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Missing person : Betsy (username: "wstphal")

Thanks, Chris. Sincerely.
I'm not exactly Orpheus mourning Eurydice,...I've moved on, since December, from the emotional to the cerebral aspects of the affair.
And again, this quote from December 28th...
vetusvates said:
DYK, new update.
Her city police made contact.
He advised that...She says...
....she is fine, but does not want to be a part of whatever it was she was a part of with us, to stop calling her, to stop calling her work, and to stop trying to contact her in any way at all, to leave her alone and desist....
Click to expand...
So.......................I wonder what or who...could or would...have poisoned her vision of us to cause her to so suddenly and completely sever all ties......hmmmmm.........
Click to expand...
...was told directly and solely to me by the policeman...but I gathered...not confined to me.

NOTE : Upon dissection (look at the red part), it would appear that neither she (if it was she who said it) nor the policeman....knew exactly "what she had been a part of with us". Exceptionally odd. :laugh:
As is evidenced by the content, I took it at the time to mean the forum membership. But to err on the safe side, I ceased trying to contact her myself directly.

Moreover, upon further analysis, if by free will she wished to sever all ties and leave the herp community totally and permanently (and successfully, I might add).....this is what I would do : I would cancel and erase any and all account info, pics, etc. Everything. It would be as if I had never been here, as near as I could accomplish.
Leave no trace, not a single loose end. If I were to evacuate the internet herp community.
But this....she has in no way made any effort to do. Also quite odd.
 
If that was the case and she was to quit why would she have not given back the snakes?

Fact is if she is fine and does not wish to be "part of what ever" then she should have sent the snakes back to their owners ASAP, again to me that throws up all kinds of warning flags.
 
Well

Personally, I dont think she would ever do anyone wrong,so it must be something else going on in her life?
 
vetusvates said:
Stephen, I tend to agree.

She seems to have been more likely externally motivated....than internally motivated.
Click to expand...
I tend to agree with that. I don't know her anywhere NEAR as well as many of you did. But I can certainly imagine a scenario where a new relationship may be having far more control than perhaps it should...

I certainly don't mean to be judgemental of Betsy's strength of will, nor do I intend to imply that any coincidental new relationship, should one exist, might be unhealthy. I'm just saying that it happens, and the language used by the officer may be conveying that, perhaps even intentionally on the officer's part, in 20/20 retrospect...
 
Like I said before, I don't know her at all. I am simply giving my imput from a complete bystander point of view.
 
stephen said:
Personally, I dont think she would ever do anyone wrong,so it must be something else going on in her life?
Click to expand...

I agree too, but does that excuse her behavior? I think a reasonable intelligent person would come forward and at least give a brief explanation in the form of a post or an email to those affected of why they left or are leaving. Especially when they have property belonging to another.

Unless there is another motive, but that is left to pure conjecture.

Wayne
 
Allalaskan said:
Like I said before, I don't know her at all. I am simply giving my imput from a complete bystander point of view.
Click to expand...

I have had the opportunity to meet her and she is an absolutely pleasant woman. She is one of the first people not freaked out by the condition of my post surgery wrist. :awcrap: Which was different.

Her sudden departure was completely unexpected in a "WAY FROM LEFT FIELD" kind of way.

Wayne
 
I honestly feel like something bad happened to her. Like she is being coerced to not make contact.
 
That is exactly right Wayne.
I have, for a long time, been concerned about what is actually going on. I too, knew and met Betsy and her actions and 'reactions' to Eric's concerns were not 'Betsy' in the slightest.

desertanimal said:
Well I'd say that you, more than anyone in this situation, actually have something to leverage to find out what's going on. She has your property and is ignoring your attempts to get it back. Eric has no "skin in the game," so for him to continue to pursue it is unreasonable. He's "just" a spurned friend, and he's been asked to lay off, so he really has to. She is beholden to you because she has your property. It can only be those of you whose property she has who can take further steps to get to the bottom of it.
Click to expand...

I think that this is a totally incorrect way of understanding our concern for her, although I can understand this viewpoint if seen without all of the facts and/or understanding. The concern is that something is possibly legally, physically and emotionally wrong with her, via another person's influence.
The possibility exists (and highly) that she is in duress and/or may be harmed by someone else.
Believe it or not, situations like this happen more often than you would like to think. From what we know and what she's reported to us in the past, she has some close, personal and possibly controlling people in her life that she was possibly 'trying to get away from'. There in lays our concern for her well being.
 
Thank you, Nanci.

And thank you, Tara. It takes a village.

Knowing that many posters here have not had all of the minutia that we have compiled over the months...has made me, for the lack of better words,...charitable and accommodating.

So. Circuitously, I am again brought to the point that if she had been "internally motivated"...perhaps the outcome would have been smoother, and smoother sooner. She could have put her words and her touch to the resolution...or movement toward a resolution.

That I believe in early December there was a discreet/distinct "external motivation" event....is supported by the abrupt and untidy cessation of all communication,...and abandonment of monetary debts owed, four-figure downpayments made,...and then of course the snakes she was baby-sitting.

In other words,...an extremely untidy state of affairs, to say the least.
 
Tara80 said:
I think that this is a totally incorrect way of understanding our concern for her, although I can understand this viewpoint if seen without all of the facts and/or understanding. The concern is that something is possibly legally, physically and emotionally wrong with her, via another person's influence.
The possibility exists (and highly) that she is in duress and/or may be harmed by someone else.
Believe it or not, situations like this happen more often than you would like to think. From what we know and what she's reported to us in the past, she has some close, personal and possibly controlling people in her life that she was possibly 'trying to get away from'. There in lays our concern for her well being.
Click to expand...

I don't think I'm misunderstanding your concern. My point is that if she's asked you to leave her alone, as she has, you basically have no recourse other than to pursue the issue through legal means.

Except for one--the other recourse is to hop on a plane and wait for her at her work. Nothing is preventing any of you from doing that; there aren't any restraining orders out of any of you yet.

My point is that short of hopping on a plane and showing up in person (which none of you has intimated you are considering), the small claims court option is the only way you can hope to push her to tell you what's going on at this point. The property of yours that she has is the only leverage you have to break into the situation, whatever it is. I recognize that the snakes aren't the most important thing to you here. I also recognize that they might be a means to your end, and that you've been shut down in terms of all the other means you've tried to get to that end.
 
I dont understand what situation could occur that would stop a person from in the very least responding?

....did the snakes die and is she embarrassed? Did she receive unknown threats or something? Money trouble and sold them off?? I just can't figure out how a seemingly normal person who change so quickly without any warning. Or maybe she wasn't the nice person everyone thought they knew?

Anyway, I'm glad rats is pursuing this privately because I don't doubt she is still reading these threads.
 
vetusvates said:
That I believe in early December there was a discreet/distinct "external motivation" event....is supported by the abrupt and untidy cessation of all communication,...and abandonment of monetary debts owed, four-figure downpayments made,...and then of course the snakes she was baby-sitting.
Click to expand...

Wait. Are you saying that she owed ppl money while simultaneously making a 4-figure downpayment before she disappeared?
 
desertanimal said:
Except for one--the other recourse is to hop on a plane and wait for her at her work. Nothing is preventing any of you from doing that; there aren't any restraining orders out of any of you yet.
Click to expand...

I have actually contemplated this. If I had the money for the ticket and the time to do so, I would be there.
Anyone have any 'internal' problems that they need to be checked out? ;)
 
Calift said:
I dont understand what situation could occur that would stop a person from in the very least responding?

....did the snakes die and is she embarrassed? Did she receive unknown threats or something? Money trouble and sold them off?? I just can't figure out how a seemingly normal person who change so quickly without any warning. Or maybe she wasn't the nice person everyone thought they knew?

Anyway, I'm glad rats is pursuing this privately because I don't doubt she is still reading these threads.
Click to expand...

Maybe, maybe she was reported as an animal hoarder.
Maybe there are mechanics involved that we don't understand.
Did Jaycee Lee Dugard not answer the door when people would stop over at her kidnapper's house to pick up items sold over the internet?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidnapping_of_Jaycee_Lee_Dugard

There could be many many dynamics involved that we don't know about. We are just concerned 1) for her (if this is externally influenced) and 2) for the snakes she's got.
 
vetusvates said:
Yes .
Click to expand...

Then to me it doesn't seem like the "irregularities" started with her disappearance, but before it.

Unless there's some good explanation for spending that kind of money on something while owing other people money that the people owed know about and agreed to.
 
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