Proposal regarding hybrids / pure corns

[airenlow]

Carpe, got any pics of your collection?

 

[jkgeorge]

Defining a Species

A species is often defined as a group of individuals that actually or potentially interbreed in nature. In this sense, a species is the biggest gene pool possible under natural conditions.

Are we not also a part of nature?

Please define an unnatural condition.

 

[BloodyBaroness]

In fact, the very fact that we can breed them together proves that it is possible. Suppose two opposite sex corn snakes are dropped in california. Suppose that copulation is about to happen and then a hawk swoops down and eats one and a king happens to approach also ready and eager from a similar mishap. It could happen. Is it likely to happen is another story.

Utter crap. You are grasping for straws.

There is no biology researcher in the universe, or any regular person with half a brain that would buy into a theory so ridiculous.

That is beyond impossible and frankly, stupid.

 

[BloodyBaroness]

Please define an unnatural condition.

This thread. :grin01:

 

[beautifullywild77]

The king would more than likely consume the corn in the wild. In captivity, man has to manipulate the situation and tricked the two species into breeding. They will not breed together without man intervention.

Seriously Carpe, you talk in circles, regurge information without truly understanding things that you are repeating.

 

[bitsy]

Homo sapiens neanderthalensis versus Homo neanderthalensis would be just one example. Designations change and are artificial.

So the entire pure vs hybrid debate is irrelevant and this entire thread disappears in a puff of logic.

 

[beautifullywild77]

Carpe, got any pics of your collection?

I second this!

 

[BloodyBaroness]

I am eager to see some of the things discussed in the thread manifest, like DNA mapping, and some kind of additional support registry, along with guidelines for classifications. Those things are possible with time and money invested.

However, for you to tell me the system of Taxonomy is flawed, and a cockamamie hawk snatching mates from a displaced species is your reason why, you wonder why no one buys into your posts?

I challenge you to pitch that idea to any biology study in the nation and see how long it takes them to stop laughing.

Everyone is free to believe what they want in life, nothing wrong with that. Just remember, both sides get a say. "Freedom of speech" does not mean you get to say whatever you want without consequences. It simply means the government can't stop you from saying it. It also means OTHERS get to say what THEY think about your words.

 

[airenlow]

The government can't stop you...yet.

 

[BloodyBaroness]

The government can't stop you...yet.

Soon .

 

[Carpe Serpentis]

From your link:
Defining a Species

A species is often defined as a group of individuals that actually or potentially interbreed in nature. In this sense, a species is the biggest gene pool possible under natural conditions.

Corn snakes and cali king snakes do not "actually or potentially interbreed in nature"

I will give you another example that you can not deny as it actually does happen and has happened frequently enough to be documented. Corn snakes will breed with other snakes forming intergrades/hybrids with snakes that they share a border with. If one concedes that this is true and has happened since corns first evolved into what we label as corns and it is also true that other similar snakes corns have bred into also share borders with other snakes and form intergrades/hybrids as well then one can easily conclude that as long as this is possible and the landmass is a shared landmass that corn snake genes could and most probably have already found some small fragment of their dna into cali kings simply by this overlapping of territories and intergrades over the vast distance of land and time given enough time and if not they surely will. Is that proof enough that it is possible for corn hybrids however diluted to eventually make their way into a cali king?

 

[Carpe Serpentis]

No they can not. It is not plausible at all.

Same thing is true for Lampropeltis triangulum sinaloae and Elaphe guttata. They will never cross paths in nature.

The Berkeley study you linked proves your logic to be flawed.

Explain please?

 

[BloodyBaroness]

I will give you another example that you can not deny as it actually does happen and has happened frequently enough to be documented. Corn snakes will breed with other snakes forming intergrades/hybrids with snakes that they share a border with. If one concedes that this is true and has happened since corns first evolved into what we label as corns and it is also true that other similar snakes corns have bred into also share borders with other snakes and form intergrades/hybrids as well then one can easily conclude that as long as this is possible and the landmass is a shared landmass that corn snake genes could and most probably have already found some small fragment of their dna into cali kings simply by this overlapping of territories and intergrades over the vast distance of land and time given enough time and if not they surely will. Is that proof enough that it is possible for corn hybrids however diluted to eventually make their way into a cali king?

Have you even bothered to look up the geographical ranges?

Do you fathom how utterly impossible this is? Also, you said corn snake, not corn snake hybrid, so are you just going to keep changing your story until you get a grip on the straw at the bottom of the well?

Everyone reading this thread has a better chance of being stuck by a humming bird than this.

Don't break your arm grasping for that straw.... it's down there deep.

 

[Carpe Serpentis]

Wow .

Yeah, it blows my mind too when I stop and think about how wonderful life is and how things we take as being so concrete are really just our ways of trying to put everything into a nice little box so we can understand them better. To think that simple gene flow from one species to another happens and enables one species however diluted to travel clear across the continent amazes me. Reduced gene flow yes, but not total isolation. http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evosite/evo101/VCCausesSpeciation.shtml

 

[BloodyBaroness]

Explain please?

GEOGRAPHICAL RANGE.

From your link:
Defining a Species

A species is often defined as a group of individuals that actually or potentially interbreed in nature. In this sense, a species is the biggest gene pool possible under natural conditions.

Corn snakes and cali king snakes do not "actually or potentially interbreed in nature"

Lampropeltis triangulum sinaloae are sinaloan milk snakes, another common pet trade created hybrid that could never occur in nature.

Because why?

GEOGRAPHICAL RANGE.

 

[Carpe Serpentis]

Have you even bothered to look up the geographical ranges?

Do you fathom how utterly impossible this is? Also, you said corn snake, not corn snake hybrid, so are you just going to keep changing your story until you get a grip on the straw at the bottom of the well?

Everyone reading this thread has a better chance of being stuck by a humming bird than this.

Don't break your arm grasping for that straw.... it's down there deep.

Sarcasm however cutting it is meant to be does not suit you well nor does it get your point across any better. In fact, it tends to shut down communication and understand when you use sarcasm to belittle another's point of view or belief.

 

[airenlow]

Carp, got any pics of your hybirds?

 

[BloodyBaroness]

Sarcasm however cutting it is meant to be does not suit you well nor does it get your point across any better. In fact, it tends to shut down communication and understand when you use sarcasm to belittle another's point of view or belief.

You have not been able to grasp logical responses from other posters, so sarcasm was worth the try.

I honestly hoped you were joking with your wild hawk and cross country hybrid marathon, but I see you are not.

 

[Carpe Serpentis]

The bottom line is both of my proposals are possible and thats all they need to be for my logic to stand on firm footing. One of my proposals is not only possible, it has happened and why has it happened? Because we must concede that along geographical ranges hybrids do and have been formed since life first began. You don't have to like my logic, you don't have to agree with my beliefs.

 

[beautifullywild77]

So I can see certain species of rat snakes and corn snakes potentially breeding in the wild. However, your example of cali kings and corn snakes potentially breeding in the wild is like comparing apples to donuts (Thanks Heather, I like that analogy)