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helping people?

K

katattata

New member
I want to start out by saying sorry if I insult anyone in saying what I am about to say. It isn't meant as a personal attack on anyone its just a feeling I have about this site In general.
I also want to start out by saying that I have been on a lot of forums, and we all know what forums are like in general. :p People take every opportunity they can to insult someone. This site is AMAZING! I dont get that feeling at all here and I think that has a lot to do with the average age being a lot older then most forums I've been on, therefor this site is more mature.
That being said I know people(Including me) Love snakes and want to see them being taken care of perfectly! Because of that I have see SOO many people being attacked because of something they are doing incorrectly.
I want the best for everyones snake and I want to help people who come here with questions but I am seriously so sick of reading a thread and it turning into a huge argument! I am new here (so this all may be out of line for me to say) but ithas made me VERY nervous to post a question I have because I dont want to get attacked. I am not saying this to be insulting I just want to say as a newbie here how negativly some of these actions have effected me and im sure other people
What I wanted to address was GOOD ways to go about a situation where someone is doing something distasteful or inhumane or whatever.
I am typing this all out because I like everyone else here want the best for all the snakes out there and I think that sometimes the community here fails to get across to people that they are really doing something wrong.
I hope people will listen to this because people on here dont flame people to feel like a bigger person like other forums but to help the snake! (Cheesy I know :p) So I was hopeing people could toss around some helpful tips about how to help someone if you disprove of what they are doing. At the least, I wanted to state how these things have effected me as a newcommer here and to alert people to this because I am sure im not the only one too scared to post a question.
I think the major issue is people get mad and insult the person with the question which automatically gets the OP on the defensive and less likely to listen to whatever suggestions are made.
I dont know if this will do anything at all I just wanted to possably help with this issue and I thought a thread about ways of helping people might help?
Anythings worth a shot if it has the possability of helping out even 1 person right?
 
Excellent post. Very well written. I hope we all do a bit better when addressing a new snake owner in the future.
 
I think it depends on the nature of the question.

I haven't been here long, and I see a little of what you refer to...but from what I have seen...a few questions that really stir things up are:

1. Can I cohabitate my snake with another
2. Can I have an unregulated UTH? Why not, my friend does it just fine...

Those two are big questions here, especially if the person asking has some form of real workd experience from a friend, and then uses that to justify doing something that we deem as wrong. I think people seem to get tired of having to answer these two questions over and over and over and over and...well, you know what I mean...Heating questions in general get worn out...many people want justification for just buying a $20 lamp with $10 bulb from the pet store. Being told that this was an unnecessary expense does not always sit well with them. I am not saying this always happens...but sometimes the new person asking questions does not simply and innocently ask questions. They sometimes try to justify their method..and do it anyway...then we see them back on in two weeks trying to figure out why their snake is regurging. I am not saying this always happens...but things like this happen around here often.

I am sure there are a few more as well. There is a FAQ, but perhaps it needs to be more obvious, or it needs to really address these two questions with great elaboration...I dunno.

Maybe a step by step guide on how to get started...with approximate prices for minimum requirements, middle-of-the-road requirements, and full blown proportional thermostat with redundancy...

Feel free to ask me anything about corns you want. I can parrot what I have learned since December...and then refer you to a senior member who has actual hands-on experience with multiple snakes with multiple issues. I simply don't have the extensive experience...but i remember lots of things, so I may be able to help in that regard. So, what kind of question do you have?
 
whilst I must admit I am unaware which posts you refer to per say... I understand the sentiment...

I too have posted about it in the past, and so have many others but...I came to understand that that's just how people are... it's not because they are mean, arrogant or "know-it-alls".... but because a community of this scale(teehee) has had to deal with many trolls, and people who came here for advice and replied very inappropriately because they didn't hear what they wanted to (God forbid they are making a mistake).

We all aspire to be lenient, patient and understanding... but we each have our own personal thresholds which will be crossed now and then... part of being human.... and sometimes that patience runs thinner and thinner as more bad experiences accumulate.

Also, people here are passionate about the well-fare of their animals, and I can understand the frustration that derives from people who come here asking questions but unwilling to actually hear the responses because it doesn't fit what they know... considering themselves smarter than any keeper who answers.

It's enough that each one of us will lose his restraint once a year... and still you will have more than one flaming post every single day...

I can't however complain... this community is the only one which I can seriously say that really makes a real effort to help and be tolerant towards one another... if you compare the proportions... this is a far more peaceful community than most.

I accept that there will be arguments here and there... and like it or not, some will be less civil than others... all we can do is -try- to be better... something which I believe most if not all people here are actively doing...

So... I consider the effort more than enough, I can't expect perfection... it's not a realistic expectation
 
I think it's because people here are passionate & when they read that someone has ALREADY made a "mistake" (no controller on UTH, co-habbing, feeding live) they tend to get, umm, grumpy. I was GOING to co-hab but hadn't done it yet, and no one jumped on me. Actually, I did get jumped on at "the other place" which is why I hardly ever go there now even though I found it when I found cs.com.

This is a great thread for us, BTW, thank you for starting it.
 
I've seen this happen on every forum I have been on. Funny thing is that the person responding negatively was probably asking the same questions a few years ago. Ask questions if you need help. Listen to the people who are responding in a caring helpful manner. Ignore the rest. That is what I do anyway.
 
Im not blaming anyone for jumping on anyone or getting grumpy when you hear there cohabing I just think that getting mad or upset and letting them know is always a bad choice. Just because your mad or frustrated doesnt mean letting them know will help, ya know ?? :p I think what someone suggested about a step by step list of everything they need and prices would be a really good thing. Im sure theres one out there and I know its included in lots of other threads but a REALLy simple one that people might accually take the time and read thoroughly might be really good :)
 
sorry I dont know how to edit but I wanted to correct something. Im not saying no one reads the FAQ or other posts I just meant if someone isnt going to read those maybe a simple one would help? Or one with the same questions about heat and f/t live mice and more then one snake in a viv and anytime someone asks about it just link them too it with nicely layed out reasons for what they should do... And I know it seems like they arnt listening but I think when they say something like "but the guy at he pet store said that a lamp is ok" I dont think it means hes unwilling to listen just wants to know why a guy he would probably confider more knowledgable then us told him something wrong...just an example...jus trying to point out people arnt always gonna listen right away and if thye seem reluctant there probably looking for more reasons?
 
katattata said:
sorry I dont know how to edit but I wanted to correct something. Im not saying no one reads the FAQ or other posts I just meant if someone isnt going to read those maybe a simple one would help? Or one with the same questions about heat and f/t live mice and more then one snake in a viv and anytime someone asks about it just link them too it with nicely layed out reasons for what they should do... And I know it seems like they arnt listening but I think when they say something like "but the guy at he pet store said that a lamp is ok" I dont think it means hes unwilling to listen just wants to know why a guy he would probably confider more knowledgable then us told him something wrong...just an example...jus trying to point out people arnt always gonna listen right away and if thye seem reluctant there probably looking for more reasons?
Click to expand...

I am not saying you're wrong... I do however think you examine each case individually... which is not necessarily a bad thing... but it does limit your ability to understand where some people here come from.
You're right, there are those who, like you say, mentioned that someone they trusted said differently...
However, I have witnessed many occasions where the person who got answers began mocking those who answered differently- stating that the person they talked to at first is "a much more experienced keeper than all of you newbies"- now... once that happens once... twice, people will lose their patience slowly but surely...

What many keepers sometime fail to remember is that there are many ways to do the same thing... this goes for just about most things in life... heck, skip bringing up snakes... there are different ways to bring up -human beings-... that being the case, I think that those who are possibly overly pushy should dial it down a notch.
On the other hand, you can't expect it not to stir powerful emotions if you actively ignore a solid base of collective experience, and do so in an unkind manner...

All I am saying is that it happened, happens and will happen in the future, just like any other place where many people from different places and beliefs meet.
And I find this community to be far better than most, by constantly trying to keep things civil.
 
This is a nicely written post, Katattata (wow, that's a finger-ful of a name to type out!) :laugh:

I think some people get tired of answering the same old same old posts about those particular subjects mentioned. On the flipside, if I give someone the FAQ and tell them to read it over and ask any questions they might have, and they still ask a co-hab or lamp question, it's frustrating because it SEEMS that they really DON'T want to know the information, but rather they want to justify why they're still co-habbing or using overhead lights or whatever...does that make sense? I'm not saying that's always the case, but I have seen examples of this. Or if they're directed to Kathy's site and recommeded that they buy her book but they say "I can't afford a book" (or a 'stat, or mat, or food, or whatever) then the passionate people shake their heads and wonder why someone would buy an animal they couldn't properly care for.

Again, I'm not excusing anyone for "going off" on a new member, but I personally think this is one of the friendlier forums a new person is going to find for care of their snake. There are thousands of people on this site with thousands of personality types. Anyone can and will get offended if they try hard enough.
 
I have seen a lot of posts where what im talking about has happened and honestly was probably not handled correctly in my opinion. I made a mistake in my post saying that it is always not the right think to do to get mad or upset and show it. I will agree there are definetly people here who come and act dumb and stir the pot and ect ect who need to be told off with a firm hand. So, that was incorreect of me to say. My thinking is, if someone come onto this site and signs up and posts a question (Which for me is kind of intimidating) it means they want to learn. Even if they seem unwilling to listen, with time they will understand what your saying. I also think getting mad at someone over the internet is a huge waste of energy :p Theres also the possability that they are playing devils advocite to learn more about why you have a heat gradient or no lamp. I know I seem like a one trick pony, always falling back on the heat example but I;ve seen this for a lot of things (I cant spell well so I dont want t o keep having to type out cohabitating rofl :p) I will admit the biggest one I have seen is heating because like someone said people have already spend money and arnt going to be happy to learn that what they baught is almost useless.
To sumerize I think there are always going to be people who come on here unwilling to learn and just start arguments to feel big, or whatever there agenda is. They should be told firmly but nicely to leave or listen. For me I would just ignore them and leave, and I think if someone is getting really frustrated with a newb not listening they should maybe not post untill there not mad and can answer level-headedly. Im sure someone else can take over for a bit. People don;t like being told there doing something wrong and not everyone is gonna listen right away..
Thats just my opinion, but im definetly of the belief you catch more flies with honey then vinigar :p
 
katattata said:
I have seen a lot of posts where what im talking about has happened and honestly was probably not handled correctly in my opinion. I made a mistake in my post saying that it is always not the right think to do to get mad or upset and show it. I will agree there are definetly people here who come and act dumb and stir the pot and ect ect who need to be told off with a firm hand. So, that was incorreect of me to say. My thinking is, if someone come onto this site and signs up and posts a question (Which for me is kind of intimidating) it means they want to learn. Even if they seem unwilling to listen, with time they will understand what your saying. I also think getting mad at someone over the internet is a huge waste of energy :p Theres also the possability that they are playing devils advocite to learn more about why you have a heat gradient or no lamp. I know I seem like a one trick pony, always falling back on the heat example but I;ve seen this for a lot of things (I cant spell well so I dont want t o keep having to type out cohabitating rofl :p) I will admit the biggest one I have seen is heating because like someone said people have already spend money and arnt going to be happy to learn that what they baught is almost useless.
To sumerize I think there are always going to be people who come on here unwilling to learn and just start arguments to feel big, or whatever there agenda is. They should be told firmly but nicely to leave or listen. For me I would just ignore them and leave, and I think if someone is getting really frustrated with a newb not listening they should maybe not post untill there not mad and can answer level-headedly. Im sure someone else can take over for a bit. People don;t like being told there doing something wrong and not everyone is gonna listen right away..
Thats just my opinion, but im definetly of the belief you catch more flies with honey then vinigar :p
Click to expand...

Your approach is idealistic... and there isn't a single person here who disagrees with you. However, the more experienced people do know that there's a difference between ideal and reality, a difference between a vision of how things should be and how things are after enough negative experiences.... you have yet to experience first hand a post where a person simply -harms- his snake by being dense and stubborn- causing repetitive regurgitation, scale rot and so on.
It is a waste of energy, true, but some can't help but get mad at a person who deliberately experiments on his snake in order to save a couple of dollars, I know I can't.

It is a good practice to have such reminders... it is however unrealistic to believe that it will vanish. Heck, I am not sure I want it to vanish, because that might mean that people will become less passionate than they are now.
 
LBoz I agree with you ESPECIALLY about the part about how great this forum is! I think everyone here is amazingly nice and always eager to go out of there way to help someone miles away. I brag about you guys to my boyfriend *blush* haha people love seeing photos of other peoples babies even though they have no connection to them :D I love it :)
heres my experience ... WELL, haha the breeder I got my corn from sat me down for 2 hours talking about care and housing and I researched it like CRAZY! To me he knew everthing about corns so I trusted his knowledge, he kept corns together in his tanks in his room with no temp gradient. I went home and I had a UTH which I used because after everything Id read I would rather my boy to have heat to be 100% perfect! When I got Silas I intended to cohab them. I kept them in the same tank with a divider at fist and was going to do that for approx 2 months and in that 2 months all I did was research about keeping corns together and it took a LOT of reading till I decided against it, all because the guy I trusted the most about wih snakes did it.... So I think that has a lot to do with it, when they have someone telling them to use a heat lamp or sand or w.e they believe it and it takes awhile to change there mind? ... Iunno Again this site is AMAZING and nearly perfect I just think there is possably room for improvment here :D even if this helps one person I see it as worth it :p
 
katattata, you have made a great point and I agree with you. Regardless of the reasons people come down hard on new people, there is no need for it. If you don't feel like answering that question again, just don't answer it.

I understand you hesitation as a new bee to post questions. I hope your stay here will be a good experience for you and your snake. I will watch for your questions and try to answer them the best I can. I hope others will as well.

I will be the one that tells you the truth however. You should be aware of that.
 
I dont think it will vaish :p that is unrealistic :p but maybe it'll help alittle, I dunno but I thought I might throw this out there :) if anyone has any other ideas throw them out there :p
 
katattata said:
I dont think it will vaish :p that is unrealistic :p but maybe it'll help alittle, I dunno but I thought I might throw this out there :) if anyone has any other ideas throw them out there :p
Click to expand...

It is good to refresh an old tree with fresh waters brimming with hope... it can sometimes make a real difference... so don't think your effort is not appreciated.
Stick around and enjoy the ride... we got snakes here, which makes this place cool enough to hang around I think.
 
Haha I definetly will stick around! :D I have ALWAYS loved snakes and reptiles since I was a kid but I had parents who were very against it and I also didnt realise how prominent snakes are? I dont know if thats the right word...I had a friend who had a corn snake and I always had the idea in my head that he had to pay boatloads for it and had to get it some obscure reptile show, and when I found out there was a breeder here and got my baby jakey I was hooked and I NEEED some more rofl :p
 
I think I like this post mainly because it serves as a reminder that we were all new and started out with our first snake at one point. I've only been keeping for just under two years and I do and probably will always think of myself as a newbie. Sometimes it takes something as simple as having things pointed out to us for us to remember back to the beginning. Thanks. :)

*edit*
Ok, Oren clearly writes MUCH more eloquently, so yeah, what he said. ;)
 
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wade said:
I will be the one that tells you the truth however. You should be aware of that.
Click to expand...

I'm trying to decide if this is a dangerous statement or not...:dgrin::sidestep:
That being said...I'd follow most advice you'd give me...although if its tequila related I might not be able too....:grin01:

Anyway...Lori said it well when she said this serves as reminder of early days. (sorry lady, i used all my rep...)
Its good to remember that theres a starting point for everything...and it does Us, the public, and The Herp Community in general a lot of good to foster a love of (in our case corn snakes) all herps. If people come here and learn why we love them, and how to love them for themselves....things like the python ban might not be -so- frightening. Being Canadian, its a distant kind of fear I have for that kind of regulation. I know its not me thats on the proverbial chopping block, but it could be someday, and if it happens there it WILL be the case here someday.
When people come here to cs.com and feel welcome, its a step in the right direction. That direction being (in my mind) a generally positive attitude from the public towards herps (rather than the fear and negativity that seems to surround herps at the moment for the public)...similar to that of cats, dogs, hamsters, and other common household pets. When people leave here feeling badly it may not be directly negitive, its not helping either. They're either going to go get a snake and do whatever the heck they want and it'll suffer because of it, or they wont keep snakes at all...either way...not helping the cause.
I try to educate anyone I can reach or be heard by about the wonders of reptiles, what great pets they make, why I love them, and all the cool things about them. This is in real life and online.
We are all ambassadors for the herp community...by being owners we take on this role. No need for the mean stuff...but I'll be the first to say if someone has no interest in learning then theres nothing to say to them.
Lets use our passion for keeping these creatures for the betterment of the whole culture, not in petty little snipes on an online forum. We're ALL smarter and better than that. :cool:
 
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