Obama Youth?

[Roy Munson]

...As this current thread has progressed I have seen several people (including me) call people bad names, make fun of others beliefs, poke fun at their names and such but the last few days, some members have become down right mean (at least their words have been). Some of the condescending tone is just unbelievable. I agree with KJ, I grow tired of seeing the blatant profanity, the masked profanity and the out right verbal attacks while the moderators do nothing about it, heck there was nudity in a video posted this week, I reported it to the mods and never got a response and then I reported it to Rich and was told it was ok. So KJ, we might as well get used to it, doesn't seem as if the mods or the owner care. Sorry, I digress.

1. The mods don't read every word posted, and we're not obligated to do so. I'd rather kill MYSELF than have to read every post, particularly in a thread as absurd as this one has become at points. It is up to the members here to alert the mods if they see rules violations. Is there a cop monitoring your back door waiting for a potential intruder? Probably not. If you see suspicious activity, place a call (or shoot them and face whatever consequences).

2. The mods don't usually work as a committee. If even one of us thinks a report is worth acting upon, we usually do so. Occasionally, I'll defer to another mod's stated or apparent decision to act or not, even if I don't agree. We may not be a committee, but we have to work as a team. Very rarely, we DO discuss a reported item. Every one of us, including Rich, offered opinions in the "nudity" report from you, Daryl. We all agreed that the blurry seconds of toplessness in that vid presented little damage potential to the developing psyches of our younger members. Even if you'd been a mod participating in the discussion, you would have been alone (5-1) in your opinion that action needed to be taken.

3. It is extremely rare that a mod will respond personally to a member who reports a post. Who has time for that? Trust me, every report is evaluated. If you doubt that, consider the swiftness with which spammers are taken care of. I spend most of my time here doing mod stuff. So I take personal offense at the claim that the mods and admin don't care. It seems that the people making this claim are the same ones who would rather that the Federal Government stay out of their affairs. Yet they want the cs.com "government" to be involved in every tiny aspect of this board. Personal responsibility-- it's not just for citizens anymore.

4. Mods can't be placed on "ignore," and they can't place any member on "ignore." This makes sense, but KJ's not the only one who wishes that this wasn't the case. Believe me.

 

[jazzgeek]

Just when I thought it couldn't get any better than this:

3. It is extremely rare that a mod will respond personally to a member who reports a post. Who has time for that? Trust me, every report is evaluated. If you doubt that, consider the swiftness with which spammers are taken care of. I spend most of my time here doing mod stuff. So I take personal offense at the claim that the mods and admin don't care. It seems that the people making this claim are the same ones who would rather that the Federal Government stay out if their affairs. Yet they want the cs.com "government" to be involved in every tiny aspect of this board. Personal responsibility-- it's not just for citizens anymore.

I'm met with this:

4. Mods can't be placed on "ignore," and they can't place any member on "ignore." This makes sense, but KJ's not the only one who wishes that this wasn't the case. Believe me.

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

Have my babies, Dean. Or something.


Dale

 

[Roy Munson]

Alas, my child-bearing years are behind me! :grin01:

 

[Nova_C]

Capitalism has provided what any honest observer would conclude is the highest quality health care system on the planet. Market forces don’t just encourage innovation, they force it. Help people survive or your competition will make sure your company dies. That’s why US companies have developed half or all new major medicines introduced worldwide over the last twenty years. For a country with only 5 percent of the world’s population, that’s not too bad.

Any 'honest' observer? So now the World Health Organization is dishonest? What axe do they have to grind against the US?

Also, please cite your sources on that 'US companies have developed half or (sic) all new major medicines introduced worldwide over the last twenty years." I was under the impression that it was universities using government grants (OMG SOCIALISM!) that did the bulk of medical research.

This post is another example of ideological zealotry. Capitalism isn't some kind of miracle solution to all problems. It is just as dangerous as other systems when left unchecked. The credit crisis and housing market crash seen in the US is the logical conclusion of unchecked corporate profiteering - the end result of unregulated capitalism.

 

[Camby]

Every one of us, including Rich, offered opinions in the "nudity" report from you, Daryl. We all agreed that the blurry seconds of toplessness in that vid presented little damage potential to the developing psyches of our younger members. Even if you'd been a mod participating in the discussion, you would have been alone (5-1) in your opinion that action needed to be taken.

It wasn't blurry, I think the saving grace for the nudity was that she wasn't "well endowed". Also, I may have been the only one to report it but there were at least 4 other members who posted replies that warned of the nudity so let's not pretend that it wasn't noticeable, it was. I will say I did check the site rules out and there is no mention against posting videos or photos with nudity in them. Per the response I received from Rich, I guess it comes down to if the nudity in a video lasts too long, if he or the mods deem it damaging to a minor of if the intent is presented in good taste? Not sure how you can post any human nudity in a corn snake forum in good taste, but ok. Also, I didn't take the time to link it, but I do remember a thread that was started "what does everyone look like". In that thread there was mentioned "let's keep it clean", they warned against nudity and tasteless pics. Maybe there shouldn't be a double standard. Nudity is nudity no matter the amount of time. Rich gave his ruling though and I accept that.

In regards to the foul language, I did find this in the rules of the site. I guess it just isn't enforced. Once more for the record, I have been an offender of this policy in the past, but not again, I will remain calm and keep it clean...period.

7) CROSSING THE LINE - Members who let disagreements get out of hand, post inflammatory responses (personal attacks), or use foul language will receive a 3-Day ban from the forum. This is a time to cool down, collect your thoughts, and come back and become a valuable contributor to the community. If it happens again, you will receive a permanent ban. It may seem harsh, but rules have to be in place to keep the forum a positive place free of animosity amongst its members

Under "Additional tips to make your CS.com experience enjoyable"

5) FOUL LANGUAGE – Cursing is not only ill-received by forum members it will also earn you a 3-day banning from the forum. If it continues you will receive a permanent ban period.

I do not need or require a response Dean, I completely understand your point of not reading every word, but it is hard to ignore the rule or accept your statement when I have seen moderators use profanity themselves or quote others who have, as part of thier response.

So I take personal offense at the claim that the mods and admin don't care.

Sorry you take personal offense but if you are a mod and I report something to a mod or have issues with the way a moderator handles a reported issue then it is going to seem personal because you ARE a mod.

It seems that the people making this claim are the same ones who would rather that the Federal Government stay out if their affairs. Yet they want the cs.com "government" to be involved in every tiny aspect of this board. Personal responsibility-- it's not just for citizens anymore.

I may be wrong but I believe those making these claims are the more conservative people? When it comes to rules violations, then yes we do EXPECT you to become involved. Isn't that part of your job description? Comparing my thoughts on the Federal Gov. and CS.com is reaching a bit.

The difference is that with the Federal Government I have to accept the good and the bad becasue the majority of the people in charge are voted in. They are supposed to carry out their constituants wishes, doesn't always happen, but they are supposed to act this way. If Rich and his mods were elected officials and their was an ammendment process and the rules changed, I would just have to accept that. BUT, Rich is not an elected official. CS.com his is baby and he can run it the way he sees fit. I am fine with that, no qualms. However, when Rich has clear rules and guideliness posted against profanity, I assume he or his staff have posted these for a reason. So don't mock us when we utilize the site rules to report what we feel are violations. If profanity is permisible then maybe there shouldn't be a rule up against it eh.

I know it may not seem like it, but I am not arguing with you, I am just making my point or at least trying to, maybe I haven't stumbled around too much.

dc

 

[LBoz]

Dean, I hope Rich is giving you guys a 25% pay raise this year. What would that bring you up to? Oh yeah...nothing.

Thank you guys, for VOLUNTEERING your time. So glad the five of you have absolutely nothing better to do with your lives. xo

 

[Lennycorn]

Alas, my child-bearing years are behind me! :grin01:

It dosen't seem that way from this thread!!!
Hell, I heard the Mods get paid big bucks for changing diapers here.

And if you ever want to give up this cushy job here I know there are alot of other members that think they can do it better.

Now if you could direct me back to the corn snakes site before the pandas get here....

 

[jazzgeek]

Capitalism isn't some kind of miracle solution to all problems.

Unless you live in Ayn Rand's Utopia. :grin01:


Dale

 

[Nova_C]

Unless you live in Ayn Rand's Utopia. :grin01:


Dale

I don't understand how anyone can buy that tripe when unregulated industries routinely gouge the people and cheat and steal their way into corporate profits.

 

[Roy Munson]

It wasn't blurry, I think the saving grace for the nudity was that she wasn't "well endowed". Also, I may have been the only one to report it but there were at least 4 other members who posted replies that warned of the nudity so let's not pretend that it wasn't noticeable, it was.

Well, I'm a near-quadragenarian, and I was probably viewing it on an iphone. It was blurry to me, I swear! I was more disturbed by the actions of the guy in the kangaroo outfit. Breasts weren't the most disturbing thing in that vid.

I will say I did check the site rules out and there is no mention against posting videos or photos with nudity in them. Per the response I received from Rich, I guess it comes down to if the nudity in a video lasts too long, if he or the mods deem it damaging to a minor of if the intent is presented in good taste? Not sure how you can post any human nudity in a corn snake forum in good taste, but ok.

There are some who would argue that the political discussions around here aren't appropriate for youth viewing, or for a cornsnake site in general. I've seen pleny of bad taste in this thread, and it didn't involve nudity.

Also, I didn't take the time to link it, but I do remember a thread that was started "what does everyone look like". In that thread there was mentioned "let's keep it clean", they warned against nudity and tasteless pics. Maybe there shouldn't be a double standard. Nudity is nudity no matter the amount of time. Rich gave his ruling though and I accept that.

Gray areas abound. In many cases, there was no mod/admin team consensus. For this example, there was. :shrugs:

In regards to the foul language, I did find this in the rules of the site. I guess it just isn't enforced. Once more for the record, I have been an offender of this policy in the past, but not again, I will remain calm and keep it clean...period.

7) CROSSING THE LINE - Members who let disagreements get out of hand, post inflammatory responses (personal attacks), or use foul language will receive a 3-Day ban from the forum. This is a time to cool down, collect your thoughts, and come back and become a valuable contributor to the community. If it happens again, you will receive a permanent ban. It may seem harsh, but rules have to be in place to keep the forum a positive place free of animosity amongst its members

You admit that you've been an offender. Maybe you had a hot-headed moment, and your entire posting history shouldn't be dismissed as the result of a slip or two. It's nice that you've pledged to remain calm and clean, but others should have their chance too. The admin is the boss of the mod team. He's guided us to a place where I think we're actually carrying out his own will 99.9% of the time. We answer to him, not you or any other member or group of members.

Under "Additional tips to make your CS.com experience enjoyable"

5) FOUL LANGUAGE – Cursing is not only ill-received by forum members it will also earn you a 3-day banning from the forum. If it continues you will receive a permanent ban period.

I do not need or require a response Dean, I completely understand your point of not reading every word, but it is hard to ignore the rule or accept your statement when I have seen moderators use profanity themselves or quote others who have, as part of thier response.

I don't need to speak for other mods here. I can use myself as an adequate example. I'm a human, site member, and site mod in that order. Two of those three descriptors can be erased by our admin. Despite my own transgressions, he hasn't chosen to do so. Let's be real. No one is banned here unless they REALLY ask for it. The warnings and infraction points are silly games. Most of the members here, and almost ALL of the long-term members know how to handle themselves. This place is largely self-policing, and I wouldn't have it any other way. The mod-team makes a nice, easy target, but we're really not the problem here (if there is one).

Sorry you take personal offense but if you are a mod and I report something to a mod or have issues with the way a moderator handles a reported issue then it is going to seem personal because you ARE a mod.

No problem, man. Really. But the admin seems to be a VERY staunch proponent of free speech. It's a private forum, so he doesn't have to allow it. But he still PROMOTES it. Zeus! I believe in it too. I think we are maintaining a fine balance here. We don't make everyone happy, but I don't think we're doing all that badly! It's not the community we're used to "living" in. The demographics are whackily skewed! We'd run you crazy neo-cons out with pitchforks if you started talking your stuff in my town. :grin01: But I guess that's why I'm here and not at a town meeting. Opposing viewpoints interest me. I welcome yours!

I may be wrong but I believe those making these claims are the more conservative people? When it comes to rules violations, then yes we do EXPECT you to become involved. Isn't that part of your job description? Comparing my thoughts on the Federal Gov. and CS.com is reaching a bit.

I'm not at your back door, Daryl. You see something funny going on there, then let me know. If I don't see the incident the way you see it, then there are four other people who might set things right. Five cops may see a motorist doing 38 in 35mph zone, and none of them may react. The law has been broken, but but the cops can't throw out rationality for the sake of a defined limit. You don't really want this kind of world (do you?), so don't campaign for it here.

The difference is that with the Federal Government I have to accept the good and the bad becasue the majority of the people in charge are voted in. They are supposed to carry out their constituants wishes, doesn't always happen, but they are supposed to act this way. If Rich and his mods were elected officials and their was an ammendment process and the rules changed, I would just have to accept that. BUT, Rich is not an elected official. CS.com his is baby and he can run it the way he sees fit. I am fine with that, no qualms. However, when Rich has clear rules and guideliness posted against profanity, I assume he or his staff have posted these for a reason. So don't mock us when we utilize the site rules to report what we feel are violations. If profanity is permisible then maybe there shouldn't be a rule up against it eh.

He has given us enforcement guidelines. We follow them.

I know it may not seem like it, but I am not arguing with you, I am just making my point or at least trying to, maybe I haven't stumbled around too much.

I respect your points. But I have to admit a flaw of mine as a mod. This little corn-site crap just isn't that serious. We're here to have a good time, and that's actually more important than nailing every little infraction. This is my interpretation of all of Rich's guidance. At first, I resisted the idea-- now I see it's value.

 

[LBoz]

And yet you constantly send me to the naughty corner. *sigh*

 

[Roy Munson]

And yet you constantly send me to the naughty corner. *sigh*

I addressed this:

Maybe you had a hot-headed moment, and your entire posting history shouldn't be dismissed as the result of a slip or two.

 

[LBoz]

LMAO! Touche'.

 

[Susan]

I haven't read this thread in quite a while...and I've only just glanced at some of the posts on the last page (as I have the number of posts/page set) amd it seems that Dean has things well in hand. However, I just want to make one comment to anyone that has a problem with how this thread has been moderated...without reported posts, the mod team will only read the threads that interest them. We are not psychic. We know that threads like this one will have heated debates. Anyone not willing to take the heat had better not even step into the kitchen (Lucille, you've started something that just won't stay in one thread ). And not everyone views certain words in the same manner. What is profane to one is not to another.

Alas, my child-bearing years are behind me! :grin01:

And Dean, how are you handling your hot flashes? I'm having one heck of a time with mine. But I've discovered that when they hit, submerging my head in a bucket of ice water for as long as I can hold my breath at least prevents me from killing things.

 

[jazzgeek]

And Dean, how are you handling your hot flashes? I'm having one heck of a time with mine. But I've discovered that when they hit, submerging my head in a bucket of ice water for as long as I can hold my breath at least prevents me from killing things.

Or as my friend Tamie refers to them, "My Personal Summers". :grin01:


Dale

 

[tyflier]

Don't take this as a debate or an argument, or a jab, insult, or anything of the sort. It's a matter of clarification, from my point of view, and nothing more.

..That said, Chris, I know you said on two occasions that you were through with this thread and I do not like arguing with you. Not because I don't think I can defend my points or "win the argument", but with you there is only your way of thinking and that is it, everyone that doesn't agree with you is treated as if they are beneath you and you are doing us a favor by continuing to post your thoughts and telling us how wrong we are, insinuating how naive and basically ignorant we are. Sorry, but this is one time I have to call foul.

I disagree with the generality of this statement. Rarely do I get blindsided by an argument and resort to the levels that I did in this topic and the other. You're welcome to disagree with that as your opinion, and I've no intention of changing your mind. I admit that I lost my temper. You can assess my behavior in this topic and the "other" topic by itself, or in comparison to my usual behavior and relatively long history on this forum. That choice is yours alone to make. It's entirely up to you. The same goes for the 4 or 5 other people that needed to inform me how they've lost respect for me, and how ever many that haven't come out and said it. Y'all gotta do what you gotta do.

Sorry, you may not have intended KJ take your advice literally and kill himself, but you sure said it. If it were meant to be rethorical, you could have said something less inflamatory or hateful. Maybe, "KJ, you are really getting under my skin, go jump off a cliff" would have been more of a facetious suggestion/comment rather than suggesting flat out that he kill himself. I hate PC, but plain and simple you suggested he kill himself and that was wrong. You keep telling people they "man up" or "grow a set" or "own thier words", whatever you have said, but you keep trying to explain to everyone why you "kill yourself" comment is being take the wrong way, but you keep running around that bush, why not just say, "hey, sorry I said it, I was mad and could have made a better choice of words". Maybe you have said this and I just missed it.

I have not and will not apologize for using those words. They were said entirely out of arrogance and sarcasm. Poor choice of words in the opinion of some, but precisely what I intended to say. The meaning was to be taken facetiously and sarcastically, and yes with arrogance. Nothing more. You can choose to believe that, and get over it, or you can choose to lose all respect for me. Again...the choice is entirely yours.

Truth is, a lot of things were said in these two topics, by many different people, and a good majority of it could have been said in a much nicer way. If you need to make me the "bad guy" so this can go away...go for it. I can accept that.

I don't "take the blame" as a pity party. It is purely an effort to end it all. This thread got way out of hand because of several people. I see a lot of people took more offense to my words than to other people's words. Fine. If that's what it takes to end it, so be it. I accept responsibility. Now leave it alone. That's all I asked in the last post I made. I'm not asking anyone to shake hands, kiss and makeup, apologize, accept an apology, or anything of the sort. I am merely saying to stop. Everyone. Let it go, let it die. Move on. If you, or anyone else, for that matter, has really lost respect for me over that tiny little comment, so be it. There isn't a whole lot I can do about that. Sure, it sucks. But I'll live, and so will you.

Bottom line is...this whole thing just needs to stop. If by me saying that it's my fault, I lost my temper this whole incident can just stop growing...I'm good.

 

[Camby]

I admit that I lost my temper. You can assess my behavior in this topic and the "other" topic by itself, or in comparison to my usual behavior and relatively long history on this forum. That choice is yours alone to make. It's entirely up to you. The same goes for the 4 or 5 other people that needed to inform me how they've lost respect for me.QUOTE]

You won't hear a debate from me, like I said, I lost my temper in this thread and the other one really early on and resulted in calling FT and Jzzgeek bad anmes and poking fun at them, so as I said before, I am as much at fault here as anyone. One thing anyone who knows or ever gets to know me well can say is that I qill take and want the credit good or bad. Unfortunately the last two non snake threads I have participated in have been the bad.

So at any rate, I agree with you and Payton, no matter if we agree or not, lets move on. and for the record, I haven't lost respect for you. I have was disappointed in your actions, but heck, I was disappointed in mine also.

So let's move on to the snakes...:cheers: