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is this normal...???

pcar said:
I don't personally own the book. I have read it and I thought that I remembered reading about this issue. :shrugs:
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No offense, but thats exactly what I'm talking about. In a previous post, you said it was in "Whats Wrong With My Herp?" Spirit saw that and used that as proof of documentation based on your post. In reality, it is not mentioned in the book at all that I can find, and I've read it cover to cover twice since this thread started. So Pcar posted a "fact" that he "might of, could of, possibly" read somewhere, when in fact he's not sure himself. Spirit read his post and jumped to the conclusion that it was fact, and was documented, even though she never checked the reference herself. She trusted Pcar that he had checked it, when he hadn't.

Just some food for thought.

Mike

Spirit: I love being a brat ;)
 
here you go...I have just searching on the web and found a couple of things...below is from Melissa Kaplan's page:

Particulate substrates, even when made from "natural" or "biodegradable" products such as plant fibers, should not be used for any lizard who smells with its tongue. Particles become stuck to the tongue and are swallowed. Over time, they may build up in the gut causing a serious, even fatal, impaction.
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Again, this is saying that this CAN be fatal...another opinion. The website: http://www.anapsid.org/substrates2.html.

on another of her pages, she talks about constipation:
Constipation may occur for one of several reasons, including:

the reptile is dehydrated;

the reptile is impacted with fur, chitin, or particulate substrate, including commercial"lizard" and "reptile" substrates, or other foreign material or object;

the enclosure is too cool;

the basking temperatures needed are not being provided;

the reptile is suffering from a severe parasite infection;

the reptile is partially paralyzed from an injury or nutritional disorder.


As with all animals, ridding the body of wastes is essential for overall health. If wastes, either urates or feces, are lodged in the body, systemic infections and organ failure will eventually occur.

Being constipated is also uncomfortable, if not actually painful, for the reptile. This can lead to behavioral abnormalities, such as a reptile who is usually comfortable being handled becomes thrashy and irritable when handled, or a formerly active reptile becomes sluggish.

If the reason for the constipation cannot be determined, the reptile must be seen by a reptile vet for examination and, if necessary, x-rays to determine if there is an object lodged anywhere in the gut.

While you are searching for the reason for the constipation, you must assist the reptile to defecate. Bathe him in warmish water in the bath tub. After letting him soak for 10-15 minutes, begin to gently massage his belly, stroking from sternum to vent, for 5-10 minutes, rewarming the water as needed. This will usually get them to poop within 24 hours. If the reptile doesn't defecate by then, get it to a reptile vet ASAP.

Reptiles, especially lizards who are partially paralyzed due to metabolic bone disease, will have to be bathed and massaged daily to make sure they are able to void all their wastes.

Do not attempt to administer laxatives or enemas yourself. Many products may be fatal, and reptiles may take a significantly lower dose than a mammal or bird. This should only be done in consultation with your reptile veterinarian.
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This page is here: http://www.anapsid.org/constipation.html


This page http://www.anapsid.org/substrates.html talks more about substrates, especially those that can be ingested and not ingested.
 
Melissa Kaplan...yeah she knows EVERYTHING about reptiles. :rolleyes:

Since I already added my 2 cents in the other thread, I really don't have anyting to add except, when new keepers come here asking questions, I just wish that people who answer, with their opinions or what works for them would say just that. Everyone here loves their reptiles, and all of us do what works for us, and what we think is best. It is not "written in stone" that you should not feed your snakes in their vivs, that is a personal preference, and should be stated as such. :)
 
tai_pan1 said:
No offense, but thats exactly what I'm talking about. In a previous post, you said it was in "Whats Wrong With My Herp?" Spirit saw that and used that as proof of documentation based on your post. In reality, it is not mentioned in the book at all that I can find, and I've read it cover to cover twice since this thread started. So Pcar posted a "fact" that he "might of, could of, possibly" read somewhere, when in fact he's not sure himself. Spirit read his post and jumped to the conclusion that it was fact, and was documented, even though she never checked the reference herself. She trusted Pcar that he had checked it, when he hadn't.

Just some food for thought.

Mike

Spirit: I love being a brat ;)
Click to expand...

HEY! Leave me out of this! :laugh:

It's not pcar I trusted though, and it's certainly not that book. If only ONE person said this to me, I'd probably not listen. Book or not. You just asked for documentation, so I trustred Paul that the book does indeed talk about substrate impaction leading to death.

There are even warnings on some labels. One persons "opinion" isn't proof enough that this may be a danger... It's a numbers game, Mike. :)
 
ROFLOL! I have really enjoyed this thread, but I suppose it is time to let it die. Just for the record, I feed my juveniles and neonates in a seperate container......... just in case. :)

Mike
 
It's fine hurley, i only really deal with snakes and was only looking from that point of view, it crossed my mind about other reptiles till it come up.

God i love a good debate, and this one is so hot it burns to watch it. I've had my doller's worth so i'll sit back and enjoy the rest of the thread now.
 
I think this thread is finished up for the most part.

I still have yet to recieve an email from either of the vet's I contacted. When and if I do, I will certainly post their comments as well.

Quigs
 
hi

I have had had a corn snake for about 2 months now and everything is going well - - reading this post everyone is saying about the dangers of feeding on substrate - but no one says really what to do if you see your snake actually ingesting a bit -

not that mine has i feed him in a separate box -

but say if he ingested a small bit of woodchip - would it pass through - i mean i can see how big a snakes mouth opens - but does anyone know how big its other end opens ? - and how long it would take from eating a mouse with a bit of substrate on it to it coming out the other end - (ie time of travel ? ) and how would you know if it has done any harm ?

instead of debating your life away about why not to feed on substrate if someone would give some advice what to do if your snake has ingested a bit.

would a vet have to operate to remove the bit ? - or let it go naturally ? i would love to hear the answers for this.
 
oh - maybe i missed the advice on what to do - but if i had please dont rip into me like most people on forums tend to rip into noobs lol
 
snakeintheattic said:
and ?

if its so old why is it still up ?

p.s im glad you get some enjoyment from my post- you must lead a sheltered life .....
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Threads on this site don't get 'retired' or closed unless something offensive occurs therein.

Rather than digging up an old thread, which a lot of old times might recognize and thus ignore, you're probably better off by starting your own thread.
 
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