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EGGS someone give me advice

Leandrae said:
Is it that hard to accept that someone's opinion may differ from your own on the value of certain lifeforms? To some people, a pet snake is just a snake and therefore any babies of the snake are simply snakes, BFD. That same person may feel that their pet dog is not just a dog, it's a companion and family member, therefore any puppies would be potential companions and family members as well. That's all fine for them, but understand that some people just MIGHT actually feel their snake is a companion as well. Is it wrong for either of them to feel as they do? No. Why should it be ok to anthropomorphize a dog, but not a snake? That seems a bit hypocritical to me.
It is not hard for me to accept differing opinions. But it IS difficult for me to refrain from posting in response to hypocrisy, particularly when that hypocrisy is framed within an attack on what I consider to be a more rational opinion. I didn't think that the argument here was about anthropomophism. When did I ever write that it's ok to anthropomorphize a dog but not a snake? You built a straw-man argument for me, and then tore it down. But for the record, I'm not much into anthropomorphizing. My dog is a better companion animal than any snake, but it's not a person. Anthropomorphizing either animal is kind of silly to me, but not nearly as silly as anthropomorphizing a snake zygote.

But back on topic... If one poster is going to confront another for being insensitive about dealing with barely-developed snake embryos while feeding their snakes fully-formed and post-natal prey items of all ages, I'm going to call them on it.

I've already said it was fine to suggest that disposal be an option, my beef was with the way it was said.
And I didn't see a problem with the way it was worded. Difference of opinion. I do respect yours, but this is an open discussion forum. If a poster is so sensiitive that they can't handle straight talk, maybe this isn't the right place for them.

Let's put it this way:

Lets say you have a dog that is very sick and dying so you take it to the vet. If that vet were to say, "Well, he's gonna kick the bucket any day now, but eh, it's just a dog. I'll just toss him in the dumpster out back right now and save ourselves the trouble of watching him die." I would guess that most people would high tail it right out of there with their dog and never go back. So you go to another vet who says, "Your dog is very sick and unfortunately there isn't anything we can do for him. As hard as it is, it might be best to euthanize him so that he is no longer suffering." Now, the basic intent of both vets is the same however the second vet makes it much easier to accept the inevitable outcome with a more sensitive response.

Sorry, but that's a terrible analogy. You're comparing a companion animal to a small cluster of undifferentiated cells (if they're even fertilized). If the o.p. is so darned caring, they should have returned home a.s.a.p. before the health of the embryos was jeopardized by the poor conditions they've been subjected to.

This is a large community with many differences in opinion. Roy, your opinion that snakes are just snakes is completely valid. My opinion that snakes are pets is just as valid. You may not agree with my opinion nor I yours, but that is the beauty of opinions. If we all agreed on everything all the time, the world would be a very boring place.

-Janel
What does that even mean: "snakes are just snakes"? I don't remember writing that. When did I ever write that snakes can't be pets? To clarify, an undifferentiated cluster of cells is not a snake, it's not a dog, it's not a pet, and it's not a companion.
 
If the original post is read, it could be said that the original poster had no idea of the female's age,

(i think she is between 1-2 years old not sure )

but housed them together anyway, which could be classed at best as benign neglect.

(i know my snow is probably to young to breed )

(i didnt brumate them either as they are still young. )

But this part of the post seems to me like it was actually a 'deliberate mistake'

(i also bought a hovabator a while back incase this every happened. )

There are so many threads and posts about the dangers of early breeding, that it's not surprising the original post was not viewed in a totally positive light
 
It is not hard for me to accept differing opinions. But it IS difficult for me to refrain from posting in response to hypocrisy, particularly when that hypocrisy is framed within an attack on what I consider to be a more rational opinion.
But back on topic... If one poster is going to confront another for being insensitive about dealing with barely-developed snake embryos while feeding their snakes fully-formed and post-natal prey items of all ages, I'm going to call them on it.

When did I ever say that it's not ok to throw away a potential life but perfectly acceptable to kill mice to feed our snakes? I never attacked the opinion of disposal, merely the semantics of it. My statement about insensitivity was directed to HOW it was said, not that it was said at all. Yes, I realize this is sugar coating the truth, but in general you catch more flies with honey. The OP might have been more receptive to the idea had it been phrased in a gentler way. Then again, who knows, maybe blunt's the only way to do it.

Sorry, but that's a terrible analogy. You're comparing a companion animal to a small cluster of undifferentiated cells (if they're even fertilized). If the o.p. is so darned caring, they should have returned home a.s.a.p. before the health of the embryos was jeopardized by the poor conditions they've been subjected to.

Agreed the analogy was not the best...I think I put more effort into it than was necessary (I think I suddenly veered off on my own imagined tangent) The intent of what I posted was to show that the method of delivery of bad news can have a big impact on how the news is received. If the subject of disposal had been put in a kinder way, it might have been better received by the OP and others. In my scenario, if the person only received the first vet's advice, they'd likely have taken the dog home to die a slow and painful death simply because they couldn't handle the cruelty of the advice. If they received the bad news the way the second vet gave it, they're more likely to consider and accept the conclusion.

For what its worth, I agree with you regarding returning home.

What does that even mean: "snakes are just snakes"? I don't remember writing that. When did I ever write that snakes can't be pets? To clarify, an undifferentiated cluster of cells is not a snake, it's not a dog, it's not a pet, and it's not a companion.

You're right, you never said that. I read this "We're talking about freaking snake eggs" and managed to twist it around to the tangent I went off on, and I'm sorry for that. I read it as snakes alone, not the eggs :(

:-offtopic Can we get an edit button?
 
Leandrae said:
When did I ever say that it's not ok to throw away a potential life but perfectly acceptable to kill mice to feed our snakes?
You didn't, and I never wrote that you did. :)

:-offtopic Can we get an edit button?
You can buy an edit button here. It's a privilege awarded to site contributors. It's definitely worth $25 if you post a lot. :)
 
Roy Munson said:
You didn't, and I never wrote that you did. :)

You can buy an edit button here. It's a privilege awarded to site contributors. It's definitely worth $25 if you post a lot. :)

It's worth the $25 even though I don't post a lot. Done!

And thanks =) Sorry for the miscommunications and tangents I veered off on. Usually I'm a lurker and not a poster...shows huh? :D

-Janel

PS: I'll leave my posts since they've been quoted since then anyway and I've explained my intent since then, unless you think I should. Besides, it just adds to the excitement and drama!
 
diamondlil said:
If the original post is read, it could be said that the original poster had no idea of the female's age,

(i think she is between 1-2 years old not sure )

but housed them together anyway, which could be classed at best as benign neglect.

(i know my snow is probably to young to breed )

(i didnt brumate them either as they are still young. )

But this part of the post seems to me like it was actually a 'deliberate mistake'

(i also bought a hovabator a while back incase this every happened. )

There are so many threads and posts about the dangers of early breeding, that it's not surprising the original post was not viewed in a totally positive light

i was told my female was 2 but she was the same size has my yearling male!!!
and i was told it would be ok to house together as they are the same size

as for the incubator these retail at 100 pound in the uk and as it was going for 40 on Ebay i jumped at the chance to save some cash

So do not imply that i did this deliberatley. i'm would never of put her in danger on purpose and i think you are and A---hole for even thinking that of me.
 
Leandrae said:
It's worth the $25 even though I don't post a lot. Done!

And thanks =) Sorry for the miscommunications and tangents I veered off on. Usually I'm a lurker and not a poster...shows huh? :D

-Janel

PS: I'll leave my posts since they've been quoted since then anyway and I've explained my intent since then, unless you think I should. Besides, it just adds to the excitement and drama!

:-offtopic It's nice to see more people becoming contributors. Congrats! :cheers:
 
It was an interesting discussion, MOSTLY refraining from too much flaming. I enjoy civilized debates. But I can't condone name calling, even if you feel it is provoked. I can see where this is headed and don't want to be involved. If I feel the need to say something after this post, it will be in a private message.

I will find another interesting discussion to participate in.

Good bye.
 
kathylove said:
It was an interesting discussion, MOSTLY refraining from too much flaming. I enjoy civilized debates. But I can't condone name calling, even if you feel it is provoked. I can see where this is headed and don't want to be involved. If I feel the need to say something after this post, it will be in a private message.

I will find another interesting discussion to participate in.

Good bye.

I don't feel as if this thread is going to break out into arguments. It feels as though people are getting their points across without getting fiery. In my opinion this is a good thing! :)
 
jvbernard said:
i was told my female was 2 but she was the same size has my yearling male!!!
and i was told it would be ok to house together as they are the same size

as for the incubator these retail at 100 pound in the uk and as it was going for 40 on Ebay i jumped at the chance to save some cash

So do not imply that i did this deliberatley. i'm would never of put her in danger on purpose and i think you are and A---hole for even thinking that of me.
I'm sorry if I've offended you, but calling me names won't help here. I unfortunately remembered your early posts, because there aren't that many UK members here yet, and I know that you were asking about breeding a while back
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35704
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38255

so I'm just surprised that this situation happened. I'd remembered your lovely pics of your set up, and I'm not implying that you don't care about your snakes. It's obvious from reading back that you were probably planning to breed your snakes when they were older. It's a shame that your first breeding has happened this way, and it's good to hear that your female seems to be recovering well. As you are set up for incubating the eggs, I truly hope you have success in hatching and raising them.
If you want to argue with me you could send a PM so this thread stays on topic about your eggs and how they progress
 
Good Golly! This thread sure has blossomed into a train wreck on the verge of happening!
I happen to be on Leandrae's side...I think things could have...and should have been said a bit differently. You've got rep points!

jvbernard made some mistakes (who hasn't), but it sure sounds like he's doing his best to correct things. Good job!

Kudos to all the members that have been actually giving good advice in a friendly manner!

And to the few of you that are, IMO, trying to create a flame war...I'm with Kathy...Good bye!
 
snake5007 said:
I don't feel as if this thread is going to break out into arguments. It feels as though people are getting their points across without getting fiery. In my opinion this is a good thing! :)

Looks like i'm wrong.


and i think your and A---hole

I didn't see this bit.
 
I do see this becoming a flame war and fast. At this point, there's no point in beating a dead horse (humanely euthanized of course) with a stick. The fact is, the female bred and laid eggs. She's doing fine. Wonderful! They are seperated now. Super! If the eggs were fertile, have been kept in a moist substrate and kept somewhere around 80 degrees or so, you might have a chance to have babies hatch out. Cornsnake eggs are not particularly picky...fortunately. I had 6 clutches hatch out just at room temperature of 80-81 degrees. No incubator involved. If they do appear fertile when you return and you want to just keep them in a warm spot on the fridge or something like that...do so. Use the time that they are developing to research what to do with the babies once they hatch. You are going to need containers for each baby, a heat source and somewhere to keep them all until you can find homes for them. You will also need a source of day old pinkies....quite a few I might add as you will need to feed every 4 days or so. These suckers are small when born. Good luck with the eggs. Hope they do well for you.
 
Seriously....
beatdeadhorse5.gif


"And thats all I gots ta say" :cool:
 
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