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helping people?

you say everyone is intitled to say what they think but when someone has corn raising techniques that arnt what most people agree with they get flames....theres no debate or logical conversation...that doesnt seem liek freedom to speech....but whatever...also I am not about to single out one event...it happens and I thinnk everyone here has seen what I am talking about

Well...its usually in direct reference to a few specific triggers for the flames (as you put it). Everyone is entitled to a say, but when someone (no one in particular...just for example) tries to contradict what a more experienced member has to say, they had better have some experience of their own to back it up with. Not something they've seen, or something their friend does.
Also, there is no real guarantee the rest of the community will agree. Only you can decide whats best for you and your animals. I spoke about experience before, and thats where anyone who posts on this forum speaks from: experience. They tell you what they've learned from keeping corns longer than I've been alive. (not trying to make anyone feel old...just saying)
This kind of experience comes with passion, and so I suppose sometimes the 'touchy' topics get heated. Mistakes don't come cheap in this hobby, so when someone wants to do something that will most likely end in a hurt or dead snake someone is going to speak up, LOUDLY.
Sometimes people might go a little too far...be too cold or confrontational. But its not in general, only on the touchy topics, you ALL know what ones I mean.
2corns1cage, t-stat, whatever, blah, blah, blah. I've never seen someone get the business for absolutely no reason on here.

To the OP: If you really do think that people get 'jumped' on for having opinions, I really am sorry you feel that way...I guess I just don't see what your talking about.
 
I never said people get jumped on for having opinions :( I knwo people do and it would be silly to think they dont I am just suggesting ways to go about dealing with those topics that get heated right away ... I know peoplesometimes deserve to be flammed I just think it would be better to walk awya rather then flame them ...
 
you say everyone is intitled to say what they think but when someone has corn raising techniques that arnt what most people agree with they get flames....theres no debate or logical conversation...that doesnt seem liek freedom to speech....but whatever...also I am not about to single out one event...it happens and I thinnk everyone here has seen what I am talking about
No, I think you do need an example. I had a rough start here and I've been guilty of continuing arguments with newer members, but as far as I know only when they insist on ignoring advice or on doing things that have been shown to be harmful to their animals. That's what this is really about for most of us; the animals. Sure, sometimes it gets cliquey and catty here, but we're a pretty small corner of the internet and bumping elbows sometimes is expected. No one just tears into people for no reason... If you've seen that somewhere, it's either because the thread starter has set precedent of being obnoxious or they've shown themselves to be in the thread... no one will criticize an honest question.
 
I just think it would be better to walk away rather then flame them ...

I agree - and I think almost everyone would agree. It's just that we humans don't always manage to DO what we really think we SHOULD do, at least when we are calm and collected and thinking rationally. Some have quicker tempers than others, and might post before they have time to calm down. I think most would agree that it's best to walk away rather than flame. But I bet we will still occasionally slip up, especially if annoyed enough. Discussing it now and then might help somebody hold out a little longer next time they are provoked, though - who knows?
 
It's all about personal human nature which varies from human to human. Your instinct is to walk and away and remain silent otherwise known as passive behavior. Others instinct is to butt heads with the person they disagree with otherwise known as agressive behavior. Neither is more right than the other just different ways to handle adversity. Again all I can say is I haven't seen a member flamed for asking a question, but instead for asking a question and then being nasty when they don't like the answer. I happen to treat others as they treat me. If someone is seriously in need of advice or help I am helpful- if someone is rude I am rude. You should treat people the way you feel is right when threads get sticky, but don't expect others to do as you do:)
 
all im saying is FOR THE SNAKES if someone is rude you should walk away or continue to act friendly....i know its hard and it takes a lot of effort fro me and im non confrontational ... Im not tellling everyone they HAVE to do this it was just a suggestion and friendly reminder
 
I want to start out by saying sorry if I insult anyone in
saying what I am about to say. It isn't meant as a personal attack on anyone its just a
feeling I have about this site In general.

I also want to start out by saying that I have been on a lot of forums, and we all know
what forums are like in general. :p People take every opportunity they can to insult
someone. This site is AMAZING! I dont get that feeling at all here and I think that has a
lot to do with the average age being a lot older then most forums I've been on, therefor
this site is more mature.

That being said I know people(Including me) Love snakes and want to see them being
taken care of perfectly! Because of that I have see SOO many people being attacked
because of something they are doing incorrectly.

I want the best for everyones snake and I want to help people who come here with
questions but I am seriously so sick of reading a thread and it turning into a huge
argument! I am new here (so this all may be out of line for me to say) but ithas made
me VERY nervous to post a question I have because I dont want to get attacked. I am
not saying this to be insulting I just want to say as a newbie here how negativly some
of these actions have effected me and im sure other people

What I wanted to address was GOOD ways to go about a situation where someone is
doing something distasteful or inhumane or whatever.

I am typing this all out because I like everyone else here want the best for all the
snakes out there and I think that sometimes the community here fails to get across to
people that they are really doing something wrong.

I hope people will listen to this because people on here dont flame people to feel like a
bigger person like other forums but to help the snake! (Cheesy I know :p) So I was
hopeing people could toss around some helpful tips about how to help someone if you
disprove of what they are doing. At the least, I wanted to state how these things have effected me as a newcommer here and to alert people to this because I am sure im not the only one too scared to post a question.
I think the major issue is people get mad and insult the person with the question which
automatically gets the OP on the defensive and less likely to listen to whatever
suggestions are made.

I dont know if this will do anything at all I just wanted to possably help with this issue
and I thought a thread about ways of helping people might help?

Anythings worth a shot if it has the possability of helping out even 1 person right?

It had been inferred to me thru a few persons here longer than me,

that there was some strife and differences of opinion ocassionally, dustups, flareups,
etc, for sometime before I made my appearance on this forum.


When I first arrived, there were (then) current examples of all of those issues. Like
moving into a new neighborhood, in a rough part of town, I tried emulating behaviors
displayed by some of the more virulent hoodies. It did not end well. If one wants to fit
in, sometimes some behavioral modifications are necessary to do so. Sometimes.
Then I won a oneway vacation. It was a good thing. There are many posts I do not need
to respond to; many that someone who frequently posts can answer. I don't need to
jump in on every new thread. Let someone with more free time on their hands handle it.
Just because others behave poorly is not a reason to do so. Fitting in, in the short "good
for the moment" term, may not be such a hot idea in the long run.


There seems to be 2 main groups of persons here: persons who have a few pets, and,
persons who are professional cornsnake breeders/producers. There are other types too,
of course, in the mix. Most of the breeders simply dont have the time to dedicate to
keeping up with the www. The pet cornysnakers crowd have more time generally, both
groups need each other, and that just seems to be how it is. I do not see/have not read
of -the pro-breeders getting caught up in heated discussions off topic.


Eff all y'all.

I often ask myself:

"Is this post I am about to make:
Suitable reading material for a 6 year old who is doing a school report on cornsnakes?"

I think the thing new people need very most to understand is that in this big bad old
world there are nice people and rude people. We have both here. Listen to the nice
people and ignore the rude people. Easier said than done but a very good way to
stumble through life. There is good information to be had here and you will get the help
you need here if you don’t allow the rude people to drive you away.


If you take all the good things about a person and all the bad things about a person and
put them together what you come up with is an average person.

We all have our moments. Unless we're Gods.

In ancient theater if an actor played more than one role in the production in a
performance, then he was considered to display "multiple personalities". Each
different "persona" acted out on the stage was sheilded by a different mask. In an age
when it was not difficult to tick off the ruler and get put to death, being proclaimed
as "having multiple personalities" was high praise. it was safer to be a soldier than an
actor. Interesting people, in my observed experience, are always more than "one faced"
. It's the ones whom tick me off the most (by challenging my thinking) that I usually
gain the most insight from in the long term.

Around 3/4ths of the average daily posts are made by the "regulars" on the site. There
are many professional CS types who dont post on any site. (waves gif).



Other questions that come to mind include:

1. What might insecurities coupled with enthusiasm may be mistaken for? Arrogance? Self righteousness? An excuse to jump on the newbie?

2. Who's best qualified to answ a Q or knows all of the answers to everything? Is the answer provided based on assumption, direct experience, many years of direct experience, or something else?
(I do not know everything).


3. What about variances in geographical location of persons asking a question? If they are in Corsica, and I am in Nebraska, am I really qualified to answer their question?

4. Will what works for one person one time may not work another?

5. Do I need to respond to this? (aka big fish become big by not biting on phishing bait)

6. Will a post that makes me feel good for the moment may make me look like -- forever? (Writing is "words that stay").

7. Do you know when not to respond? (know thyself; know thy limits)

Thanks katattata, for the "DYK how 2 play?" thread.
warm regards,
dp
 
all im saying is FOR THE SNAKES if someone is rude you should walk away or continue to act friendly....i know its hard and it takes a lot of effort fro me and im non confrontational ... Im not tellling everyone they HAVE to do this it was just a suggestion and friendly reminder

I can only speak for myself, but my earlier response was only to the quote that it referenced. I thought your original post was well done, and a really good point. I just disagreed with the earlier post that I quoted, and then explained what I disagreed with.
 
I think most would agree that it's best to walk away rather than flame. But I bet we will still occasionally slip up, especially if annoyed enough.

Boy is that ever true. The most frightened I have ever been in my life was when I pissed Kathy off. I have never seen anyone fly off the handle like she does.
 
Have to agree with Kathy (well duh, who wouldn't?)
You need to realize that the reason -behind- the fact that these issues cause such a stir is because these subjects have been discussed many many times, and in those times, the person who asked the question was not too civil about hearing opinions that were better established than his.

At the end of the day, this is a forum... nothing more, it is the choice of the reader if he is offended or not... but there's really no point to try and adjust people's responses so that they would fit our specific wants and taste... once you ask a public question, you will hear a lot of replies... and it is up to you to choose which advice you are going to follow and which you don't.

That's just how human societies work- we can all continue and state the obvious, that acceptance and tolerance are crucial.... and as I said before, I find most people here to be very aware of this. But there will be slip ups, and with so many people around, it's enough that one person gets upset once a year for the forum to seem "plagued" with flaming.
 
all im saying is FOR THE SNAKES if someone is rude you should walk away or continue to act friendly....i know its hard and it takes a lot of effort fro me and im non confrontational ... Im not tellling everyone they HAVE to do this it was just a suggestion and friendly reminder

It is for the snakes all of this exhists. Everything HERE is for the snake. Arguments included. You have made a good point, and many people agree with you (myself included) but there also has to be an element of understanding that this will not ALWAYS be possible, or appropriate. We are all human. You are right, and if you read my posts earlier I mention the same thing: it benefits the snake community for us to treat with respect the new members that join.
But if the new member just starts off with "none of you know anything about keeping snakes and i dont care what you say" There is not going to be a person alive that will respond positively to that attitude, and that kind of attitude only gains momentum. So it might be better to walk away in the first place, but even with no fuel fires like that burn on their own..and then someone does say something....and then its a full blown '2corns1cage'
 
I agree I dont think it is always possable :) im just saying if it is possable, it should be done ? ya dig? :D lol I think were both saying the same thing here :)
 
I HATE HATE HATE live feeders and co habbers.....
that said I LOVE newbies.

If a newbie does one of the above, I will try to point them in the right direction as nicely as possible.

If the welfare of their snakes are important to them, and they listen and adjust their husbandry accordingly, they will have a friend forever in me.

If they are more interested in "watching the kill" or saving money on a second viv over the welfare of those creatures who depend on them....well...that is another story altogether.....
 
I HATE HATE HATE live feeders and co habbers.....
that said I LOVE newbies.

If a newbie does one of the above, I will try to point them in the right direction as nicely as possible.

If the welfare of their snakes are important to them, and they listen and adjust their husbandry accordingly, they will have a friend forever in me.

If they are more interested in "watching the kill" or saving money on a second viv over the welfare of those creatures who depend on them....well...that is another story altogether.....

Yes! this is the heart of it right here. Exactly.
 
I agree I dont think it is always possable :) im just saying if it is possable, it should be done ? ya dig? :D lol I think were both saying the same thing here :)

I think we all agree on that. I don't think there's anyone I have had much of any contact with here that is mean just to be mean. But there are 3 things that get people revved up and unpleasant when the OP expresses that they think we are wrong or stupid & they indicate they aren't going to change:

live feeding
co-habbing
cooking the snake (using UTHs without any regulation of the temp)

Unfortunately, when the OP indicates they are doing one of those & have no interest in reading why they shouldn't, they are gonna go down in flames.
 
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