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Influencing snake size via feeding schedule

I can perfectly understand why you would prefer a smaller snake, and the OP DID state 'without harm or stress'

I love my little corn to bits but if he/she maxed out at 3 foot I'd be happier than if it reachers 6!!! :D

On saying that, if it reaches six I'll deal with it.
 
I have no problem with you being upset with what I said. I still don't like that anyone would even want to consider stunting the growth of an animal, even without intending to harm it.

When you don't provide all the information about your level of knowledge in the beginning, you come across like someone who knows nothing and is in danger of harming their snake through inexperience. I didn't know who you purchased your snake from, nor that you had read any kind of information. I still have worries, given the statements made by that person. I do know how some BP breeders get their females up to breeding size in a hurry and it's not in a healthy manner. It's by chain feeding several prey items in one feeding. They use their females to get a few good clutches without any care for the welfare of their snakes then move on to the next generation of females that are up to breeding size. It does happen.

My opinion doesn't matter, I know. But I felt I needed to say it.
 
Well, I just read a book, about snakes, that said, it was perfectly OK to keep several snakes, indeed, several different SPECIES!! in the same tank as long as you are careful about which snakes you chose!

It kind of failed to then say which you should chose :D

The majority on the forum would disagree I think.

My point is there is a lot of fairly poor information out there, and for someone (I understand) new to it, pretty easy to read something not quite correct and think it sounds cool.
 
dionythicus said:
I have no problem with you being upset with what I said. I still don't like that anyone would even want to consider stunting the growth of an animal, even without intending to harm it.

When you don't provide all the information about your level of knowledge in the beginning, you come across like someone who knows nothing and is in danger of harming their snake through inexperience. I didn't know who you purchased your snake from, nor that you had read any kind of information. I still have worries, given the statements made by that person. I do know how some BP breeders get their females up to breeding size in a hurry and it's not in a healthy manner. It's by chain feeding several prey items in one feeding. They use their females to get a few good clutches without any care for the welfare of their snakes then move on to the next generation of females that are up to breeding size. It does happen.

My opinion doesn't matter, I know. But I felt I needed to say it.
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So instead of educating a newbie you're going to bash them? Seriously? AS far as Ball Pythons go, a breeder NEVER wastes an adult female. At least not an intelligent one. Also, some breeders may feed multiple prey items at a single feeding. I know that most, feed more frequently and feed slightly larger prey items.
 
Um, in my book feeding up a female to breed at 16 months is never going to be healthy...ever. She may indeed get large enough to lay eggs, but I think you'll end up seriously shortening her lifespan. As far as breeding in the wild at that age...most likely not. There's no way to tell of course unless someone tags several babies and follows them throughout their lives to see when in fact they do breed. I can tell you that feeding very conservatively (babies every 10 days adults every 3 weeks) yields much slower growth but more healthy IMO....as well as my vet's opinion. None of my females of any species were ready to breed at 3 (barring my original cornsnakes that I fed weekly and were large-being locality animals-at 3). My green tree pythons were no where near large enough to breed at 3...they were first bred at 5 years of age. My corns that I bought later on didn't breed until they were 4 years old. I suspect in the wild that with the marginal availability of food and periods of brumation (at least in this state) the snakes are lucky to take 4 meals before hibernating and another few meals after they come out. They would certainly grow much, much slower and therefore mature out at a much older age.
 
Wait, you feed your babies every 10 days? That sounds dangerous to me. 10 days is pushing past maintenance feeding in my book....
 
We recently got a Hog Island Boa baby from someone online, who btw had great BOI, he feed his babies every two weeks. I think that is way too much time between feedings personally, but I am not a breeder. We have changed his feeding to every 7 days and switched him to rats, per a friend of mine from this site. He has fatten up a lot but not too much.

I know that a lot of Ball Python breeders do what others call power feeding to get them to breeding weight, but I have also read and was told by our vet that it shortens their life span. Not sure by how much, I didnt ask that question.

I have taken in a few corns that have been feed poorly. Piglet is now on his way, but still smaller than most yearling corns at 78g. Winchester is 7-8 months old and only now getting to 20g. I think messing with feeding schedules or prey size to keep the snake smaller or more managable is abuse. People dont recommend big chain stores and one reason is because that feed less to keep em smaller.

Just my two cents!
 
Carinata said:
Wait, you feed your babies every 10 days? That sounds dangerous to me. 10 days is pushing past maintenance feeding in my book....
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Hardly. They are in good weight and growing...just not speed growing. All are quite active, good feeders and doing quite well.
Yup, this looks like a horribly underfed skinny baby all right!
3m005.jpg

3m004.jpg
 
I don't think David feeds them like that per sa because he doesn't breed corn snakes he just heard that so take it for what it is. Which I don't agree with either Meg. I do tend follow the grow them slow and strong theory.
But the OP sounds like he wanted a certain size snake ... me thinks
 
All I'm saying is going back to the Doc Walker thread, I believe he was feeding every 7-10 days as well. We can all sit here and argue over what works best but we cannot mimic nature. Each to his own I guess.....
 
Lennycorn said:
I don't think David feeds them like that per sa because he doesn't breed corn snakes he just heard that so take it for what it is. Which I don't agree with either Meg. I do tend follow the grow them slow and strong theory.
But the OP sounds like he wanted a certain size snake ... me thinks
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Actually Lenny, I keep corns and have breeding projects in the works. I just focus more on my AFTs. I didn't just hear that either, I have spoken with several reputable breeders who use these methods and several local breeders who use them as well. The OP just got his first snake, we all asked questions at that point. Don't bash him for it, educate and encourage new keepers.
 
Carinata, it has come from a vet that it is possible he wasnt feeding them at all! Feeding 7-10 days apart would not cause emanicpated animals.
 
beautifullywild77 said:
Carinata, it has come from a vet that it is possible he wasnt feeding them at all! Feeding 7-10 days apart would not cause emanicpated animals.
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It came from a vet, that's great. I have had certified reptile vets tell me co-habbing was OK? Does that mean we should do it? If that kind of feeding regimen is OK for hatchling Corns, please tell that to the people who lost baby Corns who were on that regimen from Doc Walker.......
 
Maybe it works for them but still doesn't make it right.

And I'm sooo sorry for bashing the OP. Didn't know that was bashing.
 
Lennycorn said:
Maybe it works for them but still doesn't make it right.

And I'm sooo sorry for bashing the OP. Didn't know that was bashing.
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OK. That's your opinion, and I bet if you saw the snakes you wouldn't be saying much at all.

The OP asked a serious question, which all the people bashing him are actually doing.
 
David I think you might need to take a step back and breath. Dionythicus was the only one that was the only one that I saw that's comment sounded nasty IMO and apologized for it.

beautifullywild77 said:
Carinata, it has come from a vet that it is possible he wasnt feeding them at all! Feeding 7-10 days apart would not cause emanicpated animals.
Click to expand...

And she was just pointing out that according to a vet Doc is lying. That it is much more possible that the snakes were not fed at all. Doc stated that he offered food every 7-10 days. If they refused or went into blue they didn't eat, so he really was going longer than 7 -10 days. I feed ever 7 days like clock work and most of my babies grow faster than many others.
 
Carinata, I have a very, very, very dear friend of mine that lost more than a few snakes from doc. I was just pointing out excately what cmalchow just said above ^. The hatchling that died was so emancipated that it is likely he hadnt been feed his entire life.
 
David, I have had non-feeders that went 6 weeks without ever having a meal who were not in as bad a shape as Doc's snakes. You cannot tell me that was from a 7-10 day feeding schedule! Emaciation does not come from a 7 day feed schedule. My babies are all growing well... and fed every 7 days. In fact, they're growing like weeds.
 
Sorry, got a little ahead of myself there. Hadn't slept in nearly 2 days. Anyway, 16 months is an extreme example, 18-24 months is more realistic. It can be done and it can be done safely and I'm some of the leaders of our industry don't wait 3 years to breed their Corns. People breed male Ball Pythons (males) at 12 weeks old and get big viable clutches. As for feeding babies, I personally feel like 7 days is pushing it, 10 days is going to stunt their growth in an unhealthy way. Some may have done it with success, but to me it's too long between feedings.
 
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