reasons but with all the contributing members and the personal forums, do you really need to put these google ads on top of that? These ads are of every site I go and it is REALLY annoying.
Maybe this is why people post so much in this thread. Not really because of the problem of the first post but for all that surround that and the real problem beneath this one.
I just can't stand good people be disrespect and a good site be ruin without saying anything. There is so much good info, help and good people here. Are these not worthed finding a solution together? Is it bad not wanted to loose what probably several here consider as their second family? :shrugs:
Nope, there is not a single worthy one among our 9,000+ members. I've got to restrain myself from coming to this thread anymore. Everytime, I get a little more insulted in my behalf and the behalf of many others. I feel that in the beginning, Rich's openness paired with the users participation made this site what it is. Many of us worked hard to baby it and spent many hours making it what it is. After all that work, I get the drift that Rich believes he is the sole reason for the success of this site. Because of a few people being stupid jerks in chat, we all are stupid jerks. And because a few people lost it and behaved badly, those members are inherently bad and no longer have any chance of proving otherwisebreedingcolors said:
After many of us have been loyal and worked hard for 3 years this is how we get summed up in just a matter of weeks:
1. A handful of you acted like complete jerks in chat. So obviously anyone else who comes forward asking other problems in chat also be taken care of are either a) upset that you were told you had to keep your integrity, b) defending the ridiculous actions of others, c) making it up, or d) part of a conspiracy.
2. A handful of people in chat showed they would make terrible mods so obviously NONE of us would make good mods.
3. Two mods failed and one got overburdened. So that's an avenue that's been throughly exhausted.
4. We are all very immature for wanting a place to go where people can't come in and tell us we are retards because we don't keep hots, or boas, or whatever.
I'm not on anyones side, I don't care about the google ads, and I think a few of our members behaved terrible in chat. I even think Rich should be making money on this site. But somehow I (along with dozens of others) am lumped together with them in Rich's mind. And if those members behaved that way, surely the rest of us are bound to also. :shrugs: Somehow, those member's actions formed an opinion about ALL of us.
I kind of feel like the middle child. The "baby" taunted the older sibling, taunted them for the sole purpose of getting them to react in a way that would get them in trouble. Sure enough they break and do something unappropriate. Due to the bad behavior of the two, all three children get scorned. Middle child sits there with eyes blinking, feelings hurt, asking "What did I do?" only to be told surely they must have been part of it somehow or could have done something to stop it.
I guess it doesn't matter. The last two nights the chatroom numbers have been high and I've been happy spending my time doing other things. So it looks like the problem is solved on the chat end. I'm really not looking for a response, I just want the reasons for my actions to be clear so words aren't put in my mouth and people don't assume what I'm thinking.
Last edited:
- Status