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Military. *your Thoughts*

My nephew was a "nuke tech electrician" - I think, more-or-less. He worked for a couple of years on subs out of St. Mary's, Ga. He liked the actual work, and he said that he was very good at it. And they did tell him what to expect. But for a young guy just out of high school, I think the reality of living on a sub was different than what he imagined, no matter how many descriptions were given to him. I think that people that age can find it hard to imagine how they will truly feel about a situation until they actually experience it.

Now he is out of the Navy, and going to school for his engineering degree. So the sub training is really coming in handy. He has all of the technical classes from the military schools - he just needs to fill in all of the English, history, and assorted "stuff" you need for any degree. And the GI Bill is a great help, too. So, even though he didn't enjoy his time on the sub, I think he will be happy he did it, once he gets his degree and a good job.

So keep in mind that your ultimate goal is a good civilian job, unless you plan to make a career in the Service.
 
Like Kathy's nephew, I was a Nuclear Electrician in the Navy. Didn't particularly enjoy it, but the training and benefits are really helping me out now that I'm a civilian. Basically, pick something that will prepare you well for the real world. Lots of jobs in the military are "cool", but most of those don't directly translate into anything in the civilian sector.
 
I havent been in the military and never will be because of health. But I have dated men who were. And I agree on the points of the recruiters. My ex spoke to a recruiter, they promised him all sorts of things, he signed, went to basic, passed, and got his assignment. This is where the promise fell through, they told him he would go to Iraq like he wanted, he got sent to Alaska instead.
As for the other stuff, it does change you. How can someone go to war and not come back changed? It is good that you are thinking ahead though and that your family supports you because you will need that support structure.
 
Yeah, it's a pretty extreme change of life. I was fresh out of high school and went off to live underwater in a steel tube driving around the oceans! Crazy idea, but I enjoyed it.

The SEALs are all trained in their rate (job) before SEAL training. I think the enlisted guys had to be E-5s. In the Navy that's a second-class petty officer, you've had several schools for your rate and maybe even some specialty schools by then. Even if you don't make it as a SEAL you'll still work in your rate.
Most of the rates in the Navy have some "translation" in civilian life. I always wondered about our Torpedoman's Mate rating, but even that has many. They get hydraulics training, pneumatics and air systems, the guys that work on the weapons themselves have heavy electronics training.

Edit:
I forgot this, Thanks Outcast, bkelm, Tom, all you others.
And Tom, Marines are in the Navy, we just don't say that out loud very much ;)
 
I was in the Air Force and can tell you that Navy SEALS drop out of Air Force Pararescue training. Each branch has their gung-ho unit, but everyone gets taught S.E.R.E. by the Air Force. The upside to the Navy is rank can be made quicker. AF takes time in service but the quality of life is much more pleasant. Visit any branches facilities and compare, the chair force (prior military will get that joke) wins that challenge. If you have your heart set on SEAL training, go for it. Just remember, rank gets paid the same in any of the 5 services. And PLEASE make sure the career you pick can translate to the civilian sector. I worked with bombs and missiles for my job, and let me tell you, ther isn't a demand for that in the civilian sector. So choose wisely, young buck, and enjoy the comraderie that is our Armed Forces!
 
BrandNew said:
Oh ok thanks all. I have spoken to my mom about all this. I plan on furthering my education. Joining the Naval Acadmey. Becoming an Officer of the Navy SEALs. or thats atleast my plan lol thanks guy!
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Just a note you don't join the Naval Academy, you must be accepted and it is also difficult.
 
I worked with bombs and missiles for my job, and let me tell you, there isn't a demand for that in the civilian sector.

Yes, my friend's hubby did some sort of missile related job in the Service. He always regretted it - said it didn't help him AT ALL in civilian life, and he didn't enjoy his time in the military a lot, either. He TRULY wished he would have found some other job training during that time.


My brother went through Ranger training in the Army. He had already served 6 years as a drill sergeant, got out, got his degree, and went back as an officer. So he was about 10 years older than the "kids" going through Ranger school with him. He said it was really difficult, but the thing that washed him out was that they made everyone stay awake for several days - no sleep! He thought maybe he could have handled it 8 or 10 years earlier, but not at the age he tried it. He never did make it through Ranger school. BUT - he did get in more than 20 years of military service before retiring as the 2nd guy in charge of the military police in S. Korea (I think it is called Deputy Provost Marshall, but not sure).

So go for what you want; just have backup plans in case it doesn't turn out exactly according to your first plan. It may turn out even better - who knows?
 
alan said:
I was in the Navy for eight years and I only knew of two men in the submarine service who tried out for SEAL training and didn't get in.
In the US Submarine Service you go through Sub School. Sub School is taught on a sub base, by other submariners. In the schools there you are not only taught a lot about submarines, but also about submarine life. You hear all of the stories, all about the hours, the work, the fun, the danger, the long deployments, being out of touch with the world, everything. By the time you get to a boat you are well aware of everything that you are getting yourself into. That's the way it works best, no surprises on submarines.
Many relationships, marriages and otherwise, fail in the submarine community. It works for some, and I don't know statistics, but I don't recommend mixing the two. No argument there.
Rising in the ranks in submarines is only done if the candidate is fully qualified. The line officers have it the toughest, they go through a rotation. In their submarine career they will be the officer for each division; nav officer, weapons officer, communications officer, engineer, etc. Then they must serve as executive officer on a boat, with the ultimate goal being a command of their own. No political passes, no radioed (phoned in) qualifications.
The crew on a submarine is tight, the whole crew. Of course officers are distinguished by rank and training and given all the respect their position merits, but are every bit a friend and brother just like the rest of the crew. Even in home port officers attend parties at crew members houses, get togethers usually are for the whole crew. If one of the Os showed up unannounced it would be a good thing, another crew member present at the party. Again, that's the way that it works.
You can't have hating at sea on a submarine, there's nowhere to get away and everyone MUST work together when you're hundreds of feet under the water punching holes in the oceans.
That constantly learning about the equipment and giving your life to the equipment and the Navy? That's what you DO, that's your JOB, that's what you volunteered for when you went subs, and it is very apparent that's the way it will be before you get to a boat.
If a sailor in the US Submarine Service hates being there they're not stuck, they can get out. Submarines in the US Navy are totally voluntary. You don't want someone going to sea if they don't want to be there and be part of the crew, really don't.
I got out in 86. I can see some things changing, but a submarine crew must operate as a tight team all of the time, no slack. Like I said, you don't want surprises on submarines.
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Unfortunately then it has change by A LOT. There are still plenty of guys on the boats that are extremely experienced, love the job they do and focus on getting the job done. I see you say that you were in the navy, but were you actually on subs?
It is correct that they go through prototype & Nuc Power School which provides insight on the equipment that they will be working with but not at all what life is really going to be like day in an day out down under the ocean for months on end. I have heard from plenty of young guys who did not realize all that this entailed or what the life was actually like, until they had their first tour.
Working together on the boats is necessary for organization but like any other place where you would have multiple human beings shoved together for substantial lengths of time, there is plenty of teasing and taunting, the 'in crowd' and the 'not so in crowd'- on which I must emphasize, if you are not part of the 'in crowd' then your life is made a hell to live in.
You are also correct that- to gain the ranks you have to go through and pass tests and be fully qualified- but don't forget that there are MULTIPLE sailors who 'pass the test' and are 'fully qualified'. The political players are just the ones chosen by the BOARD when they apply for an officer position, especially chief. I have witnessed this first hand, since my husband of 6 years (currently going thru a separation) had been in the military for 16 years (mostly on subs) and had been passed up as chief on one of his boats for a young man who had only been in the minimum required time of 6 years to be chief because he 'knew someone on the board'. And I've been to many many of those parties you point out, and no, non of the officers go unless it is important (i.e. a wedding or one of the sailors is celebrating something that is a large step in their life, etc)- the blue shirts do not want the khakis to be there and the khakis only go to make a 'good political appearance'. I am not saying that this is ONLY the case but I am saying that this is what I have witnessed first hand for many years.
 
Yes, I was on board SSN 689,theUSS Baton Rouge. It was a nuclear-powered fast-attack boat. After that tour I worked on a submarine tender in the repair department, still working on the boats.
I hope the submarine service isn't totally what your perception of it is, if it is I fear for the crews. The people I know and the things I read on our boards say otherwise, but I'm not there any more. We haven't lost a boat for a long time and there's a reason for that. It's not just because of the boats, it's the crews and the people around them like you that help maintain either the boat or the crew. (sorry, I don't know what you do. Whatever it is, thanks!)
Anyone in the Navy has heard of unfairness in the Chief selection boards (which are the only kind of "selection" for rank in the enlisted world), it's not right, sometimes it changes careers. I don't know how it can happen. When the CPO selection board convenes in DC It's supposed to be non-biased. I think the last part doesn't even use names, but I'm sure that there's a way around that. That's not specific to submarines, that's navywide, and it also has nothing to do with officers. CPO is an enlisted rank. Petty officers have the word "officer" in their title, but if you call a Chief "sir" or salute them in passing you might get an earfull of salty language!
I'll have to ask around about the enlisted/officer attitude.
One of the cool things about being in a small, tight-knit command like a submarine was that there wasn't such a large division between the officers and the rest of the crew and comraderie was real high. It would be a little sad if that's changed. I don't think it would hurt operations, but it would be a loss for the service and the crews.
The teasing and stuff is true, but shouldn't be mean, or it wasn't when I was there. It's so that you become part of the crew, really. It's like open season on you until you get your dolphins! Everyone gets it, no exceptions. If someone takes it badly and can't get along with people it's kind of a signal, so it's good to find out. These are your shipmates, helping to keep themselves and you alive, you want to know them. They didn't make it easy to get qualified, but they would always help if they could. That same first class, qualified on the boat Torpedoman's Mate that kicked your "non-qual butt" off of the mess decks during the movie will also sit down in the torpedo room with you and help you understand how everything works to get a sig on your ship's quals. And, truthfully, sometimes on long submerged transits there's not a lot to do, no changes. Messing with your shipmates is a fun distraction ;) I've even seen people do it to the Captain; very, very carefully and respectfully.
No, it isn't true that everyone goes to prototype and nuke school. The only submariners who go to nuke school and the submarine nuclear reactor prototype plants are the "nukes" themselves (engineering, reactor/propulsion plant specific rates) and all of the line officers. The "forward end" bubbleheads don't go to nuke school. The supply corps officers aren't eligible for command so they don't go through the division officer rotation, but I think they still go to the O's Sub School, not sure on that.
Almost everyone DOES go to submarine school, nukes included, I have heard of very few exceptions. In Basic Enlisted Submarine School we learned everything about submarine construction, operation, and living on board. No one who goes through Sub School can be surprised by what they are being asked to do. It may be hard to get used to, but it's not unexpected.

Sorry Ryan, you get me talking about submarines and I get wordy. I just used up my lunchtime!
Tara! This is great that there's another person here from the submarine community. I want to know what you do? What was/is your husband's rate? Did he make chief? You may know this from working around the crews, but a chief on board a submarine is kind of a special thing, most of them get more respect than some of the officers. They've been there, done that, for a while. Even as an E-6 your husband was a highly-trained man, probably qualified to do many, many things you never even heard about.
And I guess you know that most submariners are a little twisted...
 
Comraderie is a big thing in EOD also. Alot of what was said about being kicked out of a room because you don't qualify for something and being sat down and taught it so you can get signed off on it happens in EOD alot... It happened to me more than once. But I know everything I went through in the service has taught me that I can always ask my EOD brothers for help and since I earned my "crab" they will do what they can to assist me.

My little brother is out in the Pacific somewhere right now on a Sub. I'm not sure what his rate is but I know his primary job is working on the missiles. At least that is what he leads me to believe...lol
 
alan said:
Yes, I was on board SSN 689,theUSS Baton Rouge. It was a nuclear-powered fast-attack boat. After that tour I worked on a submarine tender in the repair department, still working on the boats.
I hope the submarine service isn't totally what your perception of it is, if it is I fear for the crews. The people I know and the things I read on our boards say otherwise, but I'm not there any more. We haven't lost a boat for a long time and there's a reason for that. It's not just because of the boats, it's the crews and the people around them like you that help maintain either the boat or the crew. (sorry, I don't know what you do. Whatever it is, thanks!)
Anyone in the Navy has heard of unfairness in the Chief selection boards (which are the only kind of "selection" for rank in the enlisted world), it's not right, sometimes it changes careers. I don't know how it can happen. When the CPO selection board convenes in DC It's supposed to be non-biased. I think the last part doesn't even use names, but I'm sure that there's a way around that. That's not specific to submarines, that's navywide, and it also has nothing to do with officers. CPO is an enlisted rank. Petty officers have the word "officer" in their title, but if you call a Chief "sir" or salute them in passing you might get an earfull of salty language!
I'll have to ask around about the enlisted/officer attitude.
One of the cool things about being in a small, tight-knit command like a submarine was that there wasn't such a large division between the officers and the rest of the crew and comraderie was real high. It would be a little sad if that's changed. I don't think it would hurt operations, but it would be a loss for the service and the crews.
The teasing and stuff is true, but shouldn't be mean, or it wasn't when I was there. It's so that you become part of the crew, really. It's like open season on you until you get your dolphins! Everyone gets it, no exceptions. If someone takes it badly and can't get along with people it's kind of a signal, so it's good to find out. These are your shipmates, helping to keep themselves and you alive, you want to know them. They didn't make it easy to get qualified, but they would always help if they could. That same first class, qualified on the boat Torpedoman's Mate that kicked your "non-qual butt" off of the mess decks during the movie will also sit down in the torpedo room with you and help you understand how everything works to get a sig on your ship's quals. And, truthfully, sometimes on long submerged transits there's not a lot to do, no changes. Messing with your shipmates is a fun distraction ;) I've even seen people do it to the Captain; very, very carefully and respectfully.
No, it isn't true that everyone goes to prototype and nuke school. The only submariners who go to nuke school and the submarine nuclear reactor prototype plants are the "nukes" themselves (engineering, reactor/propulsion plant specific rates) and all of the line officers. The "forward end" bubbleheads don't go to nuke school. The supply corps officers aren't eligible for command so they don't go through the division officer rotation, but I think they still go to the O's Sub School, not sure on that.
Almost everyone DOES go to submarine school, nukes included, I have heard of very few exceptions. In Basic Enlisted Submarine School we learned everything about submarine construction, operation, and living on board. No one who goes through Sub School can be surprised by what they are being asked to do. It may be hard to get used to, but it's not unexpected.

Sorry Ryan, you get me talking about submarines and I get wordy. I just used up my lunchtime!
Tara! This is great that there's another person here from the submarine community. I want to know what you do? What was/is your husband's rate? Did he make chief? You may know this from working around the crews, but a chief on board a submarine is kind of a special thing, most of them get more respect than some of the officers. They've been there, done that, for a while. Even as an E-6 your husband was a highly-trained man, probably qualified to do many, many things you never even heard about.
And I guess you know that most submariners are a little twisted...
Click to expand...

Hey, thanks for the insight you provided from your time in the Navy, I appreciate it. And thanks for serving in our military, I always will take my hat off to anyone who servers and has served- putting your life on the line so that I may have the freedom I have today.
I very rarely work with fast attacks (although, I met my husband on a fast attack- and even got married ON that boat, if you can believe it- SSN 713 Houston), and I do tend to associated everything with nuclear- even though a lot of the boat is non nuclear, I tend to forget that.
Most of my work is on Tridents, The Seawolf Class and Carriers although I do get to see fast attacks every now and then. I've noticed that the Trident crews do tend to be more whiny than the Los Angeles Class and, believe it or not, the Seawolf. My husband was an ET1 RO, and no, he never made chief- he ended up getting out at 16 years because they were going to stick him in Guam for another 4 (obviously didn't make his 20 because of it).
But personally I am a Nuc Elect Engineer for the Shipyard (Civilian) and direct any nuclear upgrades, repairs and maintenance on all the reactors in the navy (electrically) that are stationed here at PSNS, San Diego and Japan (and travel to may more ports). I do not go down with the Ships (unless it is Sea Trials) but do work on them every day. Although, I do understand that attitudes are usually different pier side than they are out to sea- especially when a long tour is immanent- then the attitudes really tend to go downhill prior to undocking (I even had to deal with a Sailor who purposely went around and cut cables on the Alaska during the night to keep the boat from leaving). I do agree with most info you have provided with the exception of the navy preparing those kids for what sub life is like, I honestly don't think that you could ever 'prepare' anyone for what that is like until you are down there experiencing it first hand. At least, I work with quite a few young sailors that depict this to me when I talk to them and they cannot wait to serve their 4 and get out. It could also be that they are just tired of dealing with all the structure and lack of committed pier-side relationships. :shrugs:
 
Nice job, Tara! Bet you have tons of paperwork!
I won't even fault you for also working on surface ships ;)
It must be quite a change in thinking going from a huge carrier to a small boat like a submarine, even though the Trident class is pretty big.
That's kind of funny that the Boomer crews whine more. I can't figure out why, except for having long boring deployments they have it pretty good. 3 months out, turn over the boat to another crew, 3 months in. A fast attack crew spends about 70% of the year at sea with no other crew to turn over the boat to.
While we're giving each other kudos I have to say that the shipyards are most appreciated by the guys on the boats, or were when I was in. We goofed on the yardbirds sometimes and cussed them out for making things so hard to get to, but we always knew that the boat would be fixed right. When we left the shipyards the boat always worked, the water stayed out of the people tank, at the end of a deployment the number of surfaces equaled the number of dives, and the bubbleheads stayed alive. Thanks!

Outcast said:
Comraderie is a big thing in EOD also. Alot of what was said about being kicked out of a room because you don't qualify for something and being sat down and taught it so you can get signed off on it happens in EOD alot... It happened to me more than once. But I know everything I went through in the service has taught me that I can always ask my EOD brothers for help and since I earned my "crab" they will do what they can to assist me.

My little brother is out in the Pacific somewhere right now on a Sub. I'm not sure what his rate is but I know his primary job is working on the missiles. At least that is what he leads me to believe...lol
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Yeah, man, you help your shipmate because you might need that guy to know something someday!

Kudos to your brother, too, Aaron. Riding a boomer has got to be a very boring deployment.
Is he whiny?
 
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