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helping people?
- Thread starter katattata
- Start date
RosieReal
New member
Oh Orin!! just take a compliment already.
I'm just teasing, your refreshingly humble...although you did remind me of this quote from George Eloit
"No compliment can be eloquent, except as an expression of indifference."
kathylove
Pragmatic & Logical
Thanks for the post, katattata!
As Lori said, it is good to remind the ol' timers once in a while what it is like to be a newbie here. But I have to agree that MOST of the time a newbie gets jumped on, it is not because of the question they asked, but because of how they responded to the advice given. Although I believe in, and TRY to practice, diplomatic and even handed control at ALL times, I can understand occasional lapses. A person putting in volunteer effort in typing out honest info based on their experience and what they have learned from others, only to be told (sometimes rather arrogantly or contemptuously) that they are wrong and don't know what they are talking about, can be forgiven for sometimes losing their cool. I still think it would be a better idea to be polite, but there have been many times that I just gave up on a thread so that I would not be tempted to say what I really thought as well.
I wouldn't worry too much about the questions you ask. You don't seem like you would come back with arrogant responses that get people stirred up. If a reply is mean spirited and it is totally unwarranted, especially towards a newbie, another old timer often steps in to help. But it is hard to feel sorry for a poster if they are acting kind of troll - like. In that case, I usually just bow out and let things sort themselves out.
You sound like a thinking person who will be a real asset to our community!
As Lori said, it is good to remind the ol' timers once in a while what it is like to be a newbie here. But I have to agree that MOST of the time a newbie gets jumped on, it is not because of the question they asked, but because of how they responded to the advice given. Although I believe in, and TRY to practice, diplomatic and even handed control at ALL times, I can understand occasional lapses. A person putting in volunteer effort in typing out honest info based on their experience and what they have learned from others, only to be told (sometimes rather arrogantly or contemptuously) that they are wrong and don't know what they are talking about, can be forgiven for sometimes losing their cool. I still think it would be a better idea to be polite, but there have been many times that I just gave up on a thread so that I would not be tempted to say what I really thought as well.
I wouldn't worry too much about the questions you ask. You don't seem like you would come back with arrogant responses that get people stirred up. If a reply is mean spirited and it is totally unwarranted, especially towards a newbie, another old timer often steps in to help. But it is hard to feel sorry for a poster if they are acting kind of troll - like. In that case, I usually just bow out and let things sort themselves out.
You sound like a thinking person who will be a real asset to our community!
wade
Save The Humans
I think I like this post mainly because it serves as a reminder that we were all new and started out with our first snake at one point.
I have never been new. I was born old.
I was born one morning the sun didn't shine
I picked up my shovel and walked to the mine......
When God said "Let there be light", Wade was there to flip the switch...at least, I think that's how it goes...
danielle
New member
Amen Lori!! The botom line is there are very detailed FAQ sections on every question imaginable and a search function within every sub-forum. People at times post questions like "I read on here not to feed live, but can I anyway", or I read not to cohab, but I am and it's working great". Those are questions your not going to get a nice response too and people are going to call the OP out on being annoying because it is.
Some great people on here took the time to write long FAQ sheets and newbies act like they are just suggesions, don't even take the time to read them, or use lack of money as an excuse to provide substandard care. I have NEVER seen a newbie mistreated for asking a question here, but yes if you ask and then don't take sound advice people have every right to tell you you've irritated them by wasting their time.
Some great people on here took the time to write long FAQ sheets and newbies act like they are just suggesions, don't even take the time to read them, or use lack of money as an excuse to provide substandard care. I have NEVER seen a newbie mistreated for asking a question here, but yes if you ask and then don't take sound advice people have every right to tell you you've irritated them by wasting their time.
wstphal
working in the Gulag
Examples of newbie questions that worked:
I tried reading the FAQ but I couldn't find the answer to...?
I tried to find the FAQ but I couldn't, please help.
I'm thinking about doing ... with my snake(s), should I?
There are a few hot-button issues that cause major reactions, which are cohabbing, plugging the UTH into the wall socket directly & live feeding, but if someone is reasonably polite, they are not too likely to get shot down here even if they say something like "My friend told me I have to feed my corn snake live mice, is that so?"
I tried reading the FAQ but I couldn't find the answer to...?
I tried to find the FAQ but I couldn't, please help.
I'm thinking about doing ... with my snake(s), should I?
There are a few hot-button issues that cause major reactions, which are cohabbing, plugging the UTH into the wall socket directly & live feeding, but if someone is reasonably polite, they are not too likely to get shot down here even if they say something like "My friend told me I have to feed my corn snake live mice, is that so?"
bitsy
Owned by Corns since 1991
I certainly don't mind trying to answer any question if I have time and I think I can make a useful contribution. Sometimes it pays to use Search, but I know it took me a couple of months to notice it when I first started lurking here.
Something that's particularly irritating is someone being given advice, refusing to take it, then coming back and repeatedly asking why the problem keeps recurring. There are only so many suggestions you can make, before you have to conclude that the person asking just isn't going to do anything that has been advised. I tend to switch off at that point, although I can - much to my shame - be snappy instead. I like to think it's more out of concern for the snake, but I'm never proud of myself when it happens and I always try to have a voluntary time-out to get over myself.
Kathy's hit the nail on the head (as usual!). What grinds my gears is someone getting similar advice from a range of people, then arguing against it. I tend to wonder why they had to ask in the first place, if they're already so confident about the answer.
Something that's particularly irritating is someone being given advice, refusing to take it, then coming back and repeatedly asking why the problem keeps recurring. There are only so many suggestions you can make, before you have to conclude that the person asking just isn't going to do anything that has been advised. I tend to switch off at that point, although I can - much to my shame - be snappy instead. I like to think it's more out of concern for the snake, but I'm never proud of myself when it happens and I always try to have a voluntary time-out to get over myself.
Teddy Roosevelt
i loev cronsankes
Heck, I don't use the "other forum" much period. It's not as active as this one and it's too... "THIS FORUM IS FOR THIS ONLY AND GOD HELP YOU IF YOU POST SOMETHING ELSE"
I had a similar experience. When I first came on here with my "anery" corn, Boo, people pointed out he had too much red to be an anery. I fought tooth an nail that he was for a while, and the breeder insisted he was, too, but after every shed it becomes more apparent that if he's an anery, hes one of those aneries that get a lot of red and orange and yellow!LBoz I agree with you ESPECIALLY about the part about how great this forum is! I think everyone here is amazingly nice and always eager to go out of there way to help someone miles away. I brag about you guys to my boyfriend *blush* haha people love seeing photos of other peoples babies even though they have no connection to them
heres my experience ... WELL, haha the breeder I got my corn from sat me down for 2 hours talking about care and housing and I researched it like CRAZY! To me he knew everthing about corns so I trusted his knowledge, he kept corns together in his tanks in his room with no temp gradient. I went home and I had a UTH which I used because after everything Id read I would rather my boy to have heat to be 100% perfect! When I got Silas I intended to cohab them. I kept them in the same tank with a divider at fist and was going to do that for approx 2 months and in that 2 months all I did was research about keeping corns together and it took a LOT of reading till I decided against it, all because the guy I trusted the most about wih snakes did it.... So I think that has a lot to do with it, when they have someone telling them to use a heat lamp or sand or w.e they believe it and it takes awhile to change there mind? ... Iunno Again this site is AMAZING and nearly perfect I just think there is possably room for improvment here
2ndChildhood
New member
I've been on the forum for about a year now, and as a newbie I would like to add my 2 cents.
If it wasn't for Kathy's book (not available in PetChain), I would have been following what information I had, and probably questioned what I was told here because it conflicted with the information I had gotten from other sources. As a person new to snakes and new to the forum I would not have been able to weigh the written information (see below) over the opinion of someone on the forum until I knew them and the forum better, so I may have also defended my care methods and gotten flamed for it. As an example:
When I started doing research before purchasing, I went to 2 bookstores and 3 pet chain stores before I found a general book on corn snakes & rat snakes. The only portion of this book that addresses co-habbing is in the quarantine section: "If more than one rat snake is acquired, each should be housed individually during this period". Nothing else that I could find about not co-habbing them in general. They also mention heating; "keep one end of the tank cool (65-75F)...the warm end of the tank can be between 75-82 F for rat snakes from high altitude or northern climes, to as high as 88-95 F for warmth-loving species...". I don't know about you, but that is confusing to me, are all corns "warmth-loving species"?
One of the PetChain Caresheets
"members of the same species may be housed together but must be seperated during feeding"
"Temperature gradient (85 F for the warm end and 70 F for the cool end) recommend radiant heat; use an incandescent light or ceramic heater as primary heat source, use undertank heat as secondary source"
I know the forum better now, and know that you all have a great passion for the animals, but sometimes I do feel intimidated by the strong opinions here and the way they can be expressed.
If it wasn't for Kathy's book (not available in PetChain), I would have been following what information I had, and probably questioned what I was told here because it conflicted with the information I had gotten from other sources. As a person new to snakes and new to the forum I would not have been able to weigh the written information (see below) over the opinion of someone on the forum until I knew them and the forum better, so I may have also defended my care methods and gotten flamed for it. As an example:
When I started doing research before purchasing, I went to 2 bookstores and 3 pet chain stores before I found a general book on corn snakes & rat snakes. The only portion of this book that addresses co-habbing is in the quarantine section: "If more than one rat snake is acquired, each should be housed individually during this period". Nothing else that I could find about not co-habbing them in general. They also mention heating; "keep one end of the tank cool (65-75F)...the warm end of the tank can be between 75-82 F for rat snakes from high altitude or northern climes, to as high as 88-95 F for warmth-loving species...". I don't know about you, but that is confusing to me, are all corns "warmth-loving species"?
One of the PetChain Caresheets
"members of the same species may be housed together but must be seperated during feeding"
"Temperature gradient (85 F for the warm end and 70 F for the cool end) recommend radiant heat; use an incandescent light or ceramic heater as primary heat source, use undertank heat as secondary source"
I know the forum better now, and know that you all have a great passion for the animals, but sometimes I do feel intimidated by the strong opinions here and the way they can be expressed.
wade
Save The Humans
You guys know this is getting really funny here. The ones being talked to are also the ones above saying “OH no, not me, no way, we love nubes but you gotta learn to ask questions”
2nd childhood, actually what you know is what is the general consensus here. If you go against that consensus, you will be shot. Don’t ever doubt that. The thing that many people here will not admit is that keeping and breeding cornsnakes is not an exact science. There are as many ways to do it as there are people doing it. Chances are very good you could have followed the pet store care sheet and been just fine. Of course you would never want to admit it here.
I think the thing new people need very most to understand is that in this big bad old world there are nice people and rude people. We have both here. Listen to the nice people and ignore the rude people. Easier said than done but a very good way to stumble through life. There is good information to be had here and you will get the help you need here if you don’t allow the rude people to drive you away.
2nd childhood, actually what you know is what is the general consensus here. If you go against that consensus, you will be shot. Don’t ever doubt that. The thing that many people here will not admit is that keeping and breeding cornsnakes is not an exact science. There are as many ways to do it as there are people doing it. Chances are very good you could have followed the pet store care sheet and been just fine. Of course you would never want to admit it here.
I think the thing new people need very most to understand is that in this big bad old world there are nice people and rude people. We have both here. Listen to the nice people and ignore the rude people. Easier said than done but a very good way to stumble through life. There is good information to be had here and you will get the help you need here if you don’t allow the rude people to drive you away.
Roy Munson
New member
Eff all y'all.
hey my deal is if a person is annoying or wont listen to advice or is generally a pain just walk away or leave the frum and someone else will probly come in an try to make them listen to them. Its not ok to flip out because there were an *** first I think we shud just leave before saying something mean
Also, I think something that is overlooked is that when you see a question as annoying because it is asked so much, but the noob doesnt know that its asked a lot. I dont know why we can take out the frustration of answering the same question on someone who wants to help there snake by asking the question. Does that make sence? Maybe we should think there is a reason everyone is asking that question. Obviously people can not easily find the answer to those common questions.
Also, the search button seems to never find what I want when I use it so I dont think you should really expect someone knew to the site to be able to flawlessly use the search button ( And im a computer programmer and it still gets the best of me! ) rofl
I think we shud just leave before saying something mean Also, I think something that is overlooked is that when you see a question as annoying because it is asked so much, but the noob doesnt know that its asked a lot. I dont know why we can take out the frustration of answering the same question on someone who wants to help there snake by asking the question. Does that make sence? Maybe we should think there is a reason everyone is asking that question. Obviously people can not easily find the answer to those common questions.
Also, the search button seems to never find what I want when I use it so I dont think you should really expect someone knew to the site to be able to flawlessly use the search button ( And im a computer programmer and it still gets the best of me! ) rofl
LBoz
Original Curmudgeon
And can I get an amen??
Lucille
New member
Well said Wade, and good advice.
Lucille
New member
A tempting offer :grin01:
danielle
New member
Katattata, obviously you are a nice nonconfrontational person which is great- people like you are good at balancing things. However, I still have yet to see someone freak on a newbie for asking a question- do you have a specific example? This forum is pretty big on allowing freedom of speech if you haven't noticed and when people argue relentlessly about hot issues or lack of money to care properly for their animals they will be typed to not so nicely, but not for simply asking a question. I think if we ignore people who give bad advice or praise poor care others who are new themselves may sumble across and think it's okay when it isn't. I also think we all have the right within reason to express ourselves, our feelings, and our thoughts. For those who are offended or don't like confrontational conversations they can choose to ignore the thread, or be helpful
you say everyone is intitled to say what they think but when someone has corn raising techniques that arnt what most people agree with they get flames....theres no debate or logical conversation...that doesnt seem liek freedom to speech....but whatever...also I am not about to single out one event...it happens and I thinnk everyone here has seen what I am talking about