• Hello!

    Either you have not registered on this site yet, or you are registered but have not logged in. In either case, you will not be able to use the full functionality of this site until you have registered, and then logged in after your registration has been approved.

    Registration is FREE, so please register so you can participate instead of remaining a lurker....

    Please be certain that the location field is correctly filled out when you register. All registrations that appear to be bogus will be rejected. Which means that if your location field does NOT match the actual location of your registration IP address, then your registration will be rejected.

    Sorry about the strictness of this requirement, but it is necessary to block spammers and scammers at the door as much as possible.

PILE-O LAVAS & LAVA CINDERS !!

Thanks Jen!

I may have missed this somewhere, but have you had a het cinder female that was only able to produce female cinders? Not including Zenny, I think her results were just chance since there were only 3 viable eggs.
 
No- aside from Zenny with the small all female clutch, the other snakes I have produced cinder from have either had both male and female cinders, or just male cinders.
 
Do you happen to know the gender of the 4th (non-cinder) hatchling from Zenny's clutch? If it was also female, then that would tell us that she should be able to produce normal sex ratios, assuming it wasn't a crossover. It was to a visual male, right? If it was to a het male, it wouldn't tell us anything.
 
OK I am going to look like a big liar now because I just looked in the most obvious place of all right here on this forum and entered the search term "Zenny" linked below is the thread about that 2011 pairing with photos of pairing, snakes, slugs and all. I was again wrong the 4th baby was a cinder too- and MALE. My notebook had the genders written down but not the morphs.
I apologize for the misinformation, you geneticists are tough lol.


http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=111147&highlight=Zenny
 
Great!!! That confirms my idea that she should be able to make male and female cinders since she has the same W chromosome as he sister who could make cinder males and cinder females!
 
Lol and you don't look like a liar, you can't be expected to recall all this info off the top of your head!
 
Thanks but believe me after all this I am going to be downright fussy about keeping better records and writing this stuff down in a way I might still understand my own shorthand a couple of years later!
I always take baby pics and I put the pairing info on my website,each baby gets a number and I know what the parents are based on that number, how hard should it be to make a list of exactly what hatched and what gender each one is? :headbang:
 
Interesting that there don't seem to be any female makers. Tells me that the first het cinder that had skewed sex ratios was almost certainly a male maker and that crossover is really really really rare in the females with the "suppressor" chromosome.
 
I'm hoping the person that bought Zenny's sister "Zpade" gets back to me, he bred her and she had cinder babies this year.
Also, I have another project going where I bred a cinder male to a lavender female,if your theory is valid would all the het cinders I held back from this pairing be able to produce only males? I'm still trying to grasp this.
 
It could go either way. These W (or maybe Z) variants that suppress crossing over on the cinder locus could be in a bunch of corns but since no other known mutations appear to be on the ZW chromosomes, we would never notice them. But it your het cinder daughters produce male and female cinders, you can count on them continuing to do so. But if they only produce males they will also continue to do so clutch after clutch. I will eventually explain this all more coherently with pictures eventually.
 
For future reference you can circumvent the issue if you start cinder projects with cinder females bred to a male of whatever morph you are wanting to combine with cinder.
 
Hi all, very interesting and I can see this in our breedings as well.
Here are some results.. I'll need to look up the parents of these breeding animals separately. These are 2013 breedings...

male x female = results

Amel Cinder Stripe X Butter Motley het Cinder
=
8.0 Amel Cinder Motley/Stripe
0.6 Amel Motley/Stripe
0.1 Butter Motley Stripe
Parents of the Amel Cinder Stripe were both Amel het Cinder Stripe
Parents of the Butter Motley het Cinder were both normal het Amel Cinder Caramel Motley

Amel Cinder Stripe X Caramel het Ultra Cinder Motley
3.0 Cinder
1.0 Cinder Motley/Stripe
0.3 Motley/Stripe
0.4 Ultramel
5.0 Ultramel Cinder
3.0 Ultramel Cinder Motley/Stripe
1.1 Ultramel Motley/Stripe
Parents of the Amel Cinder Stripe were both Amel het Cinder Stripe

Amel het Cinder X Normal het Amel Cinder
3.3 Amel
0.1 Amel Cinder
1.1 Cinder
4.5 Normal

Het Lava Cinder X Lava het Cinder
2.1 Lava
2.0 Lava Cinder
1.5 Normal

Lava Cinder ph Amel X Normal het Cinder ph Lava
3.0 Cinder
0.4 Normal

Normal het Amel Cinder Caramel Hypo Motley X Amel het Cinder Stripe
5.2 Amel
1.1 Amel Cinder Motley/Stripe
0.1 Amel Motley
1.1 Cinder Motley/Stripe
4.2 Normal

Cheers
Adam
 
Hi Adam, this is great! Could you shoot me private message? I am collecting data potentially for a small publication if you would be interested in participating. I need all the info I can get in order to do the statistics, but if you contact me I can give you some specific questions to get things started.
 
So... looks like you have 2 normal sex ratio makers and 4 male makers out of those 6 het cinder females. Still no female makers have been reported, I think.

This one really interests me. It sure looks like the het female is a male maker...which should mean all the non visual cinder offspring were females since she was paired with a visual cinder. So... is that one ultramel motley stripe missexed? The result of a crossover? Or is the momma really a normal sex ratio maker and the results of this clutch were just really skewed?

adsclarke said:
Amel Cinder Stripe X Caramel het Ultra Cinder Motley
3.0 Cinder
1.0 Cinder Motley/Stripe
0.3 Motley/Stripe
0.4 Ultramel
5.0 Ultramel Cinder
3.0 Ultramel Cinder Motley/Stripe
1.1 Ultramel Motley/Stripe
Click to expand...
 
The reason I suspect there are no female makers is because whenever cinder is introduced by crossing to a wt female, all the daughters will have cinder on their Z chromosome since they got it from dad. The only way they can get it on their W is if they got it from mommy, and if mommy had it on her W she was either produced by a homo cinder female (produced by another homo female or a het without suppressed crossover) or by a mom that also had it on her W...you get where that is going. So female (only) makers should be exceedingly rare if they exist at all.
 
I think it is more likely that that one ultramel motley/stripe male is the result of a crossover or missexed. Too bad he/she is too young to be proven!
 
Lol! Technically you shouldn't have to since the expected ratio of genotypes haven't changed, only how they are distributed among the sexes. Ie a lava cinder x lava het cinder still gives a 1:1 ratio of lava cinders and lava het cinders, except depending on the dame, all the lava cinders might be male and the lavas all female!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top