Corns living together?? Yes or no?

[holly tayls]

My co habitation was for no otehr reason than the snakes sought each other out whenever possible (which was how it appeared and since there is no proclaimed "snake whisperer here Ill never be able to PROVE it"). When I was holding one and my son the other they would buth try to get to the other and not stop. Hold them together and they "APPEARED" content (as seen in the picture for my avatar)
2 vivs sitting right beside each other and one would be constantly in the cool end and the other in the warm end sitting right next to each other.
It had NOTHING to do (as some here seem to assume) with saving some money or space. I have the exact same setup for BOTH only smaller vivs than I have now for then together. I am a furm believer and practicer of your responsibility as a pet owner to provide the best possible care for your pet. Its not a hobby its a responsibility.
That being said my girls will continue together until they show me they want otherwise.

*** By the way I have NEVER mentioned this point that went along way to my decision on cohabitating them. (I initially did NOT want to as that meant that I had to spend a couple of hundred dollars extra to get a NEW and LARGER and IMPROVED VIV)

*** My Anery was not eating. Thats the reason. Sounds strange but after we got her she would not eat. She was not a hatchling but a holdover or one that did not sell from the past breeding season. We left her alone for a week, sisnt handle, didnt feed etc. All the directions direct from kathys care pages. she still would not eat. I tried braining, slicing, chicken broth, pinkies, fuzzies. large, small waiting a 4 days between attempts and she was not interrested. 3 weeks past and we were heading out for vacation for a week and were moving them to another room. I placed them in the same viv for the day as I was cleaning the other and did not have time to finish it. Well long story a bit shorter and they had to remain all the next day until later in the evening as I had an emergency and we were leaving at 0400 next morning. The heating pad died as I was putting the 2nd viv back together and had no choice at that time. I fed our Amel and tried again (after about 30 hours of the cohabitation) and the anery ate. Have had no trouble with her eating since and we decided to let them stay together.
take it for what its worth. The Acception rather than the rule.
I appreciate and respect the opinions and siggestions of all the "experts here"

 

[Duff]

Every case of cannibalism I've heard of has been a direct result or poor or improper feeding practices with younger corns. The case from this summer, the poster never responded when asked about the circumstances involved, but from the description of the incident, it seemed to be a case of group feeding. Which is definitely asking for trouble.

As for the solitary argument, there's always the possibility that they are solitary in the wild because they don't want to have to compete for food supplies. They do brumate/hibernate in groups. When I've had to cohab hatchlings, they never showed any aggression toward each other and would always be in the same hide, even though they were given multiple hides in the same temperature zones. Basically, no one can say that they like having company, but no one can say they don't either, as no one has yet to figure out how to actually communicate with them (beyond trying to interpret actions and behaviors, which is guessing at best).

I'm not meaning to come across as pro cohab, because I'm really neutral on the whole matter, and don't do it because that's my preference. Just gets to me when I see things being thrown around from either side that are a bit out of whack or exaggerated. I am against cohabbing breeding pairs beyond actual mating time, though, as that probably is a serious long-term health risk for the female.

 

[starsevol]

Why look for "new" reasons?
Yes, sometimes snakes don't eat when kept singly.
Yes, sometimes snakes get sick when kept singly.
No, it's not a perfect world.

But, the world of an animal that we are responsible for should be as perfect as possible.
Risks should be as few as possible.
These animals are a victim of whatever world we decide to put them in.
It's our duty to do what's right.

Sorry messiah, you do what you want (you will anyway), but your views will not go unchallenged here.

And if the worst should happen, it was no one's fault but your own.

 

[suecornish]

I just want to say this: When people state that corn snakes don't even like to be touched or handled I would have to disagree to a point. Yes, my baby Gaia tolerates being handled but she is under 1 year old and not used to being handled; just like a baby that is not toilet trained yet. Smokey is 8 years old and when either me or my husband handled him he goes right inside our shirts, cuddles next to our bodies and goes to sleep. He will stay still as long as we stay still. I even had him fall asleep under my chin and neck while I napped. He wasn't being forced to do that, he did it on his own because he could have crawled away at any time.

Sometimes we take both Smokey and Queenie out at the same time and let them roam the couch together. There have been times when they crossed bodies with each other, laid on top of each other trying to get into blanket or towel on the couch and one time stared at each other for over five minutes. Queenie is a Banded King Snake. Never did she ever go into striking mode to try to eat Smokey.

A creature behaviour is changed once it's removed from it's natural element and then anything goes. You have to carefully observe your snakes and make the appropriate corrections/decision. CB and CR corns can not be judge by their cousins in the wild.

 

[snakewispera snr]

When the debate starts to go down the "communicate with them" road my eyes start to glaze over... sorry
If you can watch your snakes 24/7 I agree you can keep them together (and I will) but as some of us have expensive snakes and not the time to watch them continually, we'll keep them apart. It makes financially sense if nothing else.
MIKE

 

[HaisseM]

Sorry messiah, you do what you want (you will anyway), but your views will not go unchallenged here.

And if the worst should happen, it was no one's fault but your own.

I don't mind my views being challenged, matter of fact, its giving me extra stuff to be aware of so i can be a better pet owner, I just hate reading how people say NO so firmly based on reasoning that is true just as much as it is false.

The worst won't happen because I take proper care of my pet as i'm sure you do also.

P.s its not my views being challenged its the ones who are saying NO that are being challenged

 

[zwyatt]

I don't mind my views being challenged, matter of fact, its giving me extra stuff to be aware of so i can be a better pet owner, I just hate reading how people say NO so firmly based on reasoning that is true just as much as it is false.

The worst won't happen because I take proper care of my pet as i'm sure you do also.

P.s its not my views being challenged its the ones who are saying NO that are being challenged

Tell me how the things I've said are as false as they are true. Everything I have stated are the things that CAN go wrong. There were no absolutes. I didn't state that cohabitation WILL result in x, y or z, but that cohabitation increases the risk of x, y, and z. And to argue that these things can't happen is an excercise in futility.

 

[HaisseM]

Tell me how the things I've said are as false as they are true. Everything I have stated are the things that CAN go wrong. There were no absolutes. I didn't state that cohabitation WILL result in x, y or z, but that cohabitation increases the risk of x, y, and z. And to argue that these things can't happen is an excercise in futility.

I'm not saying you're the only one saying it... If you read many of the other posters on this subject matter, you would get the impression that if you cohab your snake WILL get sick, WILL get stressed, and WILL eat one or the other.

Like a previous poster said

Originally Posted by Nanci
"There's never a problem with cohabitation till there's a problem with cohabitation."...Janine

meaning there WILL be a problem with cohabitation instead of there is a chance you could have a problem

 

[HaisseM]

Tell me how the things I've said are as false as they are true. Everything I have stated are the things that CAN go wrong. There were no absolutes. I didn't state that cohabitation WILL result in x, y or z, but that cohabitation increases the risk of x, y, and z. And to argue that these things can't happen is an excercise in futility.

wait I just realized my post wasn't even directed at you..... but i'll review your post and get back to you on that

 

[HaisseM]

Sigh...I suppose I am entirely wrong. Cannibalism, stress, and health issues DO NOT occur as a result of cohabitation.

Here one where you are saying they occur because of cohabitation (yes I saw past you sarcasm to realize you were saying it Does, but truth be told it happens even when you don't cohabatate)

 

[Roy Munson]

Like a previous poster said

Originally Posted by Nanci
"There's never a problem with cohabitation till there's a problem with cohabitation."...Janine

meaning there WILL be a problem with cohabitation instead of there is a chance you could have a problem

You can't just assign your own meaning to that quote. Its meaning is pretty straightforward. Substitute "cohabitation" in that quote with another risky behavior, and you'll see what I mean. For example: "There's never a problem with driving under the influence of alcohol until a problem arises." I have a friend who has been driving while plastered-drunk for twenty years now. He's never been caught, and he's never hurt himself or anyone else. Maybe he'll get away with it forever without negative consequences. Then again, maybe he'll wipe out an entire family tomorrow, and end up a quadriplegic himself... :shrugs:

 

[HaisseM]

You can't just assign your own meaning to that quote. Its meaning is pretty straightforward. Substitute "cohabitation" in that quote with another risky behavior, and you'll see what I mean. For example: "There's never a problem with driving under the influence of alcohol until a problem arises." I have a friend who has been driving while plastered-drunk for twenty years now. He's never been caught, and he's never hurt himself or anyone else. Maybe he'll get away with it forever without negative consequences. Then again, maybe he'll wipe out an entire family tomorrow, and end up a quadriplegic himself... :shrugs:

I see your point, but an extreme like DUI and cohabitating don't work as much as much as there is no problem riding a motorcycle till you have a problem riding a motorcycle..... Doesn't it leave you with the feeling you're GOING to have a problem sooner or later, more likely sooner?

 

[Roy Munson]

Here one where you are saying they occur because of cohabitation (yes I saw past you sarcasm to realize you were saying it Does, but truth be told it happens even when you don't cohabatate)

Cannibalism is very rare in snakes that are kept separately. This may seem like a silly statement, but in fact, there ARE documented cases of autophagy in corns, i.e., corns eating themselves! If a corn snake's feeding response is so strong that it can kill itself in an attempt to eat itself, I'm certainly not trusting it with other snakes.

If you have two low-end pet corns, and you decide to house them together, what can I tell you? All I have to say is that only a real fool keeps two $1,000 corns together.

 

[zwyatt]

wait I just realized my post wasn't even directed at you..... but i'll review your post and get back to you on that

It may not have been directed towards me, but it might as well have been. I believe it was directed towards others who were making statements about the dangers of cohabitation and not claiming anything about absolute certainties.
I think that you are reading too much into our warnings. It's not that anyone is claiming that cohabitation will, without a doubt, end in catastrophe. It's that cohabitation has been known to end badly (poor health, death, etc) so why even subject our snakes to that increased risk. That's our point.

 

[susang]

Title of thread: "Corns living together yes or no?"

I have two corns, as many of you know and they are both babies, living seperatly.

I really want to put them together because I want them to be able to live together and have a buddy to curl up with.

Alot of people I know have two cornsnakes living together with no problem but I figure you guys all know alot more about corn snakes and can help me with this...

I plan on breeding them when they reach adulthood so I'll definatly be putting them together for that.

Please give me your opinion :]

Well Messiah, you must be a computer psychoanalist, telling us how we should speak. The original question required a "yes or no" answer. She further went on and ask for opinion, Wikipedia defines opinion as:An opinion is a person's ideas and thoughts towards something. It is an assessment, judgment or evaluation of something. An opinion is not a fact, because opinions are either not falsifiable, or the opinion has not been proven or verified. If it later becomes proven or verified, it is no longer an opinion, but a fact.

I do believe that is exactly what we did give our statement "yes or no" and then gave our opinions about that answer. So maybe you should lead us all in the direction you want us to go, please teach us how to speak on this forum as I hang on every word.

 

[attackturtle]

By no means am I being funny, but if someone wants to ask the same question on different forums what does it matter?? Different people use different forums and by asking questions on more than one they are increasing their area of research. Personally I have never heard of RR.com, so I obviously wouldnt respond to a question on it, but here I may. I dont think its fair that some people on here are happy to post their opinion on multiple sites, but then slate people for asking the same questions on them?

All credit to Lena for using more than 1 site to broaden her response. I think its a good thing and well done. Shame alot of other people dont spend as much time doing research on their pets.

I agree this could be the case but I think we need to keep in mind that the individual could be what I term "opinion shopping". Going forum to forum until they get enough opinions that THEY agree with so that they can in their own mind justify what they are about to do. Cohabitation is strongly opposed by most Corn owners.

Nobody but the person who started this thread will really know if this is the case but I think when people find out that a person could be opinion shopping, they tend to get very angry because if they respond to somebody who really doesn't care, one could see that as a complete waste of their time.

Sure somebody could stumble upon your AWESOME opinion on the subject that took you 30 minutes to create later but seriously, we all encounter just how often the Search feature on forums get used.

 

[jazzgeek]

....as there is no problem riding a motorcycle till you have a problem riding a motorcycle..... Doesn't it leave you with the feeling you're GOING to have a problem sooner or later, more likely sooner?

Nope. For me, it means that there are inherent risks to cohabbing snakes/riding a motorcycle/driving drunk.

The legalities of driving drunk aside, it's up to the individual to make a decision based on those risks. If you get a cannibalization/do a face plant/kill yourself and/or others, well, that's the game you entered into. Don't look for sympathy or come running to a forum with "OMG OMG MY SANKE LAYD EGGZ WUT DO I DO?", and expect everyone to come running to your aid.

Weigh the risks, and come to your own informed decision. Just try not to evangelize those who have made the same considerations and have come to a different informed decision than you.

regards,
jazz

 

[HaisseM]

If you have two low-end pet corns, and you decide to house them together, what can I tell you? All I have to say is that only a real fool keeps two $1,000 corns together.

Honestly I think thats the difference maker as much as its messed up....

 

[Roy Munson]

I see your point, but an extreme like DUI and cohabitating don't work as much as much as there is no problem riding a motorcycle till you have a problem riding a motorcycle..... Doesn't it leave you with the feeling you're GOING to have a problem sooner or later, more likely sooner?

To me the DUI example is better than the motorcycle example. With cohabbing and DUI, you are accepting risks FOR other organisms, without their say in the matter. Motorcycle riding presents the most risks to the rider/decision-maker. Not that a rider or even a sober motorist can't cause harm to others if they make additional risky choices...

 

[jazzgeek]

Well Messiah....

EE'S NOT THE MESSIAH!!

'Ee's a very naughty boy!

regards,
jazz