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60 years ago today....

are you denying that he was in florida listening to kids read? look it up. if you know your country might come under attack, what do you do? oh yeah, go to florida and listen to little sarah read a story about the little engine that could.
 
He was in Florida listening to kids read WHEN the attacks happened. He finished reading with the kids for their sakes . . . what was he supposed to do, run around the room flapping his arms screaming the sky is falling? How long exactly did he read to those kids from the minute the situation was CONFIRMED AS ATTACKS and then left? I remember that day very clearly, and the first attack was thought to be an accidental collision with the building . . . remember?! . . . it wasn't until the second attack, what 30 minutes later . . . that people started talking attack. Hind sight is 20/20, go back to the day and the minute and the second the s*** was flying . . . I don't fault him one bit for taking a bit of time to collect his thoughts, remain calm, and then deal with the situation after it was confirmed . . .

D80
 
You guys and your inability to use logical reasoning kills me...

larryg said:
I'm more of a Libertarian and prefer to strictly follow the Constitution, more than anything.

I find this statement utterly fascinating considering the rant you just launched regarding Monica-gate. Clinton wasn't investigated and subsequently impeached because he had sex with an intern, it was because HE VIOLATED THE BASIC FABRIC OF OUR NATION'S LAWS AND HIS CONSTITUTIONAL OATH BY UNEQUIVICALLY COMMITING PERJURY.

wikkedkornman said:
maybe those countries you speak of haven't turned on us.........yet. i gave my examples, and that is FACT. look it up.

Please list all these "countries whose militaries that we have trained that have turned on us". Please be specific.

Just to show that I wouldn't ask something of you that I can't do myself, I'll defend my position first:

Nations we have trained and/or equipped that haven't turned their military against us (not comprehensive, just the ones I know off the top of my head):
1) Israel
2) Jordan
3) Egypt
4) Saudi Arabia
5) Germany
6) France
7) UK
8) Czech Republic
9) Macedonia
10) Albania
11) Italy
12) Hungary
13) Bulgaria
14) Romania
15) Poland
16) Uzbekistan
17) Turkey
18) Afghanistan
19) Pakistan
20) India
21) Belarus
22) Norway
23) Sweden
24) Korea
25) Japan
26) Taiwan
27) Singapore
28) Thailand
29) Philippines
30) Mexico
31) Canada
32) Columbia
33) Venezuela
34) Greece
35) Kuwait

I await your response. :)

P.S. Before you say Iraq again, remember that they turned against and attacked the soverign nation of Kuwait, not the US. We acted in response. Technically this invalidates your "fact".

P.S.2. Before you say the mujahideen in Afghanistan, they were not the Afghan military. They were freedom fighters from many nations that rallied to fight the Soviet invasion. FWIW, they never turned on us either. Instead they disbanded after the withdrawl of all soviet forces from the region. Again, the "fact" is fiction.
 
I have come to the realization re-reading some of these posts that people have forgotten the single most important freedom they have . . . world-wide. The ability to think for themselves. Every single president, politician, reporter, and especially Michael Moore prey on the fact that the average person will believe anything they read or hear because they either want to be lied to, or they are too lazy to think for themselves and come to their own conclusions.

That's the truly saddest decay in society today.

I think it was summed up when someone here questioned the quote " . . . to do what's right." If you don't know what's right from what's wrong, WOW!, we've got a problem.

D80
 
It is truly fortunate indeed...

that we live in a country where we are entitled to our opinions and are not oppressed by our government for expressing them should they not agree with the views of said government. Few people in countries around the world today can say the same.

Regarding our current president, I found him the lesser of the two evils during elections. At least we knew where he stood and didn't sway every way the winds of politics blew. God, how I hate politics and politicians. (lawyers too, but that's a different subject) :) In spite of myself, I know there is a necessity for such.

As for today's wars that we fight in Afghanistan and Iraq, those who believe they are fought for oil are truly fools. Today's wars are fought primarily for self-defense. Today's wars are fought against terrorism.

I served my country since I graduated high school in June of 1983. I was in the Marines when my brothers in arms in Beirut were killed by the cowardly terrorists. I am not ashamed to say that I wept along with God-only-knows how many other Marines at the news of the bombing. Were it not for our politicians and a great amount of self-restraint, many thousands of Marines would gladly have gone over there to 'kill everyone and let God sort them out' as many of us were more than willing to do had we been given the 'green light'.

Yes, more than 1800 American fighting men and women have been killed in Iraq to date since the start of the war. Many more will die, that is certain. What is also certain is that they are needed to fight that conflict in Iraq and in Afghanistan, for if they were not dying fighting those wars in those countries, you can be certain that there would be far more people dying over here in AMERICA because the terrorists went unchallenged!

I don't truly believe that we are over in Iraq for so noble a cause as liberating the Iraqi people. That war is meant to keep the terrorists OVER THERE. As long as they feel they can kill American soldiers there, they are much less likely to try to come here to kill American civilians.

Think on that when you consider the sacrifices made for this country by our military. Think about that when you argue that President Bush is a warmonger and does not deserve to be our leader. Do any of you honestly believe for a moment that the war is about OIL???

No doubt there are going to be corporations vying for advantage at every chance they get. That's capitalism. Do those same corporations infiltrate our government and corrupt it? Certainly! But the fact is, terrorist bombings on American soil is bad for everyone and we're far better off fighting the terrorists where the terrorists live, NOT where we live.

I've been rather shocked and ashamed of all the name-calling and finger-pointing in this thread. Well, perhaps not so shocked after all. I had no doubt that the lives of those who were killed on 9/11 would be forgotten and that the petty squabbles would rise again above the unity we all felt for a short while afterward. Business as usuall, right?

Let us not forget who the real enemy is: Complacency. Or perhaps it's Greed. Maybe even the idealism of the self-righteous. Do not blame Princess or any of the others for voicing their opinions. Let us not argue on who is right or who is wrong in our own opinions. Let us rejoice that there are people around the world from all walks of life who are willing to lend a hand or a dollar or a candy bar to those who desperately need it.

Cav, thank you very much for sharing those photographs and experiences with us. I have seen many such acts of kindness by our government and military and civilian aid personnel throughout my years in the military. I'm proud to have served not just my country, but others in need as well.

All hope for humanity is not lost as long as there are those who are willing to help others in need.

Sincerely,

Erik
 
Ditto, 100% what CAV and Knight_errant said . . . much more eloquently than I am able.

Credibility:
n : the quality of being believable or trustworthy
1. The quality, capability, or power to elicit belief: “America's credibility must not be squandered, especially by its leaders” (Henry A. Kissinger).
2. A capacity for belief: a story that strained our credibility.
Taken from: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=credibility

wikkedkornman said:
i'm done now. 08-06-2005, 12:38 PM
No, you weren't . . .

wikkedkornman said:
joe, you are a p***. a little smart-allec, angst ridden p***. you pride yourself on being the grand bubble burster, coming on here constantly being sarcastic with people, and bashing people that don't share your point of view. edited by D80 due to bad words :) 08-07-2005, 08:28 AM
wikkedkornman said:
that's right, you're 100% correct. that's why you don't see me calling people that don't agree with me idiots and such. why? because i have respect for others opinions. while i might not agree, i have enough respect not to bash them. some people could learn a thing or 2 about that! 08-09-2005, 12:58 PM
Actually, I saw you calling people that don't agree with you worse names than 'idiot', so technically, that post WAS a true statement . . .

wikkedkornman said:
hell, it's pretty common knowledge that every other country that we've trained their military has turned on us at some point. we trained the iraqi's in their war with iran, and look at how that turned out. we trained the afghani's and look how that turned out. think about it. 08-09-2005, 12:58 PM
wikkedkornman said:
maybe those countries you speak of haven't turned on us.........yet. i gave my examples, and that is FACT. look it up. 08-09-2005, 03:57 PM
How is YOUR typing it out in a post the creation of FACT?

CAV and Knight_errant have incorporated more FACT and credibility into this argument with their first hand experiences than anything you could repeat from your Michael Moore 'Blues-Clues' Handy-Dandy Notebook.

D80
 
Drizzt80 said:
Actually, I saw you calling people that don't agree with you worse names than 'idiot', so technically, that post WAS a true statement . . .
D80


if you look, you'll see that i didn't call joe a prick-which isn't a bad word by the way- until AFTER he called me an idiot. joe is the only one that i called a name, besides calling bush an idiot. learn how to read.
 
But your answer is nothing more than a meaningless and trivial statement which is without purpose. Again I ask, what's your point?
 
After I get back and eat dinner I will most definitely be responding to this most ridiculous new comments.
 
Knight_errant, thanks: your post was well-thought-out, well-said, and a pleasure to read. :)

Knight_errant said:
Do not blame Princess or any of the others for voicing their opinions.
I do not blame her for voicing her opinion. I'm thankful that she has finally outed herself with her bigoted stereotyping, and that she has finally explained why she looks down her nose at Americans.

And I'm also thankful to learn that I'm nowhere near as fat, uneducated, and inbred as all those who voted for Bush. :rolleyes:

In general (not directed at anyone in particular) I do have to wonder how well such comments would have been received had they been comparable stereotypes concerning any particular racial group. Seems it's ok to hate someone based on ignorant stereotypes and generalizations, but only as long as they're not about race/creed/color/sexual preference/handicap.
 
larryg said:
Clinton did a good job of defending this country. Maybe if some small-minded, prudish Republicans had been concentrating on National Security instead of spending uncountable manhours pursuing a phantom (Whitewater, Monica, etc.), 9-11 might not have happened.

China loves what Clinton did for the defense of our country! :bang:

Oh yeah and see Clinton/Sudan/Osama Bin Laden He sure did a great job of defending this country. :bang:

Oh yeah and see... USS COLE :bang:
 
wikkedkornman said:
if you look, you'll see that i didn't call joe a prick-which isn't a bad word by the way- until AFTER he called me an idiot. joe is the only one that i called a name, besides calling bush an idiot. learn how to read.

I can read, and you clearly stated:
"that's why you don't see me calling people that don't agree with me idiots and such."
You clearly did call Joe names regardless of the fact that it was afterwards or before hand. Or are you saying that it's okay to retaliate . . .?

"Never argue with an idiot, they will only bring you down to their level, then
beat you on experience!" :crazy02:

I have lost . . .
D80
 
Drizzt80 said:
I have come to the realization re-reading some of these posts that people have forgotten the single most important freedom they have . . . world-wide. The ability to think for themselves. Every single president, politician, reporter, and especially Michael Moore prey on the fact that the average person will believe anything they read or hear because they either want to be lied to, or they are too lazy to think for themselves and come to their own conclusions.
Agreed. And let's not forget about Rush Limbaugh in that sample above.

regards,
jazz
 
Jynx said:
Wow. How could I have missed this thread?

I only have one thing to add, and its just an observation, not an argument. I don't belittle people based on their political beliefs. I happen to be a democrat, but I also didn't vote for the last 2 terms, so I can't bitch. Here is my observation:

Democrat goes into office, and rebuilds the economy. Republican goes into office, and we go to war. Notice a pattern?

Now some wars are worth fighting over, and some aren't. Some things we should go to war over, but we don't.

Jynx said:
Dad used to tell me "There are 2 things you never discuss... religion and politics, because no one will ever agree with you, and you'll piss off the entire world trying to make them agree with you."

I have a feeling this thread will last a very very long time....


I can't agree with Catherine more.. Austraila has a lot of herps, don't they? lol.. we're also looking closely at Canada...

Laine
 
jazzgeek said:
Agreed. And let's not forget about Rush Limbaugh in that sample above.
Also include:
ABC
NBC
CBS
Fox News
CNN
MSNBC
Al Jazeera
AP
NPR
US News & World Report
Time
Newsweek
USA Today
New York Times
Washington Post
Chicago Tribune
etc etc etc. ;)
 
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