Controversial Topic: Handling Health Problems

[starsevol]

I am not a "run to the vet" person, but I will go if I feel that the animal needs it. And that goes for any of my animals, even the rats. In fact, the rats have needed vet care far more than any snake I've ever had.
I have had a few snakes die with no sign of illness. Mostly rosy boas, but I also lost a 9 year old reverse okeetee about 3 years ago. He was a ferocious feeder and I fed him on a Saturday night. He ATTACKED his thawed mouse like he always did....and was dead on Monday. And I have had 2 eggbound females,both were taken to the vet. One was saved and one wasn't. The one that was saved sorted it out herself. The vet thought since the eggs were far up her body and spaced out that the snake could take care of it herself, and the vet was right!
I am a breeder, but my animals mean the world to me. And I have a great vet. To me, every creature that owns me, rats included, have value that far exceeds the monetary.

 

[bitsy]

I have no hesitation in taking any of my bunch to the vet, but then I'm lucky enough to have a knowledgable reptile vet a couple of miles away, who will pretty much drop everything to help (he once got out of bed at gone midnight to see a snake that was having seizures).

There are obvious practical limitations to seeing a vet, not least the location of your nearest vet and the level of reptile knowledge they have/admit to (sometimes not necessarily the same thing).

I sometimes wonder if reptiles are considered differently because they are unable to express distress or pain in a vocal way? If you had a dog or a cat experiencing a difficult birth, they would howl or cry and I can't see any owner being able to ignore that. But an eggbound snake? It just sits there until 1) the problem clears of its own accord, 2) it gets help or 3) it dies/is killed by the owner.

I guess that's an emotive way of putting it, for which I apologise. But this is bound to be an emotive topic - what seems normal and reasonable to one person might seem cruel to someone else. It's a matter of perception.

 

[Tula_Montage]

And for the record--Elle, I don't think you should address people so vociferously. This is a topic that is bound to spark emotional responses and different opinions. If you cannot control your emotions when responding to people with different opinions, than perhaps this is one topic you should avoid reading. I say that because I am quite positive I know what your reaction is going to be to my post. So before you get all emotional and tell me how evil I am, let me set the record straight...I don't care what you or anyone else thinks. This is a decision that I must make FOR myself and BY myself. Your opinion of my decision won't matter, so please don't waste your time or energy writing an emotional response...I still appreciate and respect you...we just have different opinions on this particular matter.

You're absolutely right Chris, I was a little arrogant and harsh, however it was 4.45am when I wrote that reply and as you said, this topic is bound to spark emotions. I was in floods of tears writing the reply about Windsor (yes I still feel that strongly about him) and that sadness obviously translated to anger. I apologize for that...

I really don't appreciate being told to curve my emotional response though... I don't think anyone has the right to tell someone not to me emotional or passionate about something. My reaction to your post was actually complete agreement with the scenarios you presented. I don't know why you were sure I would disagree? I think Toyah illustrated the point perfectly, in the UK we are never more than 2 minutes to 2 hours from a vet. There is no excuse for not taking sick animals to the vet - we have an absolute abundance of public transport etc. However I 100% sympathize with the fact that some peoples circumstances simply cannot allow for them to visit the vet (be it monetary or whatever). During last November when I had one sick snake, I dragged another 3 off to the vet for expensive tests to be done. All 3 snakes were fine but I needed to make sure... I spent $200 just to make sure they were OK. Over the top yes, unecessary yes... but I had to do it at the time.

Putting your daughter above your animals is absolutely paramount, I don't think anyone would expect anything else from you.

I don't think I made such an emotive response as you did Chris. The "screw you if you don't like it" attitude seems to me like it leaves no room for empathy and that you may be unwilling to see things from my point of view. I sincerely hope you can as I feel I made valid points. I know we all have different morals and values in life, and at the moment I have no children so my animals have became my one focus - I would do anything for them. I am sure if I have a daughter or son too I may feel entirely different. I know why you reacted to my post, I didn't mean to sound harsh and I can see " my way or the high way" simply isn't the correct stance to take when there is an abundance of keepers who all have entirley different opinions which are neither right or wrong... it's when perspective and values come into play that things start to heat up.

 

[tyflier]

Elle, I completely understand why you feel the way you do, and I fully respect why you fel the way you do. Trust me when I say that if a qualified vet was only a few miles away, my snakes would go if needed. I don't mean to be cruel, and I certainly care for all of my animals.

I also think it is important to note that sometimes the actual veterinarian's license isn't as important as the physical knowledge and experience with snakes and reptiles. The people that I go to for help and advice are licensed reptile rehabilitator's. They know more than any local vet when it comes to snakes, and I firmly believe that I am reciveing the same level of care from them(for free) that I would from a vet. Should I need testing done, I can go to the vet and tell him what tests are needed without even bringing in my animals...I only need to bring the necessary samples that we have already collected, labled with my name and the species. I haven't had to USE this service as of yet, but I have inquired of it..."just in case".

And you're right...I did get "pre-emotional". I have seen people(not you) get attacked for stating opinions similar to mine, and I wanted to stop it before it started. So I apologize, as well.

 

[onelifetolive45]

You're absolutely right Chris, I was a little arrogant and harsh, however it was 4.45am when I wrote that reply and as you said, this topic is bound to spark emotions. I was in floods of tears writing the reply about Windsor (yes I still feel that strongly about him) and that sadness obviously translated to anger. I apologize for that...

It's no big deal. I would be "edgy" too if I was replying at 4:45 in the morning, my post was at 12:40 or something. You had better watch out if I ever reply to something at 4:45 though :angry01: ha.

 

[tyflier]

Elle Wrote:

...Putting your daughter above your animals is absolutely paramount, I don't think anyone would expect anything else from you....

I have seen people(not you) use the argument before. "What if it was your kid, would you still refuse to spend the money or make the drive?" It's a fairly ludicrous argument, IMO, but it doesn't stop some people from using it, so I figured I would address it beforehand...just to save time.

 

[onelifetolive45]

I find that humorous too, how can anyone put the life of an animal above the life of a person. I hope I don't start a separate argument now, just thought I throw my two cents in.

 

[ghosthousecorns]

Hey the first words in thread title says it all... controversial topic. It was a kind of scary one to reply to.
:-offtopic My cat IS my child! I know a lot of people that don't have kids feel the same way about their cat or dog.

 

[tyflier]

Hey the first words in thread title says it all... controversial topic. It was a kind of scary one to reply to.
:-offtopic My cat IS my child! I know a lot of people that don't have kids feel the same way about their cat or dog.

Well there is certainly nothing WRONG with that. I respect the fact that you care as much about your cat as I do about my daughter. That's great. However, should you ever have children, I believe that you will find yourself making a very unconscious decision about which is more important in an emergency.

I've noticed that most of the time, people making arguments like that are either children themselves, or without children. Not a dig, to be sure. Just a different perception...

 

[clipclopclip]

Well, I have actually only ever had to euthanize one animal, and that was a fish. It was old and not eating and was painful to look at. I do believe in euthanizing an animal humanely if the animal is suffering needlessly (btw, when is suffering ever needed!?).

Anyways, I am super lucky in that a live within WALKING distance of the CSU student teaching vet hospital, and that that hospital, which has some of the most cutting-edge research in the nation, has I think TWO qualified herp vets that are excellent.

They are expensive, yes, but I would rather spend the money than watch an animal under my roof suffer. I cannot stand it. I will shrivel mentally if left with no other option than to let an animal suffer.....

That said, if I have an animal in my care that I think cannot be helped by a vet without hundreds of dollars of vet care and extreme fear and pain for the animal, I will euthanize it.

 

[ghosthousecorns]

Well there is certainly nothing WRONG with that. I respect the fact that you care as much about your cat as I do about my daughter. That's great. However, should you ever have children, I believe that you will find yourself making a very unconscious decision about which is more important in an emergency.

I've noticed that most of the time, people making arguments like that are either children themselves, or without children. Not a dig, to be sure. Just a different perception...

I agree, absolutely! As a parent you have experienced a whole world of which I know nothing. TBH, I think I am kind of getting a bit past the child bearing age... And I also have somewhat controversial views about bringing more children into this world. I'd want to adopt if I had a child.
My nephew is an orphan and is my beneficiary on my insurance and I think the feeling I have for him is about as maternal as possible without actually being his mom.
I just can speak from what I know, and that is how I feel. I remember watching a T.V. show on animal planet about rescuers finally being let in to go try and save the pets left behind in Katrina and I was in tears and had to turn it off. And when my house flooded on New Years Day 2006 people had the option to go stay at the armory shelter but I stayed behind because I knew my cat wouldn't be allowed over there.
I'm sure my priorities would change if I actually had a child just as you describe though

 

[susang]

Although I have children they are all grown and moved away. We have three cats and one dog, all have been spayed and neutered, the usual stuff. I am down to one rat, would I take her to the vet, I don't know. For the poster who has a vet that will drop everything, mine will to but it's an extra $75.00. I don't want this to sound financial, but maybe practical.
A little vet story: I was waiting to pick up our small dog who had just had major surg. because something chewed her up (we lived out in the woods). When they brought her out everyone even the vet techs and receptionist started laughing. She had purple horse wrap from mid belly around both front legs and neck, so imagine a purple body cast on a human from mid belly to neck. She was a sight. Suddenly the door flies open and this woman comes running in with a chicken, she had a egg stuck in the vent. The woman is crying and yelling for help. The recepionist managed to hold up one finger and run to the back, people were rolling on the floor. This isn't a big farming community but certainly have lots of farms. Well the woman just kept yelling her chicken was dieing. I tried talking to her, she just couldn't calm down. After everyone calmed down a tech came out with KY jelly rubbed it around the vent of the chicken, a little push and out flew the egg. The lady then wanted the chicken spayed. This is not a joke or story it really happened. I tell the story because we all have limits as to what we can do in regards to an animal. I would have killed the chicken and had a great dinner, this was her pet.

 

[Tula_Montage]

I also think it is important to note that sometimes the actual veterinarian's license isn't as important as the physical knowledge and experience with snakes and reptiles. The people that I go to for help and advice are licensed reptile rehabilitator's. They know more than any local vet when it comes to snakes, and I firmly believe that I am reciveing the same level of care from them(for free) that I would from a vet. Should I need testing done, I can go to the vet and tell him what tests are needed without even bringing in my animals...I only need to bring the necessary samples that we have already collected, labled with my name and the species. I haven't had to USE this service as of yet, but I have inquired of it..."just in case".

And you're right...I did get "pre-emotional". I have seen people(not you) get attacked for stating opinions similar to mine, and I wanted to stop it before it started. So I apologize, as well.

Absolutely... When I took my anery stripe into the vet at the same time Windsor was ill, the emergency (non herp vet who apparently had an interest in herps) asked if he was a ribbon snake. LOL. I though oh naw, this was a terrible idea but I could not wait the extra two days to see a proper herp vet, I was beside myself. He was able to do the fecal exams etc that I wanted and ensured his airways etc were clean, the inside of his mouth was healthy and that he showed no symptoms of an advanced RI (I was being a total snake hypochondriac at the time). I agree though, a bad vet is as good as no vet. When I dealt with the herp vet who treated Windsor he admitted that there was a few things he was unsure about but he got the books out and made phonecalls to colleagues and more knowledgable people that he thought could give HIM advice. Thats what I want to see in a vet, someone who can admit they dont know everything but was perfectly willing to find out for me.

 

[eddie1976]

For me it has always been easy to take care of the health problems of all of my reptiles. When I was living in NY I was about 30 minutes from the Cornell Vet School, and any treatments I needed were done for free, as there was always a class on exotic care going on and the vet was happy to have a live specimen to show the class.
Now it is even better as I am married to a veterinarian that does have quite a knowledge of reptile ailments. As a matter of fact I recently had to have an abcess on my boa drained and she is on IM antibiotics.

I have also had her stitch me up on a few occasions, and I figure if I trust her with me I can trust he with the snakes.

 

[susang]

For me it has always been easy to take care of the health problems of all of my reptiles. When I was living in NY I was about 30 minutes from the Cornell Vet School, and any treatments I needed were done for free, as there was always a class on exotic care going on and the vet was happy to have a live specimen to show the class.
Now it is even better as I am married to a veterinarian that does have quite a knowledge of reptile ailments. As a matter of fact I recently had to have an abcess on my boa drained and she is on IM antibiotics.

I have also had her stitch me up on a few occasions, and I figure if I trust her with me I can trust he with the snakes.

That would be cool married to a vet. I stitched up hubby a couple times. Even in nursing school it's see one, do one, teach one.
In all honesty having worked in an ER, I feel I would have a hard time working in a vet office. I have so much respect for vets, their patients can't say what's wrong, what hurts or how they feel. It also seems most vet visits are so traumatic.

 

[Drizzt80]

Hmm, how to respond?? For me it would have to be a case by case basis. I'm a fairly practical, simple, no-nonsense, no-frills kinda guy.

In all reality I'm a do-it-yourselfer. In all reality, I've lost one animal in 20 years of caring for reptiles. I'm not bragging, I'm not thumping my chest, I'm not better than anyone else. The one snake I did lose was completely my fault as well. (long story short) I was medicating with Baytril (which dehydrates) for an RI. Water dish got tipped over and wasn't replaced for several days (it was summer, snake was in my classroom). Snake died, completely my fault. I felt bad, but wasn't devastated or in tears either.

I'm not smarter than a vet, but $48 to look at a stool sample (which takes 10 minutes & the vet tech does it anyways) is utterly ridiculous. Period. :shrugs: I'll do my best to self medicate my animals and make case by case decisions from there.

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure anyways!!

D80

 

[Drizzt80]

I feel I would have a hard time working in a vet office. I have so much respect for vets, their patients can't say what's wrong, what hurts or how they feel. It also seems most vet visits are so traumatic.

Once upon a time I was looking into vet school (life intervened) . . . from my understanding people would be amazed at how many doctors are flunked out vet students!! :eek1:

D80

 

[eddie1976]

That would be cool married to a vet. I stitched up hubby a couple times. Even in nursing school it's see one, do one, teach one.
In all honesty having worked in an ER, I feel I would have a hard time working in a vet office. I have so much respect for vets, their patients can't say what's wrong, what hurts or how they feel. It also seems most vet visits are so traumatic.

It is definitely cool being married to a vet. It can definitely get stressful for her at times but she has that "knack" that most good vets seem to have. She can calm down both animals and people in the bad situations. That is something I would never be able to do

 

[eddie1976]

Once upon a time I was looking into vet school (life intervened) . . . from my understanding people would be amazed at how many doctors are flunked out vet students!! :eek1:

D80

What amazed me about the whole application process was how few people Vet schools actually accept. My wifes class at Cornell comprised of 90 people out of thousands of applicants.

 

[tyflier]

What amazed me about the whole application process was how few people Vet schools actually accept. My wifes class at Cornell comprised of 90 people out of thousands of applicants.

Well...really it makes sense. A vet is required to know intimately the inner workings of a majority of several different species of animals. A doctor is required to only know one. It takes an incredibly special individual to become a vetrinarian and they have my utmost respect.

When I say that local vets don't know anything about reptiles...it's not meant as a dig. Reptiles and exotics are simply not a commonly kept pet around here. Horses, mules, donkeys, dogs, cats, rabbits, rodents, fish, cows, chickens, and just about any mammal large or small...I would trust my local vets 110%. They are great doctors. But there is no demand for exotic bird and reptile vets in my area. We, the keepers, know this, and so do the vets. So the keepers learn as much as possible with close assistance from the vets(free of charge when possible), and we help each other as much as we possibly can. If someone "in the circle" can't fix the problem, one of us knows someone "outside the circle" that probably can.

This works to everyone's advantage, really, because the vets have reliable people they can send patients too when necessary, and saves the keepers spending extra money. It also helps that the vets around here trust most of us enough to go ahead and prescribe us supplies like hypodermic needles and broad spectrum antibiotics without too much hassle. They know we will eventually need it, and that we are pretty good at diagnosing when and how to administer it, so they don't have many qualms about letting us have access to it...