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PILE-O LAVAS & LAVA CINDERS !!

ghosthousecorns said:
Most of my het cinders were fathered by "Zephyr"
In 07 The following pairings occured
Zephyr X "Circe" producing "Zap" that throws male cinders and others (proved not het cinder)
Zephyr X "Hera" producing "Zipporah" that throws male cinders and others that proved not het.
Zephyr X hypo Medusa producing "Zenny and Zpade" the 2 sisters we are talking about that both proved het cinder and have thrown females

This help?

AFAIK The females paired to Zephyr were unrelated to one another
Click to expand...
Ok, so I am trying to calculate this out.
I have a male Cinder het Hypo and a female het Cinder Hypo out of Zpade, who is one of the het females who throws both males and female Cinders (and Hypo Cinders).
the sire to these babies is Aragorn, who is (if I researched correctly) out of Zipporah, who only throws male. Is that correct Jen?
 
Oh, and I am also going to be getting a Miami Tessera female, het for Cinder.
She is one that I produced in 2011 when I borrowed Tara's male Okeetee Tessera and paired to my female Miami-phase. (One of her siblings recently proced out het Amel, which was a complete surprise to me).
Anyhow, she was paired with Aragorn as well, who came from a female who only produces male Cinders.
I will need male Cinder from a line that produces females to ensure female Cinder TEssera babies, correct?

Would my new pair have a higher chance of producing female Cinders since Zpade throws females, or does the fact that the sire comes from a line that produces only males cancel that out?
 
If I am right the male should be irrelevant. The only thing that should matter is the female. If your female Miami tessera came from a cinder mother, then she should be able to make both. If her mother was het cinder, you will have to breed her to find out if she can throw both or not, unless her mother is known to be able to produce only male cinders or both male and female cinders.

The female het cinder hypo should be able to throw both, because she received her W chromosome from her mother, who was able to throw both.
 
DuxorW said:
If I am right the male should be irrelevant. The only thing that should matter is the female. If your female Miami tessera came from a cinder mother, then she should be able to make both. If her mother was het cinder, you will have to breed her to find out if she can throw both or not, unless her mother is known to be able to produce only male cinders or both male and female cinders.

The female het cinder hypo should be able to throw both, because she received her W chromosome from her mother, who was able to throw both.
Click to expand...
The female Miami Tessera is from another female Miami Tessera. She was paired with a male Cinder (aragorn) who came from a female (Zipporah-I believe) that only produces males. The Miami Tessera will be het Cinder.

The 1.0 Cinder het Hypo and the 0.1 het Cinder Hypo came from the same Cinder male (Aragorn) but their Dam is Zpade (het Cinder Hypo female that throws female and male Cinders).
 
You will have to breed the het cinder miami tessera to find out, as there is no way to know since her mom is not het cinder.

The het cinder hypo female should be able to throw both.
 
So does the male come into play at all, or is it all on the female then? (Sorry if this was answered earlier).
I read that ideally, best to start with a homo Cinder female, but if the het Cinder in a the female is from a male who's Dam produces only males, will that affect the outcome? (Or has that extent even been figured yet?)
 
I can imagine a scenario where it would matter, and it will be interesting to see if it does. If it did, it would be difficult to demonstrate for a few reasons. It's hard too speculate too much without knowing the exact mechanism suppressing the crossover. I

n a simplified scenario where there are two variants of the W chromosome, one that can crossover at the cinder locus with Z and one that can't, then the male shouldn't come into play. However, with the miami tessera het cinder female, you'd still have to breed her to find out.
 
Thank you!
I will be working on tracking down history on my other Cinders, and see what I can find out.

On another note, what are the thoughts (if any) about the difference between the red Cinders and the all grey Cinders?
 
Two cinder animals will differ at many other loci in their genome because they are not identical twins. Many other genes presumably interact to influence the final color.
 
MysticExotics said:
On another note, what are the thoughts (if any) about the difference between the red Cinders and the all grey Cinders?
Click to expand...

I've heard about this, but don't really know much about it. I assume people have already considered the possibility that it is 2 different but similar genes?

It would be interesting to see if the whether it is a red cinder or a grey cinder makes any difference in whether or not it is one that crosses over easily.
 
It makes sense that other genes influence the red vs grey coloring on Cinders. The red Cinders I have seen seem to come from Miami or Upper Keys lines.
 
If they were two different genes, crossing a red cinder to a gray one would create all normals.

Someone has also suggested to me the idea that there are two genes that result in the cinder phenotype and one is sex-linked and the other is not. Kind of like Kahl vs Sharp albinos in boas. This doesn't seem to be the case based on the scenario above (crossing incompatible types would result in all normals), and especially since both het females that make only male cinders and het females that make male and female cinders can be traced back to the original cinder.
 
My first cinder morph is male. From two het parents. From a male grandsire. I really hope this doesn't mean they all will be male. But I'd rather have all males than no more!
 
Nanci said:
My first cinder morph is male. From two het parents. From a male grandsire. I really hope this doesn't mean they all will be male. But I'd rather have all males than no more!
Click to expand...

If I'm not mistaken, a male het cinder produced both a male making and male/female making daughter (half sisters). So the outcome shouldn't be affected by your male.
 
Just my 2 cents of data:

The cross of ACR#s 6569 and 6572 (one a "red" cinder, the other a "grey") produced a clutch of some red, some grey.
 
I was asked to post results here from a friends Cinder clutch.

The Sire was a Homo Cinder (PH Hypo) Dame was a Classic (Het Cinder) no other Hets involved with the female. 8 eggs hatched and the ratio was 1.7

Temps were steady at 82 degrees.
 
DuxorW said:
I see what you're saying now. Technically though, allelic would mean they are the same gene. For example, motley and stripe are two different alleles of the same gene.
Click to expand...

Oh. I probably have my terminology wrong then. So the word "gene" basically means what address it lives at? And alleles are the different possibilities we have at that address? Then what is locus?

So motley and stripe are the same gene (they are found at the same place), but they are different alleles?

Maybe I knew that when I was in college, but certainly since then my mind has been polluted by those BP people who seem fond of using terms incorrectly. :) In BP lingo, butter and lesser are (probably) the same gene, but mojave is a different gene. If I'm understanding you correctly, the technically correct way to say it is that butter and mojave and all the rest of the BEL complex are the different alleles of the same gene?
 
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