His first live one!

[Carinata]

I understand that and agree with you there, but I do think that we all desire to see our animals in a natural setting, doing what they would do in nature.

 

[Outcast]

http://www.theodoreroosevelt.org/kidscorner/tr_teddy.htm

Canned hunt.

 

[starsevol]

I understand that and agree with you there, but I do think that we all desire to see our animals in a natural setting, doing what they would do in nature.

No....no we don't....Not if it is a PET.

 

[Outcast]

I understand that and agree with you there, but I do think that we all desire to see our animals in a natural setting, doing what they would do in nature.

If that were true, we would all be outside following snakes and other animals around with a notebook taking notes... Wait... that's what I will be doing this summer....DoH!

 

[Carinata]

I do. I have a fascination with snakes. I would love to see a King Ratsnake take out a Cobra and eat it. Does that mean I want to buy the next Cobra I see at the Hamburg show to feed my snake? No! It means if I had the chance to observe it, say in the wild, I would. I love seeing snakes in nature, it's really cool to watch and gives you a better understanding of the animal.

 

[Carinata]

If that were true, we would all be outside following snakes and other animals around with a notebook taking notes... Wait... that's what I will be doing this summer....DoH!

I have kept a log of every snake I've found, where I found it, the weather, and what the area was like, since 2008

 

[Outcast]

I have kept a log of every snake I've found, where I found it, the weather, and what the area was like, since 2008

That is pretty cool stuff man. You should get in touch with your state Fish and Game Herpetologist. I know that they like to get that type of information from people. It helps them with numbers and such.

 

[Lyion]

Wow. What happened to last point ever lol.

 

[Lyion]

But yes, I'll admit that I find it fascinating to see how a snake takes down a mouse. However, this isn't the wild, and my snake is a pet snake, so I'll stick to F/T. Honestly, instead of attacking live users, how about we educate? This whole thing could have gone over very smoothly if we simply educated, and not accused.

 

[Lyion]

Also I'm super sensitive so I would probably grab that mouse the second that I got him in the store and buy a cage with a little wheel and everything.

 

[Outcast]

But yes, I'll admit that I find it fascinating to see how a snake takes down a mouse. However, this isn't the wild, and my snake is a pet snake, so I'll stick to F/T. Honestly, instead of attacking live users, how about we educate? This whole thing could have gone over very smoothly if we simply educated, and not accused.

Your sentiment is well intended. But, you can only educate those who are willing to be educated. The reason this thread got so out of hand was because within the past few weeks, there have been many people trolling this forum with various threads. Many of the long term members have long since given up even trying to talk to people in these threads, because of the hurt feelings that always happen.

Also, it has been my experience that people tend to only reply to responses that are very passionate. If you go back and read through my responses within this thread, and many threads like this. I rarely get a response, and that is with me posting in a relatively kind, though stern, manner.
I try not to hurt feelings, but by the time I stumble upon threads like this, they have usually taken a turn for the worst anyways.

Also, when you try to educate someone, or try to find out why they do something, and the response is "Its my choice", that tends to get things even more heated, because that is not an answer, it is an excuse to do something dangerous...

I choose to feed F/T because I have a snake with bad scarring from her previous owners feeding live. I fed her live once and she got bit on the head, I didn't like hearing the scream of the mouse. There has been enough death caused directly by my hands, I would much rather get a frozen/packaged mouse to feed my snake. Also, if I had to feed PreKilled, I would do it quick and painless... There are some times when I have to put animals down around the farm, or at work. It hurts me to have to do so, but I know that ending their suffering is better than keeping them alive to suffer longer...

And, I have raised farm animals for food, which one day I hope to do again. It is cheaper than going to the store and buying it from somewhere that pumped God knows what into them. I haven't killed a farm animal since before I joined the military, so I am not sure if I have it in me to do it any more, but I will find out one day.

Now, if I have a non-feeder, or something that I caught that I want to keep (which does happen from time to time) I try to get them to eat live and then ween them to F/T. Luckily I have only ever caught baby snakes and they have all taken one live pink, and immediately switched to F/T. Generally if I cannot get them to eat, they go right back to the spot I caught them at...

And, At the moment I only have 1 W/C snake. A gopher snake that a kid dropped off at Petco. Though this snake refused live and went straight to F/T, no problem. Which is how I ended up with another pet rat...

So, Education does not work unless the other party is willing to be educated.

 

[Farmgirl]

"That word, I do not think it means what you think it means."

the Princess Bride, I love it!!

 

[firfly]

I am new here, and read this thread from start to finish. I would like to say everyone has a right to his or her opinion and if you dont agree with it, attack it from a point of education. Not the degrading or redicule of another individual, you value a reptile over its owner and call him inhumane. I realize most of you are thinking this guy is new what right does he have? Well first I am an American so every right afforded as such. Secondly although new to snakes, I have raised and breed tarantulas for years, and am a member of multiple forums to this day. We lost alot of new would be hobbiest over the years with threads such as the one I just read, and that is unfortunate because we had the ability and knowledge if done correctly to educate and possibly change the mind of that indivdual instead, we humiliated, rediculed and made them feel so uncomfortable in one thread they never returned. I am new as stated to snakes I have much to learn from all of you, but it would seem tolerence and patience need to be learned by all concerned.

 

[Farmgirl]

Nicely said

 

[Shiari]

There would have been more tolerance and patience without Legion egging the thread on, firfly. He's admitted to trolling several times, so we can never tell if he's being 'serious' or just trying to get a rise out of us.

He gets psychosexual satisfaction out of watching the death of an animal.
He thinks euthanasia in any form, for any reason, is inhumane.
He does not care if his snake gets injured or dies.

And unfortunately, the OP got caught in the crossfire of dealing with the troll.

 

[beautifullywild77]

A couple of us even apologized to the OP for our behavior!

 

[firfly]

There would have been more tolerance and patience without Legion egging the thread on, firfly. He's admitted to trolling several times, so we can never tell if he's being 'serious' or just trying to get a rise out of us.

He gets psychosexual satisfaction out of watching the death of an animal.
He thinks euthanasia in any form, for any reason, is inhumane.
He does not care if his snake gets injured or dies.

And unfortunately, the OP got caught in the crossfire of dealing with the troll.

Like I said I read from start to finish, I realize what you are saying, the same holds true on any forum. However the members here that know this could have stopped alot. Its kind of like my parents said, just shake your head and hold your tounge if you have nothing which is neither nice or constructive to add other wise you are part of the problem not a solution. I just wanted everyone here to know that the newbies are reading and learning how you react to a question or post. When they read such an attack you cut off your chances of educating the young herper for fear of reticule when they make a mistake. My son is the reason I am here he has studied and learned much from all of you. I just think maybe everyone should step back and realize some of your members are not adults, they are learning and you are very much teachers.

 

[firfly]

On another note, I dont want anything Ive posted to come accross as condinseding to anyone just food for thought. I would also like to thank all of you, because of your threads and post I am learning a ton. So thanks so much.

 

[Cassie16]

My logic for not judging those who feed live is this:

I have an indoor/outdoor cat. There are a great deal of people who are very opposed to this. There are people who consider it animal abuse, and feel that I'm putting my cat in danger by letting her roam outside.

I realize the risks of letting her out. There are an overabundance of them; however, I take these risks on a daily basis because it gives me a lot of utility. I like to think that keeping my cat indoors is crueler than exposing her to the volatility of the outdoors, but who knows if she really gives a . (excuse the vulgarity.)

I would be TREMENDOUSLY offended (and annoyed) if an advocate of keeping cats indoors accused me of being selfish, reckless, and indifferent to the safety and happiness of my animal. While I honestly think keeping a cat inside all of the time is cruel in itself, I would never tell someone that who practiced that.

So yes. My musings. I apologize for this being sloppily written- I'm on my phone.

 

[Cassie16]

Also I'm super sensitive so I would probably grab that mouse the second that I got him in the store and buy a cage with a little wheel and everything.

Me too! He'd be my best little friend for life. I kind of want a mouse, the frozen ones are adorable and I always thank them mentally for their sacrifice. Swear to god. Lol.