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Planted fish tank

tom e said:
Right on! Yeah, I'll wait then. I had heard the same about the otos. I was worried I lost one (and at least a few shrimp actually) because I couldn't ever count them all when the tank was full of plants. Turns out that they were just hiding. All present and accounted for.

Do you have to keep the shrimp separate so they won't interbreed? I understand some varieties of shrimp are really the same species but you'll start breeding 'normals' if they go together.
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Exactly...the yellows, blues, red cherries, etc. are all in the caradina family, and the colors will really wash out if they hybridize. I'd love to do crystal reds, but I'm too cheap to get an RO unit, and my water is liquid cement out of the tap.

Have you checked out Mustafa's site? Awesome if you're interested in other varities of shrimp..

http://www.petshrimp.com/
 
Very nice.
When I was in High School, I was into fish and had a planted tank.
I just bought some plants for my Crested Gecko's tank.
 
My two cents on bottled bacteria: it's worth about the price of the bottle it comes in. I know the nomenclature has changed, but these bateria were called Nitrosomonas (for the ones that feed on NH4) and Nitrobacter (for the ones that feed on NO2, the waste product of Nitrosomonas). Both genera are aerobic. The bottles are sealed. I've tried using Cycle, etc. in as identical aquariums (in terms of size, filtration, photoperiod, etc.) with as close to the same bio-load as I could pull off, and measured exactly the same amount of daily food to the 100th of a gram. I've done this a number of times. Results: inconclusive... but certainly no evidence of tanks cycling faster, or spikes of ammonia or nitrites being lower in the tanks using the bottled bacteria.

I'll usually take a sponge filter from a healthy tank, squeeze it out in water from that tank, let it settle, and pour off the clear part on top into the tank I am cycling. If the tanks are both in my home (or store now), I'll do this daily. If I run out of "dirty" sponges, I'll vacuum some gravel and do the same. More often than not, I never even see 1 PPM of either NH4 or NO2 when doing this. Of course, with a well-lit tank full of fast-growing stem plants, I usually never get any detectable measurements of either.

As for ottos, see if there is a store that will order a 25 or so for you and sell them to you in the shipping bag. Tell 'em you'll pay for any DOAs, within reason, and you should be able to get them for about a buck and a half a piece. They are still getting a 30-50% markup, and don't have to suffer any shrinkage themselves. These fish ship poorly, and don't take change or high temps well, but once settled in are quite hardy and nothing eats film algae better! I keep about 50 in each of my 125s, and they are actually really cool to watch! They school at times, especially during water changes, and really keep the glass and plant's leaves clean. SAEs are okay, I like their looks better than the job they do, though. Glad you got the CAEs out. Those things are of the devil.
 
Fish are great aren't they?

LBoz said:
Even under stringent laboratory conditions, you'd be hard pressed NOT to end up with nitrifying bacteria in the presence of ammonia or nitrites. Your tank WILL cycle, it's just a matter of how fast or slowly it happens. Plants are wonderful for the overall health of a tank, so you really can't go wrong there.

Craig, I've never been a fan of StressZyme, but that's just me. I know others that swear by the stuff. The only thing I've ever used with success personally is bio-spira. I was sad to see it leave the market, although the developer...Tim something...has apparently repackaged it under a new name after leaving Marineland. If your lfs doesn't store it right, though, it becomes an expensive package of dead bacteria.
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I'm a creature of habit and got Stress Zyme for free when I woked in a pet store so I'll use till I die. There is a local store in Lakeland where the owner has developed his own bacteria product. The only one he carries. He was able to convince Lisa she needed it or her fish would die so I'm using it now till its gone.


elrojo said:
My two cents on bottled bacteria: it's worth about the price of the bottle it comes in. I know the nomenclature has changed, but these bateria were called Nitrosomonas (for the ones that feed on NH4) and Nitrobacter (for the ones that feed on NO2, the waste product of Nitrosomonas). Both genera are aerobic. The bottles are sealed. I've tried using Cycle, etc. in as identical aquariums (in terms of size, filtration, photoperiod, etc.) with as close to the same bio-load as I could pull off, and measured exactly the same amount of daily food to the 100th of a gram. I've done this a number of times. Results: inconclusive... but certainly no evidence of tanks cycling faster, or spikes of ammonia or nitrites being lower in the tanks using the bottled bacteria.

I'll usually take a sponge filter from a healthy tank, squeeze it out in water from that tank, let it settle, and pour off the clear part on top into the tank I am cycling. If the tanks are both in my home (or store now), I'll do this daily. If I run out of "dirty" sponges, I'll vacuum some gravel and do the same. More often than not, I never even see 1 PPM of either NH4 or NO2 when doing this. Of course, with a well-lit tank full of fast-growing stem plants, I usually never get any detectable measurements of either.

As for ottos, see if there is a store that will order a 25 or so for you and sell them to you in the shipping bag. Tell 'em you'll pay for any DOAs, within reason, and you should be able to get them for about a buck and a half a piece. They are still getting a 30-50% markup, and don't have to suffer any shrinkage themselves. These fish ship poorly, and don't take change or high temps well, but once settled in are quite hardy and nothing eats film algae better! I keep about 50 in each of my 125s, and they are actually really cool to watch! They school at times, especially during water changes, and really keep the glass and plant's leaves clean. SAEs are okay, I like their looks better than the job they do, though. Glad you got the CAEs out. Those things are of the devil.
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Great point on using the sponge from an established tank to a cycling one. I have done that before myself. Something else I do is to use two AquaClears on each tank and only clean them on alternative months.
 
Yep, I totally agree...I haven't cycled a tank in years. I LOVE the AC filters, and I keep pre-filters on the intake tubes plus multiple sponges in the media holders. When I moved here, I did ONE cycle with bio-spira, and that's the last one. Cycling is a pita, but a cycled tank (regardless of how it gets to that point) is crucial. It amazes me how many pet stores "chains, specifically" don't tell people this important fact.
 
Does the name.....

LBoz said:
Yep, I totally agree...I haven't cycled a tank in years. I LOVE the AC filters, and I keep pre-filters on the intake tubes plus multiple sponges in the media holders. When I moved here, I did ONE cycle with bio-spira, and that's the last one. Cycling is a pita, but a cycled tank (regardless of how it gets to that point) is crucial. It amazes me how many pet stores "chains, specifically" don't tell people this important fact.
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PetSmart or PETCO ring a bell. I don't give a crap anymore, if I'm in their store and they' re steering a customer wrong or omitting some important info, I butt right in.
 
Wanna know a secret? (Stop me if you've heard this one...) My bottom feeders typically get green beans from the table. Yeah, yeah...I've heard all the "Gasp! They have to be unsalted!!!!!!11!!) Whatever. I've been doing it for years. But! A year or so ago the fish club had a speaker who was a koi breeder. His food of choice for the herbivores (ancistrus, shrimp, golds, etc.) was etamame. It doesn't foul the water because they really don't break down. I buy a 1# bag for about $2 at the grocery store...I buy the "shelled" type, but there is still a membrane on them that you should remove. Anyway, I nuke them for ~ 7 minutes, cool them (removing the membrane) and them dump them in the tank. My shrimp and ancistrus go nuts over it. Much cheaper than the packaged veggie food.
 
It's not uncommon to see me.....

putting squash and the other one that begins with a Z I can't spell, for herbivores and Pacu.
 
LOL! That would be "z"ucchini, right, Craig? ;) I use a lot of that, but again, it breaks down quickly and if you leave it in for more than a day it can really make your tank nasty...at least that's what I've found. When I had a common pleco, I used that all the time. My ancistrus seemed to go through it a bit more slowly. Definitely an awesome food source, though!
 
Unless it was for Pacu....

I would wrap the squash and Z in plant weights. Then remove it before the end of the day.
 
You're a MUCH "more better" fishkeeper than me, Craig. Hmmm...that Might have something to do with why I've had several tanks crash over the years...ya think?

Lenny had asked about setups...most of my tanks were breeders, so not exactly decorative, but I threw a few photos in my profile album. My camera skillz suk, though.
 
I don't know about that.....

LBoz said:
You're a MUCH "more better" fishkeeper than me, Craig. Hmmm...that Might have something to do with why I've had several tanks crash over the years...ya think?

Lenny had asked about setups...most of my tanks were breeders, so not exactly decorative, but I threw a few photos in my profile album. My camera skillz suk, though.
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from what I've read, you have much more knowledge than I do.

My tanks were a close to natural as I could get them. No divers with bubbles coming out of their butts or anything, no ships or silly signs.
 
Cflaguy said:
from what I've read, you have much more knowledge than I do.

My tanks were a close to natural as I could get them. No divers with bubbles coming out of their butts or anything, no ships or silly signs.
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LOL! Yeah, I don't do the divers or anything either, but my little ones did insist on a Squidward statue in one of the endler tanks. :p

I don't know that I know all that much, but I was very lucky that when I moved here, I found the local fish club right away, and the president of it and his family became good friends of mine. He's got over a hundred tanks in his basement, so I frequently go over there and "oooh and ahhhh" over everything he's breeding. Most of my stock has come from him. I highly encourage anyone in the hobby to look for a club in their area. It's pretty much the same as snakes...the chains can't give you nearly the quality as buying directly from the breeder. (Except for Chip's store...locally owned and operated. Support your mom & pop stores!!)
 
Agreed....

LBoz said:
LOL! Yeah, I don't do the divers or anything either, but my little ones did insist on a Squidward statue in one of the endler tanks. :p

I don't know that I know all that much, but I was very lucky that when I moved here, I found the local fish club right away, and the president of it and his family became good friends of mine. He's got over a hundred tanks in his basement, so I frequently go over there and "oooh and ahhhh" over everything he's breeding. Most of my stock has come from him. I highly encourage anyone in the hobby to look for a club in their area. It's pretty much the same as snakes...the chains can't give you nearly the quality as buying directly from the breeder. (Except for Chip's store...locally owned and operated. Support your mom & pop stores!!)
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Mom & Pop for fish, preferably fish specialty stores.
I was always into the big fish. I got one of the first Tiger Shovelnose to hit the states. The owner of a store said, "Here take this home (for 8.99) and see how big it gets." It was four inches long and by 6 months was three feet long. I took it the Wooley Booger where the owner put her in a 125. He was doing inventory one night when he bumped against the tank spilling pizza crust. That fish ate it. It outgrew the 125 and lived her days out a donation to Sea World. When she died they asked if we wanted her. What would we do with her right? They let us come to see her before they chopped her up for feed. That fish was was almost 5ft long and weighed 50lbs.:eek1:
 
Holy Crap!!! I can't even imagine!

I love to *look* at the tank busters, but I've been pretty good so far in knowing my limitations. I'd LOVE to have a school of balas, but IMO they're one of those misunderstood, shouldn't be sold in chains, kinds of fish. If I were ever to go with a large tank, I'd definitely go with a school of clown loaches. They're by far my favorite tropicals.
 
I wont even carry pacu, most stores shouldn't. They are the Burmese pythons of the aquatics world: the general buying public is nowhere near equipped to care for one its entire life, and most of those who can would never want one. I've never even stocked oscars, though. There's a price point where animals become disposable from my view on things. A redtailed catfish is something I've bought for people twice, as well as (down the road) big cichlids -so no holier than thou song. I do carry zebra danios and white clouds for cycling fw tanks or for those wanting a pet under a dollar.
 
Pacu and Oscars can be a problem....

I agree they are like the Burmese. I think folks should be well versed in big fish before buying one on a whim.
Hey I live in Florida. You should see the stuff that gets hooked here. In Lake Monroe, part of the St. Johns River, a guy hooked a Pacu 3ft long and 3ft high weighing 36lbs....on a kane pole.
There are fish they don't allow here, the flesh eating pirahna, snakeheads, and my fav, the electric catfish. Any of those get established here and we're in trouble. Of course, there are people who have them.
 
LOL, I'm pretty simple when it comes to fish. I like tetras (preferably neons or cardinals) guppies and white clouds. But I guess my ideal tank is really more of a plant tank than a fish tank. I just like to throw something in that moves, lol. By far my favorite thing in the tank though are the little shrimp. Thanks for that link BTW Lori, I didn't even have a clue how many types there were.
Maybe my taste in fish has something to do with my noob status too. Guppies could be the 'gateway drug' that corn snakes are, LOL. My first choices were the cardinals though, but I don't think my tap water would be right for them, then I was thinking of the golden white clouds, but I knew I wanted shrimp and I understand the minnows want it way cooler than the shrimp do. Finally I went with the guppies. I figured at least I'd only have to buy a few.
 
tom e said:
LOL, I'm pretty simple when it comes to fish. I like tetras (preferably neons or cardinals) guppies and white clouds. But I guess my ideal tank is really more of a plant tank than a fish tank. I just like to throw something in that moves, lol. By far my favorite thing in the tank though are the little shrimp. Thanks for that link BTW Lori, I didn't even have a clue how many types there were.
Maybe my taste in fish has something to do with my noob status too. Guppies could be the 'gateway drug' that corn snakes are, LOL. My first choices were the cardinals though, but I don't think my tap water would be right for them, then I was thinking of the golden white clouds, but I knew I wanted shrimp and I understand the minnows want it way cooler than the shrimp do. Finally I went with the guppies. I figured at least I'd only have to buy a few.
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Nothing at all wrong with guppies. There are so many strains available now that they can really make a stunning display. I had my first tank when I was 9. Being a total noob, I put my guppies in with my cichlids. Talk about population control!!!

I think planted tanks are awesome and really take some research and skill to make it successful. Looks like you're off to a great start. I know a lot of people who are more about the plants than about the fish. Like snakes, the possibilities are endless. If you want something that schools tightly and cardinals don't work for your water, consider some rummy nose tetras. Very pretty, hearty and maintain their schooling behavior, even better than cards or danios IMO.
 
Ok, here's the pictures of the rescape. The left side is still pretty bare, but it's going to grow in. The main thing I changed was to group the plants together by kind rather than have them all mixed up where they are hidden behind the really fast growing rotala. (I THINK it's rotala anyway). I'll update as it grows in!

From right to left..
 
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