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Biology. the major subdivision of a genus or subgenus, regarded as the basic category of biological classification, composed of related individuals that resemble one another, are able to breed among themselves, but are not able to breed with members of another species.

This doesn’t clear up Rich’s question but in entomology the definition of species doesn’t say able to breed among themselves, it says that they are able to produce viable offspring. By that definition, breeding a horse to a donkey gives an unfertile mule; horses and donkeys are separate species.

In the world of taxonomy there has always been a battle between the lumpers and the splitters. One group wants to put all rat snakes under one species name and the other group wants to divide each little nuance into a separate species. This may be the cause of some of the confusion of hybridization between species. There are many instances where the geographical boundaries of two species meet and you find an intergrade hybrid representing both. Maybe we were a little overzealous when we gave them separate specific status. Maybe the are both subspecies of the same species.
 
I don't think I've ever seen a paper trying to lump all Elaphe and Bogertophis (ratsnakes) into one species - or even one trying to lump cornsnakes with obsoleta. I've seen (as it used to be) bairdii combined with it, but not guttata. Saying all ratsnakes should be one species would be like saying all north American colubrids should be listed as coluber (again)....lol. You may have just be exagerating to make a point, and I look like an idjut for taking it literally, though....lol.

On the "species are interbreeding that can't interbreed with other species" definitin,,,well, I've said it before, but I can say it again. That is a grade school definition that does not, nor ever has, worked. The idea is that 2 species in the wild don't interbreed to produce viable young and wouldn't if they came into contact "naturally." What happens in the l;ab, so to speak, doesn't matter. Plus, survival and "fitness" of the young - even if fertile - is the key. There are pre-breeding and post-breeding isolation mechanisms, but that simple definition ignores most of the post-breeding ones...and only hints at the "naturally" component. This is why there are so many different species concepts - and fights over the "right" one. Each one has its problems and its benefits. Mother nature isa square hole sometimes and a round one others - no simple definition will EVER work.

"Species" is like "pornography" when it comes to a definition. It is hard to define, but I bet you'll know it when you see it....and what the definition can change based on the situation.
 
Surely all you have to do to test your hybrid theory is buy examples of the suspected no-corn progenitor, start breeding trials and wait for results?

This is exactly what I would like to see done...Or at least see examples of such hybrids already produced (if they have been). I'd do it if I had the non-corns...Might be a neat "science project" to see if they're even compatible in the first place! Anyone got a spare Striped Zamenis Situlus and Striped California King? :D

Knowing that the originator of the Tessera is known for creating hybrids and not advertising them appropriately doesn't make me feel very confident though. :duck:
 
The most beautiful snake that I ever laid eyes on was an 8 way rat snake cross.
The seller would not say exactly what they were only that they were an 8 way cross.

I guess you aren't going to answer/address any of my questions/comments.


See you in a couple months. :wavey:
 
That is just the nature of the beast when making a claim of producing something new. I've had to run that gauntlet several times. The questions and doubt can vary anywhere from truly thoughtful and introspective, to being obviously outlandlishly petty and ridiculous. But that's just the way real life is.

And yes, people do have a right to question someone else's hypotheses and data. Very few people are willing to accept claims at face value, no matter who the source. Personally I believe peer review of anything of this nature is immensely important and should not be blown off simply because it may hurt someone's feelings to not be taken at face value. It's rarely a personal issue, but instead people are trying to be certain that the hypothesis and assumptions being presented are indeed valid.

Data indicating the likely source of the bloodline is important. It can help identify the relationships with other genetic types as well as provide a source tree showing not only where the line came from, but also likely avenues of transmission to determine where this new unique gene might likely surface. Such answers will help immensely when someone else produces the same genetic type and instead of claiming it is something new and unrelated, can logically deduce that because of the likely source, comparing notes from existing examinations of similar looking animals can save a LOT of time and trouble trying to figure out exactly what it is they now have on their hands.
Just because this may be a hobby and merely a fun pastime to you doesn't mean it has to be for everyone else as well. Some people will need to make decisions based on this sort of data that could have them wasting lots of time, money, effort, and resources on projects if the assumptions made are not what they appeared to be at first blush. They could be making plans that could cost them thousands of dollars over several years. So please don't blame them if this is much more serious to them then it may be to you.

Taken from a thread on the "buf" gene.
 
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