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I think I have made a final choice.

I edited, Robbie. Mea culpa. However, it was a FAST edit! I can't believe he read it and responded that quick! Maybe he is fast enough for one of these...

I joke, David. Radiata stink.
 
wade said:
OK smarty pants, who is going to take care of your snakes when you're dead. Didn't plan for that did ya. Well it's going to happen you know. And the snakes are your responsibility. You will be dragging your rotting corps from the grave everyday for eternity to poop scoop and change water bowls.
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By then either I will not die due to medial advances or I will have repti-bots!
 
elrojo said:
I edited, Robbie. Mea culpa. However, it was a FAST edit! I can't believe he read it and responded that quick! Maybe he is fast enough for one of these...

I joke, David. Radiata stink.
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I hate to say this but I am getting a radiata!
 
elrojo said:
I appreciate your take, Troy. And I just read and appreciate David's answers to your questions. He may become the Jacques Couteau of herps one day! My withhold comes from having taken many a bad bite and dodged my face away from strikes from the animal he is interested in.
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Trust me, I know exactly where you are coming from. Experience from having said animals is definitely worthy of mentioning. For whatever reasons David wants these snakes though, he's going to find out on his own by his own experiences. It's just like the whole ordeal surrounding the Stinking Goddess. Everybody warned him against purchasing one, he did anyways, and to date, his experience has been what sounds like the opposite of what everybody warned him against. Will this be the case with the Radiated's? Time will tell.

And yeah, the chimp line was *mostly* a joke, David.
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Actually, I think your mentioning of this was important. Many people have been killed by their "tame" pets. Anybody who claims that they can tame any animal is a fool in my book regardless of the ultimate outcome of that animals behavior whether suitable or not. The fact remains is that almost every animal has potential to do some type of harm. The deaths surrounding large snake owners is very real and I bet if you had asked any of these owners prior to their misfortunes whether or not they thought it would happen to them, they would probably have said no. But someone makes up the statistics and these things can and do sometimes happen.

I have kept this species. They are chaos to work with as they get size on them.
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This is why I asked David what was his goal in working with particular species. Is there something for him to gain by obtaining a potentially malevolent species? Perhaps what he wants to learn or prove is whether or not you can "tame" certain species by consistent handling and controlled environmental conditions. I of course presume this because this seems to be his common consensus with any species anybody mentions in regards to an unhandleable species.

Much like how a juvie chimp is sweet and typically becomes unpredictable with age.
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Whether this type of behavioral change affects reptiles is hard to say.

I have a Lavender Kingsnake that was very hyper and prone to biting for the first 12 years I've had her. When I first purchased her as a yearling, I thought that her aggressive behavior was part of her charm along with her beautiful colors. After that "charm" wore off after several months, she basically became a maintenance pet that I still cared for and took care of, only I did not handle her nor spend as much time with her as I did my other snakes merely because she was such a handful and I grew tired of trying not to get bit every time I did take her out. Only until the last few years has she calmed down and is now handleable, almost to the point of letting your guard down which I did once and she tried to take advantage of it. ;)

You made a point about the owner "making the snake." In truth, the owner doesn't make the snake, nor dog, though the latter is much closer to fact.
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This is a very wise statement. While animals can and do adapt to any environmental changes, when given the chance they will almost always revert back to their primal tendencies. One thing to consider is how basic and primitive the reptilian brain structure is. These animals are not like animals of a higher intelligence with a capacity to learn or maybe understand what is going on. While some lizards and turtles/toroises seem to be more intelligent than other forms of reptiles, primarily snakes, reptiles in general are still reactionary primitive animals at best.

My radiated rat hatchlings were wiry and active, not unlike most Asian rats. But not only did they not outgrow it with size, it worsened.
When you wanted a stinking goddess (carinata), I told you the ones I had "baby-sat" were a bit problematic, and they weren't a species I'd recommend for a young person. My feelings on the radiata are 100 times worse. They are spawn of Satan snakes, as my friend Clay Davenport put it. They mash really hard when they bite. They are big, long snakes. They are faster than anything you can imagine. Terrible, terrible "pets," IMO.
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Again, this was your experience as well as the others that have owned these types of snakes. Perhaps it will be David's experience as well. So I guess the big question is, what will David's long term course of action be if the Radiateds he acquires prove to be equally aggressive as the ones you were exposed to?

As I currently own 6 Mandarin Rats and can appreciate lightening fast aggressive snakes that show no hesitation to coil and strike, I would not even want to come close to owning something that sounds to be even more of a headache to care for as the Radiateds seem to be. By far, my Mandarins sound easy compared to the stories you guys are telling of Radiateds.

I do find it interesting though that David says he is interested in possible venom research of colubrids and yet has changed his mind about Western Hognose snakes which would have been, in my opinion, a much easier and handleable snake that would also have fit within his plans of venom research considering there is so much contradicting information regarding this species. But that's just my thought on the matter. :)
 
I have not given up on Hoggies. I think heralds are more interesting as far as venom goes. I will get my hoggies...someday!
 
Do whatever you wish but why does it have to drag on over 5 pages?

David- you left a bad impression with many keepers here. You will be facing criticism which is quite understandable if taking into consideration your past behavior.

You expect people to say nothing now because you -claim- you're trying harder now and have a plan?
Strewn into this said "transformation" are antagonizing remarks made by yourself, delusions of grandeur and a fondness for arguing if you should bring in dangerous huge snakes like Blood Pythons.

You say you're changed? fine
You want to bring a blood python? Bring an elephant for all I care.

But honestly, do you like the attention that much that you are willing to span a "flame war" over so many pages?
You don't have to prove to anyone that you're a changed man... and I can tell at least from a personal point of view that I would have taken you a deal more seriously had you been less concerned with talking and more concerned with -acting- as the person you now claim to be.
 
snakemaster24 said:
I hate to say this but I am getting a radiata!
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Enjoy them. Get a long hook and a long sleeved glove. In two years, they'll be pushing five feet. By that time, you might consider a fencing mask, mine really seemed fond of facial strikes. Anyone considering a mamba should first have to keep one of these for a year. They are a handful. I dreaded feeding, cleaning, everything that involved opening their cage, hence my getting rid of them and never breeding. But hey, maybe yours will be different. I'll sit back and follow this thread over the next three years!
 
It will be good to make the comparison between your experience, with I presume W/C
and what I presume are possibly C/B.
Robbie has a pair and now David is getting one, it will be good to follow both their experiences with this type of snake....
BTW..... Thai Cobra boxers train as kids with the Radiated.....
It's worth having a look at some videos, to see a snake flying isn't something you see everyday.
 
snakewispera snr said:
It will be good to make the comparison between your experience, with I presume W/C
and what I presume are possibly C/B.
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I bought them as c/b from a show as yearlings. I guess there's a chance they were wild caught, but I don't think so. At any rate, I didn't handle them as often as David plans to, and only did when absolutely necessary as they grew large and evil.


Edit: I also suppose there is a chance there are more docile strains being produced. If anyone has selectively bred for that, he may have a whole different animal on his hands. I personally wouldn't bet on it, and I can't make a species description from three animals. Maybe mine and Clay's were on the extreme side, who knows...
 
I guess I HAVE to ask. Are all of these guys THAT bad? There are a couple just down the road from me that seem to be as tame as can be. No problems whatsoever. I've been tempted by them for a while too... but have resisted.

I find it interesting that they are used by "Thai Cobra Boxers".

Anyway...
 
You'll always find calm specimens to snakes that are generally considered aggressive... there can never be such a general statement that will apply to every single snake of the species.
Generally though, I know them as being feisty as heck
 
wade said:
Hey, I have had snakes since Christ was a corporal and I have at times had hundreds. I can't answer any of your questions. What does that mean?
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That means you must pack up all your snakes immediately and send them to David as at least he was able to answer the questions :laugh::laugh::laugh: J/K of course :)
 
So I have a question..which is a little off topic...but at the same time..on topic..The whole theory on selective breeding based on temperment (for example taking a male RR that has an unusually good disposition and a female that also isn't that bad and breeding them in hopes that their offspring have the same mental state as them)...Has this actually been proven? To me this really doesn't sound like something that science can definitely say happens..I highly doubt that a mental state can be passed down to offspring..unless..of course the mental state is something genetically or atomically (is this even a word?? lol) occuring within the brain..then I guess that would be passable to the next generation..but I guess my main question is...can anyone back this up?
 
Maize411 said:
I highly doubt that a mental state can be passed down to offspring..unless..of course the mental state is something genetically or atomically (is this even a word?? lol) occuring within the brain..then I guess that would be passable to the next generation..but I guess my main question is...can anyone back this up?
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It is genetic and it is inheritable. Not of all it, but some of it. Dogs have been bred for their specific behaviors and temperaments for generations. If none of this was inheritable, dogs would still act like wolves, and we would have to begin taming them as such from the moment they were born.

Changes in motivations, instincts, fear levels, aggression levels, etc are all very possible through selective breeding. Like I said, if this wasn't true, we wouldn't even have domestic animals. Dogs would still act like wolves, and wouldn't be able to herd with us, hunt with us, guard with us, or be our pets. They'd just be funny-looking wolves.
 
I guess that's true..I knew it worked in dogs and even works within people..but with reptiles..I don't know..for some reason I just thought that rule didn't really apply..to me a snake is a snake and one has just as much of a risk of biting you as any other snake..I don't know why I thought this was different in the reptile world.but oh well..I learned something new today :)
 
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