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Obama Youth?

Roy Munson said:
There are gray areas. You've benefited from them yourself, from time to time, my friend.

I'm about to start going all medeival on y'all if I don't start seeing more civility and less biased post reporting.
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Dean, can I say something really rank, disgusting, disturbing, and gross before you go medieval and all? I've been really good.
 
ForkedTung said:
Great movie IMHO, but it's definitely a love it or hate it film. I'm partial to Tarantino films,the original dialogue is excellent, plus of course, plenty of gore.
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Yeah, that's what I heard, the love it or hate it part :) and the gore of course!
 
wade said:
Dean, can I say something really rank, disgusting, disturbing, and gross before you go medieval and all? I've been really good.
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You HAVE been very good, Pops, so OK. You'll have a pass from me. But I'm only 20% of the admin/mod team. I can't offer you protection from THEM...
 
obama_clinton_split2.jpg
 
tyflier said:
Payton--
I didn't address your previous post because your previous made no sense. It was a rant and a ramble about something which has no place in this topic and debate. So I ignored it. I don't know what you're talking about because frankly, YOU don't know what you're talking about. You can't even remember which topic you're in, and you're getting frustrated and emotional. So I ignored you and your ranting post, and moved on.

If you would like to calm down and come back to Earth for a minute, maybe we can talk. Otherwise...keep right on trucking.

I do remember someone teling me that this is just the internet, and you weren't supposed to get emotional. Guess that's easier said than done, isn't it? At least I never straight up called people names. You called Dale a fool. That's the first sign that YOU have lost control, not Dale.

But you can continue on with the charade if it's making you feel better...
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tyflier said:
When have I EVER called a person from this forum retarded, in response to a post they made?

And yea, evedently you're missing the definition of the word "insult", because telling someone that killing themself is an option and telling someon to "F" themselves are not insults. By ANY definition of the word. But then again...you've been making up definitions as you go along to fit your needs since you STARTED this topic, so I'm really not surprised that it continues.

Anyhow...I'll be waiting for that direct link and quote where I called someone from this forum, specifically, a ratard. I've called arguments ridiculous. And I called Rush Limbaugh a retard. But as far as I know...Rush LImbaugh isn't a member of this forum, nor was he involved in the topic, nor was my insult a direct response to a post of his.

Care to keep reaching? I'm sure you will. You've been reaching for reasonable arguments and grasping at straws of logic for days now. I certainly don't expect you stop...
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tyflier said:
The lie, discussed in a linked VIDEO CLIP, where the person that STARTED the rumour about Obama preaching indoctrination to our children ADMITTED that he never SAW the pre-released speech before making his claims. You know...the FALSE claims that got your panties all twisted in the first place?

Or did you forget why you started the topic, along with calling Obama Hitler?:poke:

There's a saying where I come from...When the hole is too big to get out of...stop digging...
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tyflier said:
Evidently, what I have missed in this thread, are the links to the various videos and news articles wherein Obama is being followed around, preaching to the masses of world takeover, guiling citizens into believing him, and leading our country on a questi to control the world. Yea...I missed that part.

What YOU have evidently missed in this thread, is peolpe continualy and blatantly pointing out to you that your belief in Obama as Hitler is totally unfounded, compeltely without base, and a ridiculous accusation.

What you GFURTHER miss is how ironic it is to watch you and others blindly accuse Obama based on LIES rhetoric, without ever thinking about the reality and truth of the situation, so much that even when you find out that it is was a LIE that started the whole thing...you keep digging for other connections.

Now we have the "birthers" and the "hitlerers". Both are utterly ridiculous, unfounded, masses of ignorant people that are blindly grasping at any straw they can in an effort to denounce a president they don't agree with.

Now I know that PEEEEEEEEEyton is going to come in here and harangue me about it going "both ways" and it does. And I don't deny that. But when I complain about the things a president is doing...I at least complain about the things that he REALLY did...not the stuff that someone else made up...
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tyflier said:
We still haven't had any. The three from the past couple weeks were all caught. Tough to be a terrorist bombing when you get caught before anything gets bombed. And don't kid yourself into thinking the three this month are the only ones since 9/11/01. I fear it has very little to do with Bush OR Obama, and has more to do with a global view of the US...particularly, this being a good time to attack, sionce the country is so obviously divided...We are being viewed as weak because of our internal struggles.


First...I NEVER stated that Bush put people in jail or Gitmo for talking out against him. I said he put people in Gitmo and POW camps because of their religous beliefs, the color of their skin, and/or their country of origin. And he did. A LOT. That's what "Racial Profiling" is all about, and if you think it didn't happen during the Bush administration...you're more blinded than I thought. Unfortunately, in the U.S., this is a violation of your Civil Rights, and a direct violation of the Constitution of the U.S.


My sources are the news. Cnn, msnbc, FOX, The Daily Show with Joh Stewart, The Colbert Report...I watch all of them. If you did, you would know where my referances are. I don't hide the fact that I spend very little time searching and scouring the internet for referance material. I think it's a waste of time, just to debate with someone, to run around looking for articles. When I have posted direct numbers, I (usually) post the Poll referance that I used, even if it isn't a direct link, I mention when and where I heard/saw it. You don't have to like my manner of citing sources for it to be valid...but whether or not you like it..."I saw it on msnbc" is citing a source...


I never said that. I said if he was NOT black, and he did NOT have such an obscure and obviously Muslim name, there wouldn't be as much trouble. And it's true. If it weren't, than his birth certificate, citizenship, "terrorist ties", religious loyalties, and even his patriotic loyalties would not have been questioned to even 1/10 the degree they have.

Sorry...I don't have a resourceful poll to provide you with for that one. It's purely conjecture on my part. But when every negative thread, at some point, mentions his "ties to terrorists", his love of the Muslim Religion, or his race...it's tough to deny that it has a LOT to do with why so many people distrust him. But you can keep trying, if you'd like...I know you will.


No, it wasn't difficult. But as I said above...it doesn't make any sense, and it's irrelevant. So I ignored it. But if you insist...



I don't buy that for a single second, and neither does anyone else reading this thread.



At least when I got emotional and had emotional responses...I was man enough to own up to it as an emotional response. I didn't apologioze for it, I remain unapologetic, and I still stand behind my emotional tirades, come hell or high water. That's called taking responsibility for my words. Try it.

One last thing, PEAOYTON...a great and wise man once said, "Those who are willing to give up their Freedoms in exchange for security, deserve neither." I could be wrong, but I believe it was attributed to Benjamin Franklin. It has also been said, "It is better to let a thousand guilty men go free than to imprison even one innocent man." I have no idea who gets credit for that, but it rings true...just as true as good ol' Benjamin Franklin, the Traitor and terrorist(gotta love history). I don't care WHY the Bush Administration tried so hard to dissolve my Civil Liberties and suppress my Civil Rights. I care only that it DID...and it almost succeeded.

I refuse to "agree to disagree" about this. You claim indoctrination and similarities to Hitler, than try to bow out, as if your accusations were all a joke and in good fun. BS. For almost 8 years, I listened to the Bush administration tell me to trust them, they would protect me, while they slowly but surely stripped away my Civil Rights. For almost 8 years, I was told that if I didn't support the President(not the troops, not the war on terrorism, not the people fighting and dying...the President), I was unpatriotic and anti-American. For almost 8 years, I was forced to sit idly by while the Bush administration stole from the people(private profits, and public debts), started wars based on lies that were KNOWN to be lies, used fear and hate mongering to control the citizens of this country, and stripped us all of our most basic Constitutional Rights, all under the guise of National Security and the War on Terrorism.

And now you expect me to just sit here, and "agree to disagree" when people are up in arms over words that were never spoken, ideals that were never stated, and claims that are unnjustified? You expect me to sit here and casually accept your right to compare Obama to Hitler, all the while justifying the most totalitarian President we have ever had? Why? Because some teacher made up a cute little song, trying to give the kids a sense of positivity in a world full of fear, terror and uncertainty?

Son...you must be out your mind...

And I won't call you Skppy. I prefer PAEOyton... This way I know it's close...
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huh.jpg


D80
 
Drizzt80 said:
suicide%20prevention.jpg
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LOL. No, I'm still here. Since "growing up" means having to agree with someone who can't even stay consistent on what they claim to believe, I can see why you might think I took the "alternative option." In fact, though, I just ignore childish rants like that.

I'm not posting much because I'm sick and tired of reading profanity and childish mock profanity from moderator(s). You can't put moderators on ignore like you can regular members, so not seeing their posts isn't really an easy option. "Just don't read it" is a little bit harder with that class of user. All I can do is stay away in a case like that.
 
Drizzt80 said:
huh.jpg


D80
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Dude, wrong thread. The Portrait Photography thread is on page 2. Don't forget to mention that this is a self portrait that you spent all day taking of yourself, just to make sure it was a perfect representation...

In all honesty, since you and KJUN seem to have forgotten how to read, Payton seems to have forgotten everything he said about not being emotional, and mike17l(whatever) seems to forget everything...I'm not going to continue this any further.

What I have said, and what it means, is there for all to read, right alongside everything that everyone else has said, and what it means. It's a shame that so many people have "lost respect" for me, but frankly, coming from those that have said it...I won't miss them. What's more of a shame is how easily so many other people will ignore what is typed in post after post, only to jump on a hate bandwagon as soon as someone gets their panties riled.

Oh well. Trouble with many folks in this country is that they tend to listen to the dullards that scream the loudest, instead of the ones that actually make sense...
 
KJUN said:
LOL. No, I'm still here. Since "growing up" means having to agree with someone who can't even stay consistent on what they claim to believe, I can see why you might think I took the "alternative option." In fact, though, I just ignore childish rants like that.

I'm not posting much because I'm sick and tired of reading profanity and childish mock profanity from moderator(s). You can't put moderators on ignore like you can regular members, so not seeing their posts isn't really an easy option. "Just don't read it" is a little bit harder with that class of user. All I can do is stay away in a case like that.
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Can't be talkin 'bout me. I keep my beliefs straight. I know that it's hard for you to understand me KJUN. Afterall, I don't live in a black and white world it's just me against everyone. So I can see where those grey areas can be mighty confusing for you.

But don't worry. These words aren't disappearing. You don't have to try and read it as fast as I type. You and Drizzt can go back and read it as many times as it takes. If you two are lucky, someday you will progrees enough to develope reading comprehension. That's when these forums get really fun. But first you need to be able to actually read and comprehend what other people are typing. So...start with the baby steps. You'll get there.

It must be nice to live in a world where it's only you and everyone else, and everything is black and white. "You're either me, or worthless." That's a great philosophy, and makes life so much easier. So much less to think about when everyone else is wrong, and you're the only one that can see the truth...You're lucky.
 
tyflier said:
It must be nice to live in a world where it's only you and everyone else, and everything is black and white. "You're either me, or worthless." That's a great philosophy, and makes life so much easier. So much less to think about when everyone else is wrong, and you're the only one that can see the truth...You're lucky.
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At least I never stated that you had to agree with me or go kill yourself. I always stood behind your right to live any way you want...as long as it wasn't at MY expense. You are the only one that has to resort to wanting your enemies dead. I don't want anyone that disagrees with me dead - I just want them OUT of my paycheck.

For example, if any healthy able bodied person really wanted free government run health care, then they could join the military and EARN it by serving a tour. Not good enough care for that person? Then they shouldn't suggest it should be forced on the rest of US against our wills. Don't think it is right that they should have to EARN something that they are getting (i.e., you think they should get it for free without working to earn it), then they are nothing more than a mooch on society. It isn't "me or not me." It is "producers" and "moochers." I have no respect or use for full-time moochers. Some people are neither, and they are perfectly OK with me since they still aren't taking from the producers.

See? Health care for everyone ALREADY exists. Too many people want to steal from those that worked harder to exceeds instead of earning it THEMSELVES...and that is the group of people I dislike and have no respect for.
 
KJUN said:
At least I never stated that you had to agree with me or go kill yourself. I always stood behind your right to live any way you want...as long as it wasn't at MY expense. You are the only one that has to resort to wanting your enemies dead. I don't want anyone that disagrees with me dead - I just want them OUT of my paycheck.
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Neither did I, and you know it. It's just easy to keep insisting something that isn't true. You, and everyone else, are too dang smart to have taken that statement this far out of context. It was a facetious and rhetorical statement, made as nothing more than a jab. It was never intended to seriously suggest that you should kill yourself, nor was it ever stated in such a way as to indicate that I wished you dead or harmed. But it's real easy to paint it into a much worse picture than it really was, and since you can, you will, and you, and others, will continue to use it to try and get me riled up.

For example, if any healthy able bodied person really wanted free government run health care, then they could join the military and EARN it by serving a tour. Not good enough care for that person? Then they shouldn't suggest it should be forced on the rest of US against our wills. Don't think it is right that they should have to EARN something that they are getting (i.e., you think they should get it for free without working to earn it), then they are nothing more than a mooch on society. It isn't "me or not me." It is "producers" and "moochers." I have no respect or use for full-time moochers. Some people are neither, and they are perfectly OK with me since they still aren't taking from the producers.
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Nobody ever said aything about people being lazy, sitting on their butts, and getting free medical coverage except you. Besides, as I've said many, many, many times in the other thread...those people already have full coverage, provided by the government.

The people that I am talking about, that you seem to think don't exist, are the hard working, tax paying, legal American citizens that simply cannot afford private insurance in it's current state. I have never advocated a Public Option. I have only advocated a change to the current system. I don't care who provides the insurance, as long as it is something I can afford. I don't mind paying. I'm just looking for some changes that will regulate the industry enough that I can afford to pay. And there are a LOT of people just like me in this country today. Ain't none of us lazy, theives, or looking to you to pay our way.

There's nothing lazy, sloppy, socialist, or unAmerican about that. But it certainly seems that some of you guys are going way out of your way to twist things around and get people all riled up.

See? Health care for everyone ALREADY exists. Too many people want to steal from those that worked harder to exceeds instead of earning it THEMSELVES...and that is the group of people I dislike and have no respect for.
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Again...nobody said anything about asking you to pay for my healthcare. Yea...insurance already exists. So why are you against it being regulated so that everyone can afford it, instead of just you, and a few.

As I said to you earlier, you're only seeing two classes of citizens...Welfare and Public Assistance recipients, and the well-off. I have no problem with people that have worked and earned their way, and I have no intention of trying to deny anyone any of what they have rightfully and legally earned. And I NEVER claimed otherwise. The only thing I have ever advocated in this thread was for reform of the current situation.

The problem is...you, and Brent, and Payton, and mike17l(whatever) keep twisting things around, and going to extremes. Of course...this sends everyone to extremes. You guys hurl insults around, I hurl insults around, and every single one of us plays that game where we walk the line of the rules, and see who is gonna stumble first.

But I'm the only bad guy.

Ok. So be it. I'm the bad guy. It's me. My fault. Always is, always has been. I take full blame. I'm evil, horrible, disgusting, and I don't deserve respect from anyone. Cool. I can live with that.

I'm done being riled up by you guys. Somewhere around here is a list of Site Rules. In that list it distinctly states that there will not be any flaming, antagonizing, or otherwise instigating. I won't link to it, because everyone knows where to find it. Bottom line is...every one of us has participated in breaking that rule on multiple occasions at multiple times in several threads over the last couple weeks.

Stop it. I'm done. You be done too. Don't come back into the thread and start tossing around thinly veiled insults and jabs trying to get me going again. It just ain't fair to the rest of the forum...I'll let it die right here, if you guys do, too. All of us.
 
KJUN said:
See? Health care for everyone ALREADY exists. Too many people want to steal from those that worked harder to exceeds instead of earning it THEMSELVES...and that is the group of people I dislike and have no respect for.
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Actually, KJUN, I feel exactly the same way.
 
I have watched this thread progress from the shadows for a while now, I just lost the taste for it and the "other one" so I quit posting, it wasn't worth it. Both threads were causing me to have really bad feelings towards some members on here and I seemed to come on here more to follow these two threads rather than to talk snakes. So, I have stayed out of until now.

As this current thread has progressed I have seen several people (including me) call people bad names, make fun of others beliefs, poke fun at their names and such but the last few days, some members have become down right mean (at least their words have been). Some of the condescending tone is just unbelievable. I agree with KJ, I grow tired of seeing the blatant profanity, the masked profanity and the out right verbal attacks while the moderators do nothing about it, heck there was nudity in a video posted this week, I reported it to the mods and never got a response and then I reported it to Rich and was told it was ok. So KJ, we might as well get used to it, doesn't seem as if the mods or the owner care. Sorry, I digress.

It isn't a secret, there are several lines of thoughts/beliefs or whatever you may want to call them and we do not all have to agree, but I believe the arguments can be kept civil. Again, make no mistake, I have been just as bad as others (mostly in the other thread) but either way, I have been wrong to throw out the jabs and for that I am sorry. But I do not think I have at any point been "down right mean and abusive" to others. That said, Chris, I know you said on two occasions that you were through with this thread and I do not like arguing with you. Not because I don't think I can defend my points or "win the argument", but with you there is only your way of thinking and that is it, everyone that doesn't agree with you is treated as if they are beneath you and you are doing us a favor by continuing to post your thoughts and telling us how wrong we are, insinuating how naive and basically ignorant we are. Sorry, but this is one time I have to call foul.


tyflier said:
Messin' with me? You're not "messin'" with me...you're fighting a losing battle, and you know it, so you are trying to save some face, feign some grace, and bow out before you get yourself more riled up. Don't condescend me. You should have put down your stick loooooong ago...
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tyflier said:
Neither did I, and you know it. It's just easy to keep insisting something that isn't true. You, and everyone else, are too dang smart to have taken that statement this far out of context. It was a facetious and rhetorical statement, made as nothing more than a jab. It was never intended to seriously suggest that you should kill yourself, nor was it ever stated in such a way as to indicate that I wished you dead or harmed. But it's real easy to paint it into a much worse picture than it really was, and since you can, you will, and you, and others, will continue to use it to try and get me riled up.
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Sorry, you may not have intended KJ take your advice literally and kill himself, but you sure said it. If it were meant to be rethorical, you could have said something less inflamatory or hateful. Maybe, "KJ, you are really getting under my skin, go jump off a cliff" would have been more of a facetious suggestion/comment rather than suggesting flat out that he kill himself. I hate PC, but plain and simple you suggested he kill himself and that was wrong. You keep telling people they "man up" or "grow a set" or "own thier words", whatever you have said, but you keep trying to explain to everyone why you "kill yourself" comment is being take the wrong way, but you keep running around that bush, why not just say, "hey, sorry I said it, I was mad and could have made a better choice of words". Maybe you have said this and I just missed it.



tyflier said:
The problem is...you, and Brent, and Payton, and mike17l(whatever) keep twisting things around, and going to extremes. Of course...this sends everyone to extremes. You guys hurl insults around, I hurl insults around, and every single one of us plays that game where we walk the line of the rules, and see who is gonna stumble first.

But I'm the only bad guy.

Ok. So be it. I'm the bad guy. It's me. My fault. Always is, always has been. I take full blame. I'm evil, horrible, disgusting, and I don't deserve respect from anyone. Cool. I can live with that.
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We agree here, as I stated above, we have all been bad on this a few other threads and probably all need a paddling or time out, but come on man, drop the pity drive. I know it, you know it and others know it, you are intelligent on many issues, but you seem to want to argue with anything that differs from your opinion. Trouble with fighting with pigs in the mud is that most of the time the pig enjoys it.

tyflier said:
I'm done being riled up by you guys. Somewhere around here is a list of Site Rules. In that list it distinctly states that there will not be any flaming, antagonizing, or otherwise instigating. I won't link to it, because everyone knows where to find it. Bottom line is...every one of us has participated in breaking that rule on multiple occasions at multiple times in several threads over the last couple weeks.

Stop it. I'm done. You be done too. Don't come back into the thread and start tossing around thinly veiled insults and jabs trying to get me going again. It just ain't fair to the rest of the forum...I'll let it die right here, if you guys do, too. All of us.
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Here is the biggest issue I have seen lately. One or two days ago when Payton said hey lets agree to disagree and drop this, you jumped him again and tossed more insults at him and proceeded to tell him he was just trying to save face and he was bailing out because he could not defend his position. I am not trying to draw you back into the thread or argument, but how is your recent comments different from Payton saying he was going to drop out? Are we now to read your comments towards Payton and assume you are just trying to save face and can't defend your points? Of course not, I truly think you have the same thoughts Payton had and the thoughts I had (reason I dropped out). You have grown tired of this argument and it just isn't worth the effort anymore, right? So, how can Payton be wrong for this but you are right?

Sorry, I didn't want to join back in this thread and believe me, I know how infuriating it can be to argue with KJ wether you are right or worng. Try driving with him from West Texas back to Houston arguing the entire time, but not all of his points are made up and invalid and the same can be said for your points. so truly we do all need to agree to disagree. Truth is, that is the thing about a democracy (We are actually a republic). To exist in a democracy, you can't just pick the points you like and do with out the ones you don't like. You have to take the good with the bad. Make sense? I am "done with this thread", but I did need to get this off my chest, I just couldn't take watching you and a few others berrate and put down others and then assume your ideas were the only right ones.

dc
 
Ok... I haven't really payed attention very much on this thread, mostly because tyflier's posts really ramble on...

So, i am just posting a few things on healthcare. BTW, i used "arguing with idiots" by glen beck as a reference for some of this stuff.

This in no way has any type of referral to anything said in this thread, its just healthcare info.

The Claim that “we’re the richest country in the world” is typically left unchallenged. Sure, America is relatively well off, no one is arguing that, but this claim is specifically designed to make you believe that “were so rich, we can afford to spend a lot more”. Unfortunately, that’s not even remotely close to true. If your neighbor has a Porsche in the driveway of his McMansion, but cant pay any of his bills- is he really the richest guy in the neighborhood? Its not that we have no money as a nation- is he really the richest guy in the neighborhood? Its not that we have no money as a nation-its that we have less than no money as a nation- and its only getting worse. Our balance sheet is deteriorating almost as quickly as NBC news’ credibility.

To go back to your McMansion-man analogy, adopting universal health care now would be like our bankrupt Porsche- owning neighbor pulling out his capital one card and booking a month long excursion to Fiji. We don’t have the money for a trip to Fiji. We don’t even have the money for a bottle of Fiji water! I can promise you that we definitely don’t have the money for universal healthcare.


Fortunately, its not all bad news. Our health care system is actually much healthier than the media and some politicians would have you believe. There claim about the number of uninsured is about as inflated as my stomach in a hotel room when someone else is paying for room service. The figure “46 million uninsured” is a marquee argument for those advocating more government control of our health care. To illustrate what I mean, lets break down the 46 million into a few different groups. First, about 10 million of the uninsured are illegal aliens or other noncitizens who likely wouldn’t even qualify for “universal health care” if we had it.

That leaves us with around 36 million uninsured left- which is still a large group, but this is where the general concept of personal responsibility comes in. About 18 million people without insurance have a household income of over $50,000 per year. More than half of them have a household income of over $75,000 a year- certainly enough to afford health insurance if it were a top priority for them. (You can bet that very few of those people go without a cell phone, cable or satellite television, and/or a high-speed internet connection) But isn’t that their choice? Until the government runs our lives like we’re a car company in decline, they shouldn’t be able to examine our budget line by line and tell us how to spend our money.


Most rational people will argue that they aren’t looking to give there tax dollars to non citizens and people making over $75,000 a year- they just want to help Americans who really need it. Can’t the government get involved to support people like that?
Well, sure they can. And they sure do. In the supposedly free market world of American health insurance, 83 million people already benefit from some sort of government health care. Think about that. While we were looking at the other way arguing the pros and cons of government health care, close to 30% of our country is already living under it! In addition, another 14 million of America’s “uninsured” already qualify for government insurance; They just haven’t they just haven’t applied for it yet.

The four hour emergency room target led to patients starting to feel like they were at a really boring government version of a six flags amusement park. When you get in line for the newest, most hyped roller coaster, you inevitably stand for hours in an everlasting snaking line of sweaty tourists before finally approaching what you think is the finish line. But when you walk into that room you realize that its just another everlasting line snaking through even more sweaty over weight tourists wearing spandex, fanny packs, and Crocs.
That’s basically what was happening in the UK emergency rooms. To hit their targets, hospitals were waiting until just before the 4 hour deadline was up before admitting patients, only to then make them suffer through another interminable wait once inside. Problem solved! The effect was the government target being hit, but without an actual improvement in quality of care, and at ten times the cost.

Capitalism has provided what any honest observer would conclude is the highest quality health care system on the planet. Market forces don’t just encourage innovation, they force it. Help people survive or your competition will make sure your company dies. That’s why US companies have developed half or all new major medicines introduced worldwide over the last twenty years. For a country with only 5 percent of the world’s population, that’s not too bad.


Well, there you are...

Hopefully from now on, i will be able to follow this thread better...
 
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