His first live one!

[diamondlil]

did i miss something on not to feed live? i just want someone who does feed live to see if he is doing ok or see if i should do something different to help with the choice i made.

The general consensus among keepers (here and elsewhere) is that feeding live is risky to the snake and cruel to the prey. If we do feed live it's usually in desperation to kick-start a feeding response in a snake that is otherwise in a cycle of non-feeding and losing weight.
Personallly I've had to feed live and stunned mice to non-feeding snakes and converted them to f/t as soon as I could. I dangle hot thawed rodents or chicks for my corns and get a full-out feeding strike and constriction from all of them so I certainly don't need to feed live to see how awesome that process is.
All these photos are my snakes busy 'killing' thawed mice

 

[crotalis40741]

did i miss something on not to feed live? i just want someone who does feed live to see if he is doing ok or see if i should do something different to help with the choice i made.

Most here know my stand on things such as this. I will not bash or defend. If one does not want to feed f/t that is on them. I have fed live and still do on occassion. But my version of live is a mostly incapacitated rodent.
Beth I am not trying to cause a battle on this. Where your snake is young a rodent can't do much damage other than parasites but as it gets older and needs larger prey items the risk of damage is way higher.
There are so many of these threads on here and they always end the same way. Usually not with a video though. As you will see if you search these threads they have ALL went south in a hurry.
My suggestion to the OP is to just let the thread die. This would be an uphill battle pushing a tank while dragging an aircraft carrier.

 

[7legion77]

I think the OP is joking. Clicked on a dead link.

If you want to see a beautiful kill in slow motion, check this one out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxR5mkGc9sU&oref=http://

The advantages of F/T vs frozen aren't as black and white as people on here make it seem. I admire their altruism, but feeding live doesn't make us evil/cruel/irresponsible in any way, it is more propaganda than sound, rational advice. I'm sure they'll tell you otherwise but don't let them under your skin.
If you want to feed live, makes sure the snake is REALLY hungry, so he gets a focused and frenzied lunge, such as in the video above. It doesn't hurt to "starve" your snake for 2 weeks (i.e. not to overfeed) he will also grow up slimmer and more fit. And don't feed a prey item item too large. If you don't like prekilling/handling and thawing dead mice, and prefer to watch the snake work for his food (instead of spoon feeding it like a baby) then live feeding is a perfectly acceptable option as long as you do it right. The "risk factor" that you read on the internetz is real, but very exaggerated.

 

[Soulwind]

And I think Baroness has pretty much covered it there.

 

[BloodyBaroness]

I'll just go ahead and toss this in here.

This ball python was given a live rat. The owner went to the store and had been gone around 2 hours...

This is what it looked like when he returned.

That animal had ALWAYS been an aggressive feeder, killed his rats with no problems. Did not think twice about giving it a live rat. The snake died from the injury.

Pre-kill the food.

 

[Cassie16]

Also, and I'm just putting this out there, but while most of us don't agree with feeding live, I don't see the harm in refraining from arguing and perhaps letting the small majority who does agree with it discuss it. Just because the majority of us share an opinion, I don't think that means that this is cornsnake.com law.

As I recall, he asked for tips and pointers, which leads me to believe he's looking for advice on how to ensure his live feeding proceeds safely and without a hitch. By arguing with him, we're kind of preventing him from obtaining sound advice (that someone might be willing to offer, if they weren't trying to avoid subjecting themselves to an angry debate)

It's like giving birth control to teenagers: you don't have to agree with teenagers having sex, but they're going to regardless of what you tell them. With that assumption, wouldn't it be safer to just let the discussion of feeding live in a safe manner proceed between advocates (no matter how few there are)? Those of us who disagree can read other threads, after all. At the end of the day, the matter of feeding live is an opinion, and no matter how many eloquently phrased arguments we have, we cannot claim that our thoughts are the right ones.

 

[crotalis40741]

I think the OP is joking. Clicked on a dead link.

If you want to see a beautiful kill in slow motion, check this one out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxR5mkGc9sU&oref=http://

The advantages of F/T vs frozen aren't as black and white as people on here make it seem. I admire their altruism, but feeding live doesn't make us evil/cruel/irresponsible in any way, it is more propaganda than sound, rational advice. I'm sure they'll tell you otherwise but don't let them under your skin.
If you want to feed live, makes sure the snake is REALLY hungry, so he gets a focused and frenzied lunge, such as in the video above. It doesn't hurt to "starve" your snake for 2 weeks (i.e. not to overfeed) he will also grow up slimmer and more fit. And don't feed a prey item item too large. If you don't like prekilling/handling and thawing dead mice, and prefer to watch the snake work for his food (instead of spoon feeding it like a baby) then live feeding is a perfectly acceptable option as long as you do it right. The "risk factor" that you read on the internetz is real, but very exaggerated.

Thank you for adding gas to an already hot fire. Why is it a must to constantly stir already heated emotions?

 

[starsevol]

Most here know my stand on things such as this. I will not bash or defend. If one does not want to feed f/t that is on them. I have fed live and still do on occassion. But my version of live is a mostly incapacitated rodent.
Beth I am not trying to cause a battle on this. Where your snake is young a rodent can't do much damage other than parasites but as it gets older and needs larger prey items the risk of damage is way higher.
There are so many of these threads on here and they always end the same way. Usually not with a video though. As you will see if you search these threads they have ALL went south in a hurry.
My suggestion to the OP is to just let the thread die. This would be an uphill battle pushing a tank while dragging an aircraft carrier.

Bob, you know I love you. (Dangit you'd BETTER know, LOL).
And I believe with all my heart that you are not unneccessasarily cruel.
That makes an enormous difference to me.

 

[crotalis40741]

Bob, you know I love you. (Dangit you'd BETTER know, LOL).
And I believe with all my heart that you are not unneccessasarily cruel.
That makes an enormous difference to me.

Thank you Beth.

 

[starsevol]

Also, and I'm just putting this out there, but while most of us don't agree with feeding live, I don't see the harm in refraining from arguing and perhaps letting the small majority who does agree with it discuss it. Just because the majority of us share an opinion, I don't think that means that this is cornsnake.com law.

As I recall, he asked for tips and pointers, which leads me to believe he's looking for advice on how to ensure his live feeding proceeds safely and without a hitch. By arguing with him, we're kind of preventing him from obtaining sound advice (that someone might be willing to offer, if they weren't trying to avoid subjecting themselves to an angry debate)

It's like giving birth control to teenagers: you don't have to agree with teenagers having sex, but they're going to regardless of what you tell them. With that assumption, wouldn't it be safer to just let the discussion of feeding live in a safe manner proceed between advocates (no matter how few there are)? Those of us who disagree can read other threads, after all. At the end of the day, the matter of feeding live is an opinion, and no matter how many eloquently phrased arguments we have, we cannot claim that our thoughts are the right ones.

I did not watch the video, but if his snake is as slow on the draw as has been suggested, then his animal stands a better than average chance of being really hurt by live food anyway. And if it ALREADY eats thawed with no problem, then this person is being truly selfish putting his snake at risk that way.

Thank you for adding gas to an already hot fire. Why is it a must to constantly stir already heated emotions?

Bob, that "keeper" (and I use the term loosely....) is nothing more than a trollish piece of work. Best to not respond to it and hope it rots....like I do.

 

[BloodyBaroness]

Thank you for adding gas to an already hot fire. Why is it a must to constantly stir already heated emotions?

Because 7legion77 is a troll, and openly admitted as such in the other thread.

Bickering and stirring the pot is not the answer here.

Responding to 7legion77 is feeding a troll. Toss him on ignore and we can get back to actually educating users and helping people with real questions.

 

[starsevol]

Thank you Beth.

You are welcome sir.
Glad you know you are not in my crosshairs.
(HUGS)

 

[Nanci]

Also, and I'm just putting this out there, but while most of us don't agree with feeding live, I don't see the harm in refraining from arguing and perhaps letting the small majority who does agree with it discuss it. Just because the majority of us share an opinion, I don't think that means that this is cornsnake.com law.

As I recall, he asked for tips and pointers, which leads me to believe he's looking for advice on how to ensure his live feeding proceeds safely and without a hitch. By arguing with him, we're kind of preventing him from obtaining sound advice (that someone might be willing to offer, if they weren't trying to avoid subjecting themselves to an angry debate)

Whenever a new person comes on here and says they "know the risks," it is highly doubtful that they do. IF they researched everything they need to know about when live feeding is and is not indicated, they wouldn't be on here asking for advice or looking for pointers in the first place.

You CANNOT ensure that live feeding has a safe outcome. You can do your best to limit the risk of injury to the snake. You can't ensure the snake will not be injured.

And you are still needlessly torturing a live animal, the prey.

And you are still exposing the snake to parasites.

Which leads us to the question, what kind of person knowingly accepts these risks for the animal who depends on him for his safety and well-being when it isn't absolutely necessary?

 

[Lyion]

If you really want to feed live we cannot stop you. Bashing may only make you more stubburn. I will give you all the advice I can if this is how you want to go. I advise you dangle frozen F/T or fresh kill over him until he gets used to grabbing it and puling it down. Always watch no matter how many times he has been fed. If he does not immediatly go for the mouse, remove him ASAP

 

[7legion77]

Also, and I'm just putting this out there, but while most of us don't agree with feeding live, I don't see the harm in refraining from arguing and perhaps letting the small majority who does agree with it discuss it. Just because the majority of us share an opinion, I don't think that means that this is cornsnake.com law.

As I recall, he asked for tips and pointers, which leads me to believe he's looking for advice on how to ensure his live feeding proceeds safely and without a hitch. By arguing with him, we're kind of preventing him from obtaining sound advice (that someone might be willing to offer, if they weren't trying to avoid subjecting themselves to an angry debate)

It's like giving birth control to teenagers: you don't have to agree with teenagers having sex, but they're going to regardless of what you tell them. With that assumption, wouldn't it be safer to just let the discussion of feeding live in a safe manner proceed between advocates (no matter how few there are)? Those of us who disagree can read other threads, after all. At the end of the day, the matter of feeding live is an opinion, and no matter how many eloquently phrased arguments we have, we cannot claim that our thoughts are the right ones.

Thank you for that, babe!

In response to BloodyBaronness, I am sometimes purposely trolling :cheers:.
Right now I'm being honest. I'm only trying to help these forums, so this debate isn't so heavily biased because that is healthier for the community here. Why make it so esoteric? What kind pet care internet forum ostracizes and drives away people who don't agree with an opinion? I have never seen this before. Cassie is the only one in this thread who's making any sense.

 

[starsevol]

Whenever a new person comes on here and says they "know the risks," it is highly doubtful that they do. IF they researched everything they need to know about when live feeding is and is not indicated, they wouldn't be on here asking for advice or looking for pointers in the first place.

You CANNOT ensure that live feeding has a safe outcome. You can do your best to limit the risk of injury to the snake. You can't ensure the snake will not be injured.

And you are still needlessly torturing a live animal, the prey.

And you are still exposing the snake to parasites.

Which leads us to the question, what kind of person knowingly accepts these risks for the animal who depends on him for his safety and well-being when it isn't absolutely necessary?

Apparently a troll called legion......

 

[crotalis40741]

When I walk on by, girls be looking like damn he fly
I pimp to the beat, walking down the street in my new la freak,
yeahThis is how I roll, animal print pants out control
It's Red Foo with the big afroAn like Bruce Leroy I got the glow, yo(Ahhh) Girl look at that body)I-I-I work out(Ahhh) Girl look at that body )I-I-I work outWhen I walk in the spot, (yea) this is what I see (okaay)Everybody stops and they staring at meI got a passion in my pants and I ain't afraid to show it, show it, show it, show it...I'm sexy and I know it
WIGGLE WIGGLE WIGGLE

 

[starsevol]

When I walk on by, girls be looking like damn he fly
I pimp to the beat, walking down the street in my new la freak,
yeahThis is how I roll, animal print pants out control
It's Red Foo with the big afroAn like Bruce Leroy I got the glow, yo(Ahhh) Girl look at that body)I-I-I work out(Ahhh) Girl look at that body )I-I-I work outWhen I walk in the spot, (yea) this is what I see (okaay)Everybody stops and they staring at meI got a passion in my pants and I ain't afraid to show it, show it, show it, show it...I'm sexy and I know it
WIGGLE WIGGLE WIGGLE

Just one small example of why I loves you!!

 

[Lyion]

XD bob! That was random and I'm hoping an attempt to calm people.

 

[Nanci]

In response to BloodyBaronness, I am sometimes purposely trolling :cheers:.

You've been told by the site owner, Rich Z, not to troll. You should probably be careful.