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HELP!! Traumatic morning....

starsevol said:
Nope, the mouse was unecessarily TORTURED to death for trying to stay alive to satisfy some sadist's idea of revenge.
Shame on ANYONE who condones the UNECESSASARY suffering of ANY creature. And shame on YOU.

There is a special place in you-know-where for people who think nothing of cruelty. The true measure of a man is how he treats those under him, including animals.
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LOL, ok, the preacher is in the house.

First of all, nobody "condoned" the behavior. A mistake was made and people made sure that was clear. However, I would not go to the length of calling it torture. Calling someone a sadist is a bit of an overstatement. Lastly, I'm not sure who gave you the authority to start banishing people to "you know where:uhoh:" but I think you should step off your high horse for a minute and take a look at your own cruelty woven lifestyle... Do you have a car? a fridge in your household? Well you are contributing to global warming and subsequently destroying the habitat in the north, how's that for making creatures suffer. How about swatting that pesky mosquito that landed on your arm...Or even, the amount of suffering behind those coffee beans you ground into your morning cup of pick-me-up to get you started on a long day of preaching over the internet. SHAME ON YOU SHAME ON ME SHAME SHAME SHAME I'll see you in you know where suckah...:angry01:
 
Sorry, I don't agree. I'm guessing that feeder had some serious internal injuries due to the several attacks by the 3 yr old snake. Not all cats play with their food and there was no indication that this was not a efficient killing when it was turned over to the cat. What would you have had her do, take it to the vet, pay a couple of hundred dollars to have the vet put it "humanely" to sleep or would you have clobbered it over the head (not sure that wouldn't be considered inhumane either) ? Is it really that different from members on here who give non-thriving hatchlings to their kingsnakes?

I've not fed live since a 15 min lecture from a vet with my daughter's first snake years ago, but the fact is that the OP did and found out the hard way why it's not a recommended procedure.
 
zion said:
LOL, ok, the preacher is in the house.

First of all, nobody "condoned" the behavior. A mistake was made and people made sure that was clear. However, I would not go to the length of calling it torture. Calling someone a sadist is a bit of an overstatement. Lastly, I'm not sure who gave you the authority to start banishing people to "you know where:uhoh:" but I think you should step off your high horse for a minute and take a look at your own cruelty woven lifestyle... Do you have a car? a fridge in your household? Well you are contributing to global warming and subsequently destroying the habitat in the north, how's that for making creatures suffer. How about swatting that pesky mosquito that landed on your arm...Or even, the amount of suffering behind those coffee beans you ground into your morning cup of pick-me-up to get you started on a long day of preaching over the internet. SHAME ON YOU SHAME ON ME SHAME SHAME SHAME I'll see you in you know where suckah...:angry01:
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Funny stuff, considering the odds of lightning striking me upon even ENTERING a church runs about 50/50. But I DO believe in Karma.
Do you understand the difference between living your life, and gleefully watching one animal torture another to death for no reason at all? By saying that since that mouse was going to die anyway, there is NO difference between feeding it to a snake that needs to eat, or giving it to a well-fed housecat to torture because it dared to try to escape death, you ARE condoning uneccessary suffering.
Can you comprehend the difference between neccessary suffering and uneccessary suffering, or is that too much for you?
 
Weebonilass said:
Sorry, I don't agree. I'm guessing that feeder had some serious internal injuries due to the several attacks by the 3 yr old snake. Not all cats play with their food and there was no indication that this was not a efficient killing when it was turned over to the cat. What would you have had her do, take it to the vet, pay a couple of hundred dollars to have the vet put it "humanely" to sleep or would you have clobbered it over the head (not sure that wouldn't be considered inhumane either) ? Is it really that different from members on here who give non-thriving hatchlings to their kingsnakes?

I've not fed live since a 15 min lecture from a vet with my daughter's first snake years ago, but the fact is that the OP did and found out the hard way why it's not a recommended procedure.
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Weebonilass,

A thump to the head is almost a kindness, and that's what she should have done. By the words "I introduced it to my sister's cat. Revenge is sweet", that tells me that the op saw the cat killing that mouse as revenge for something the mouse did wrong. THAT is really what disturbed me, the total lack of feeling or compassion expressed here. The idea that the mouse had to pay because it did what any other animal would have done. Especially since this whole thing could have been avoided in the first place if the OP had either used frozen/thawed or thumped the mouse from the beginning!
 
starsevol said:
Weebonilass,

A thump to the head is almost a kindness, and that's what she should have done. By the words "I introduced it to my sister's cat. Revenge is sweet", that tells me that the op saw the cat killing that mouse as revenge for something the mouse did wrong. THAT is really what disturbed me, the total lack of feeling or compassion expressed here. The idea that the mouse had to pay because it did what any other animal would have done. Especially since this whole thing could have been avoided in the first place if the OP had either used frozen/thawed or thumped the mouse from the beginning!
Click to expand...


By owning a pet snake, you are supporting an industry of mice breeding, and are therefore partially responsible for the treatment and mistreatment of live feeders, even if you don't buy them.

Also, I think you're stretching the "torture" issue a little too far. Let's say the "thump" did not successfully kill the mouse, and it was left brain-dead in the garbage bin, unable to move, waiting to starve to death, that sounds about as good as Disneyworld. Giving it to the cat was a certain death, and a tasty treat for the cat. This whole story of fighting for its life and being punished for wanting to live is absurd. The cat didn't torture the mouse, it ate it.

Lastly, who said anything about being struck by lightning? That is the worst cliche I've ever heard a web-preacher use, I was waiting for the ground to open and swallow you whole.:grabbit:
 
zion said:
By owning a pet snake, you are supporting an industry of mice breeding, and are therefore partially responsible for the treatment and mistreatment of live feeders, even if you don't buy them.

Also, I think you're stretching the "torture" issue a little too far. Let's say the "thump" did not successfully kill the mouse, and it was left brain-dead in the garbage bin, unable to move, waiting to starve to death, that sounds about as good as Disneyworld. Giving it to the cat was a certain death, and a tasty treat for the cat. This whole story of fighting for its life and being punished for wanting to live is absurd. The cat didn't torture the mouse, it ate it.

Lastly, who said anything about being struck by lightning? That is the worst cliche I've ever heard a web-preacher use, I was waiting for the ground to open and swallow you whole.:grabbit:
Click to expand...

Obviously, the difference between neccessary cruelty and gratuitous cruelty eludes you. As I figured it would.

Whoa, here's a random idea....why didn't she thump the mouse and feed it to her STILL HUNGRY snake? Why would she feed snake food to the cat when the snake was still hungry?

And let's deal with facts here. The mouse did what it did BECAUSE it was fighting to survive. Do you dispute this?
This is why the mouse did not willingly climb into the snake's mouth. Comprende?
And as far as your comments about the mouse being punished for wanting to live and how ridiculous that is, things happened the way they did because the mouse WAS fighting for survival. BECAUSE of the way things turned out, the OP fed the mouse to the cat, saying REVENGE is sweet. You DO know what the word "revenge" means, don't you? And what else could the revenge been for, since things unfolded the way they did?
 
starsevol said:
Obviously, the difference between neccessary cruelty and gratuitous cruelty eludes you. As I figured it would.

Whoa, here's a random idea....why didn't she thump the mouse and feed it to her STILL HUNGRY snake? Why would she feed snake food to the cat when the snake was still hungry?

And let's deal with facts here. The mouse did what it did BECAUSE it was fighting to survive. Do you dispute this?
This is why the mouse did not willingly climb into the snake's mouth. Comprende?
And as far as your comments about the mouse being punished for wanting to live and how ridiculous that is, things happened the way they did because the mouse WAS fighting for survival. BECAUSE of the way things turned out, the OP fed the mouse to the cat, saying REVENGE is sweet. You DO know what the word "revenge" means, don't you? And what else could the revenge been for, since things unfolded the way they did?
Click to expand...

Yes, I know what the word revenge means, but I don't think the OP meant it in a way that the mouse had to pay with it life for its actions. It was simply an expression. Really, the snake was very stressed, and I think it was wise to delay feeding till later, I wouldn't have fed my snake right after an incident like that. So the OP had a stressed snake, a traumatized and possibly injured mouse. So in all reality, the OP just made due with the situation and disposed of a suffering mouse by giving it to the cat. The aspect of torture is not present. And I would appreciate if you stopped speaking as if I did not understand what you are saying. Just because my opinion is not the same as yours, it does not mean you have a higher level of understanding. But hey, if you get your jollies by talking down on people and it makes you feel smarter, by all means continue your practice.
 
By your previous comments, you appeared unable to put 2 and 2 together. So, I spoke in a way I felt you might be able to understand. I am glad to be wrong, in this case.

Let's just say I have a VERY low opinion of those who commit or condone acts of "careless cruelty". Whether you fall into that category or not, I don't know, nor do I care.
 
You all DO realize that Shagfan, thoe OPer, hasn't replied to any of this back and forth arguing since they made the OP? Between this and the debate raging over co-habbing based on what someone saw at a pet shop makes me think some people just like to argue, and its now sunken to personal attacks.
 
zion said:
LOL, ok, the preacher is in the house.

First of all, nobody "condoned" the behavior. A mistake was made and people made sure that was clear. However, I would not go to the length of calling it torture. Calling someone a sadist is a bit of an overstatement. Lastly, I'm not sure who gave you the authority to start banishing people to "you know where:uhoh:" but I think you should step off your high horse for a minute and take a look at your own cruelty woven lifestyle... Do you have a car? a fridge in your household? Well you are contributing to global warming and subsequently destroying the habitat in the north, how's that for making creatures suffer. How about swatting that pesky mosquito that landed on your arm...Or even, the amount of suffering behind those coffee beans you ground into your morning cup of pick-me-up to get you started on a long day of preaching over the internet. SHAME ON YOU SHAME ON ME SHAME SHAME SHAME I'll see you in you know where suckah...:angry01:
Click to expand...



Why do the people who always stick up for torturing animals and defend their view with "The mouse was going to be eaten anyway" always resort to childish belittling like "Preacher in the house" and "suckah"


IMO its not bashing, if you post on a public forum that you decided to gain vengence on a small animal by handing it over to a larger predator, well.....people have a right to comment on how extremely inhumane that is.

You dont have to be a preacher to know that, simple common sense goes a long way.
 
JustineNYC said:
Why do the people who always stick up for torturing animals and defend their view with "The mouse was going to be eaten anyway" always resort to childish belittling like "Preacher in the house" and "suckah"


IMO its not bashing, if you post on a public forum that you decided to gain vengence on a small animal by handing it over to a larger predator, well.....people have a right to comment on how extremely inhumane that is.

You dont have to be a preacher to know that, simple common sense goes a long way.
Click to expand...

Alright, first of all, I was not sticking up for torturing animals. Let's not take things out of context. I was sticking up for the fact that people should not run around forums telling people they are going to go to hell because they fed a possibly-dying mouse to a cat rather than smashing it on a hard surface. So if you keep the context in mind, you will see that the preacher part was about saying "shame on you etc etc you're going to hell."

On another note: If you are offended by the word suckah, then I retract it, and apologise for it was not necessary.
 
JustineNYC said:
"Get over yourself, the cat just ate the mouse that was going to get fed to the snake anyways. Do you eat meat? shame on you."



Yes you were.
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Once again,

Let's not take things out of context. I was sticking up for the fact that people should not run around forums telling people they are going to go to hell because they fed a possibly-dying mouse to a cat rather than smashing it on a hard surface.

What would you have done with the mouse?
 
zion said:
Once again,

Let's not take things out of context. I was sticking up for the fact that people should not run around forums telling people they are going to go to hell because they fed a possibly-dying mouse to a cat rather than smashing it on a hard surface.

What would you have done with the mouse?
Click to expand...


"I was sticking up for the fact that people should not run around forums telling people they are going to go to hell"


No your not, not in that post your not. Im not taking anything out of context, I used your direct quote.

You said and I quote

"Get over yourself, the cat just ate the mouse that was going to get fed to the snake anyways. Do you eat meat? shame on you." END OF POST.

PS- My mice are already dead.
 
starsevol said:
Nope, the mouse was unecessarily TORTURED to death for trying to stay alive to satisfy some sadist's idea of revenge.
Shame on ANYONE who condones the UNECESSASARY suffering of ANY creature. And shame on YOU.

There is a special place in you-know-where for people who think nothing of cruelty. The true measure of a man is how he treats those under him, including animals.
Click to expand...

I am no preacher, but if there is such a place as "you-know-where" I am quite certain that people who engage in uneccessary animal ( and human) suffering are their favorite clientelle.
And I hope I'm right!!
 
JustineNYC said:
"I was sticking up for the fact that people should not run around forums telling people they are going to go to hell"


No your not, not in that post your not. Im not taking anything out of context, I used your direct quote.

You said and I quote

"Get over yourself, the cat just ate the mouse that was going to get fed to the snake anyways. Do you eat meat? shame on you." END OF POST.

PS- My mice are already dead.
Click to expand...

Actually, that comment falls into the context of the entire conversation which unfolds throughout several posts by several different people which must all be taken into consideration in order to properly understand the meaning of each statement, hense keeping things in their proper context.

Secondly, I asked what would have have done with that mouse... A question you did not answer.
 
zion said:
Actually, that comment falls into the context of the entire conversation which unfolds throughout several posts by several different people which must all be taken into consideration in order to properly understand the meaning of each statement, hense keeping things in their proper context.

Secondly, I asked what would have have done with that mouse... A question you did not answer.
Click to expand...



I showed you, your entire quote. That is the quote I referred to, I dont see how something you said later on in the "conversation" (This isnt a conversation, its a message board where you post one specific post, and wait for a response, If no one responded after THAT post, would you continue to talk to yourself? No Your comments wouldve stood there)

What you said "later" has no bearing on that first post that I quoted and referred to as 'defending cruelty'

And I answered your question, my mice are already dead.

I cant tell you what Id do if my chute failed, if I dont jump out of airplanes.
 
Notice that in 4 pages the OP hasn't chimed back in? I think all the back and forth in this thread may have scared him off.
 
to everyone who helped out, thanks for the advice. im not going to even waste my time responding to a lot of the madness that was posted here. but dont worry mouse lovers, i have switched to the more tactful practice of putting the mouse in a paper bag and smashing it against the wall until it has a seizure.
 
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