Random thought

[snakemom1961]

I also got rather sick of organized religion. I was brought up a christian and still have christian beliefs. Do I regularly read the bible? NOPE. Do I believe the bible is much more the stories? NOPE. Do I pray to God on occasion? YEP and will continue to.

I would never EVER try to pretend that the God I pray to is any better then the gods, totems, idols others believe in. If that makes me a non christian then that is your opinion. Atleast I can say I"m open minded enough to allow others to have their own beliefs and not try to force mine onto them.

 

[carol]

Lauren - I'm sorry that the service for your loved one went so badly. As a person who is of the faith you're so angry at, I truly am sorry.

Reading this thread has been "painful" for me. On one hand, we have this person apparently "Christian" making obnoxious and incendiary statements that leave himself AND his religion - which I share but in a completely different way than he does - a target of ridicule.

On the other - perhaps rightfully so - given the nature of the OP, we have folks - many whom I consider "friends" on this site - attacking a belief system that I happen to be a part of... a belief system that I would never brow beat someone with or foist upon anyone EVER.

I have so much more to say, but don't quite know how to word it and I hope I don't find myself regretting even making this post. I hope it is sufficient to say this... "Not everyone who shares the Christian faith is like or agrees with either the OP or the Pastor Lauren spoke of". I am a Christian who does not agree with the OP or the methods/sermon who did the service for Lauren's uncle. I try to be as open-minded as I can. I may not agree, but I do my best not to belittle the beliefs of others. I would hope for the same in return.

I've done my best to be careful how I worded this... Here goes...

I agree Fred. It's amazing to me that people are upset at one person and have pretty much turned to attacking religion. I am Christian. I don't believe in a firey hell. Hades is death, and "the dead are concious of nothing at all" according to my beliefs. But that is a whole different conversation.

It doesn't make much sense to see people here boost to be too enlightened and intellegent to believe in God but can't be enlightened or intellegent enough to not make sterotypical group bashings.

Does anyone realize how hypocritical it is to state how offensive it is to have religion shoved down their throats but then to turn around and shove anti-religous statements down mine? Stop and think about that random thought.

I believe in the golden rule, I do fail it often but try my best. I also believe that it is not my place to judge ANYONE. I might have my opinions about people but that is different than judging. I might not believe what some people are doing is right, but I can only hold myself to my own standard and what others do is none of my business. I figure if people want to know what I believe they will ask and I'd be happy to tell them and also tell them why. But I'm not going to force it on anyone. I'd like the same respect from those here that don't believe in God.

**Just a note, I do not agree with anything the OP has stated, but he is entitled to his opinion.

 

[SnakeAround]

I not talking down to women. I am married to one. Proverbs 31 and Titus chapter 2 give examples of godly women. I'm just merely stating historical facts and biblical truths.

The Bible ain't THE truth, it's YOUR TRUTH and many other people's truth, but definitely not mine. I can tolerate, mingle with and like religious people, of course also be friends with the ones I like more than average, if they understand that a religion is nothing but one of many, and that it is a believe and not the thruth. Nor should they keep telling me I go to hell for not believing, even though I'm a very kind and helpfull person if I can say so myself. I live by the Ten Commandments coincidentally just because my parents taught me what is good what is wrong, and I live by that. Treat people how you want to be treated, the only rule you need in life!

Would Christianity be the truth, than it would not be a religion, but science.

I really, really, really can't understand how your brain can fit all the religious stuff and reject everything else, to me people like you have lost all logic and ability to really think about what you were told. I consider you brainwashed. Of course you ain't going to discuss this logically, you won't be convinced that there is a possibility that your belief system might not be the only nor the only right one, so this is gonna be my only post directed at you in this thread, unless I can't withold myself to reply to what you are going to say in reply.

 

[grankin01]

Fred, Carol, and anyone else this may have touched the wrong way.

I just couldn't get into that attitude or follow a group of people with the proverbial holier-than-thou beliefs.

This was not directed at religion itself and I do not judge ANYONE. I have absolutely no right to do that. It was directed at those people who feel they need to convert everyone and those they cannot are a lost cause doomed to whatever hell they may believe in.

Sorry if it may have been misconstrued.

 

[Shiari]

Christianity in general I am perfectly fine with. My mom is christian; she doesn't believe I'm going to hell just because I'm *not*.

But there is a particular brand of christianity that gets me up in arms, and I *will* attack the version of christianity that individual ascribes to (hence the video about the loving psychopath) if they begin condemning me.

And it all started with my aunt. She lived in Florida at the time, and had a single home-schooled child whom she never allowed to play with other children for fear that he'd be turned from God. She came to visit once, when I was 11 years old and her son was 5. My mom, of course, wanted to visit with her sister so went over to my grandmother's, where my aunt was staying, every day for a good 6 to 8 hours at a time.

For the first three days, I spent the entire time playing with her socially inept and spoiled son. I was kind. I was patient. I didn't argue with him.

But on the fourth day, I was tired of dealing with him. I brought a book. I told him I didn't want to play with him just then, and I went up into the loft to read as he couldn't climb the ladder.

About 10 minutes later, I hear people walking underneath the loft. It was my aunt and my grandmother. They didn't know I was up there. I got to listen to an incredible diatribe about how I was the daughter of satan and destined to burn in hell and how could they raise me like that.

Because I didn't want to play with her ill brought up son for a fourth day. For that I worthy of the worst pain a human being can experience. For eternity.

That was the day I first began to question christianity as *my* religious path. "How can I be part of this? How can I condone such treatment of anyone? Why does anyone have to go to hell at all?"

Listening to that rant made me feel so horrible and so worthless that I refuse to countenance such a thing when faced with it. I refuse to sit by and let someone tell me I deserve hell for not believing. I do not believe that any deity, if one exists, would act so like a 5 year old denied a candy bar at the store.

 

[grankin01]

Shiari, those are the ones that don't realize they are pushing people away from their religion instead of spreading the good word. Those are the type I was referring to.

 

[Rich Z]

@Richard, God creates souls and bodies. I am not aware of any scripture where a soul awaits a body outside of Christ.

Well if souls are immortal there either has to be a fixed number of them, or an infinite number already created planning for an infinite number of bodies to inhabit. Assuming God planned the soul creation in advance, of course. However, if those souls are "created upon demand", as needed, and then immortal, if there is a global catastrophe reducing the world's population to a fraction of what it is now, then do souls get recycled, but await in limbo till there is a new host available? Or are new souls created with every birth of a body and those souls never inhabit another body again?

Not for sure how heavily inbred we are now. God allowed it for a while but, in Leviticus he stops it and commands that no one lay down with mother, brother, and sister and so on.

If we all originated from Adam and Eve, we are all HEAVILY inbred. By definition, it can be no other way. Even Adam and Eve were related, were they not? It doesn't matter what other human being another mates with, we are inbred. And if inbreeding is proven to be detrimental to living organisms, what does that say about us as a race?

God is omniopotent, omniscient, and omnipresent. Thus furfilling the word sovreign.

Ah, I see. So tell me, then. Can God create a rock that is so heavy that even he cannot lift it?

I find it very comforting that Christ is in control. If man were in control it would be an awful place. I know on will say this place is pretty awful now but trust me if God did not intervene by weather, using other people, and sometimes the super natural we would have already destroyed our selves.

Hmm, but wasn't man create in God's image? Are we not copies, in all ways, of what God is? Couldn't God have created us BETTER than we are?

 

[carol]

I *will* attack the version of christianity that individual ascribes to (hence the video about the psychopath) if they begin condemning me.

Megan, you know I love you, but isn't that just participating in the very thing you claim to be fighting?

 

[Shiari]

If we all originated from Adam and Eve, we are all HEAVILY inbred. By definition, it can be no other way. Even Adam and Eve were related, were they not? It doesn't matter what other human being another mates with, we are inbred. And if inbreeding is proven to be detrimental to living organisms, what does that say about us as a race?

Actually it's worse than that, Rich. If we take genesis literally, then not only do we have the inbreeding from Adam and Eve... but Noah's family thanks to the flood that destroyed the rest of humanity.

We've bottle-necked twice.

 

[Rich Z]

Actually it's worse than that, Rich. If we take genesis literally, then not only do we have the inbreeding from Adam and Eve... but Noah's family thanks to the flood that destroyed the rest of humanity.

We've bottle-necked twice.

Well, at least I have a good excuse for every dumb thing I do. I can just say "Hey, I'm inbred! What do you expect?" :roflmao:

 

[Shiari]

Megan, you know I love you, but isn't that just participating in the very thing you claim to be fighting?

I'm not a turn the other cheek type. Too many times when I've tried to be nice, I just get cornered and proselytized to. Or chased across campus and proselytized at. That was an entertaining one.

Think of me as like a skunk. I'll give warnings, but if someone keeps poking me with hell, I'll turn around and make a huge stink. XD

And I'm not condemning the person, but their attitude. Though I can see why some would see that as the same thing. But here's the key. My condemnation is a very human, and thus limited in power, condemnation. The condemnation I condemn in turn claims to have the backing of an omnipotent God who loves me enough to light me on fire.

 

[Hypancistrus]

Lauren - I'm sorry that the service for your loved one went so badly. As a person who is of the faith you're so angry at, I truly am sorry.

Fred, don't get me wrong... 90% of my family are believing Christians, and I fully support their right to believe and practice whatever religion they want to practice... but too much, lately, we've been seeing the evidence of extremists of ALL religions (in particular Christianity and Islam) wreaking havoc on the world around them and the lives of innocent people living in that world. It gets old.

I don't care what anyone does on their own time, in the comfort of their home, vehicle, whatever. I don't even care that I am visited weekly by people knocking on my door, wanting me to come to their church. If that's how they want to spend their time, whatever, it's cool-- I just don't answer or if I am outside politely tell them I am not interested.

But when someone starts to force their religion down my throat, by using it as an excuse to make laws that infringe upon the rights of thousands of Americans and their families.... when they use their religion to justify the slaughter of thousands of innocent people across the globe... that's when it starts to become problematic.

I fully realize that 99% of Christians (and probably the same number of Islamics) are decent, hard-working people who just want to live their lives by their own faith. But it's long past time for them to "put a leash" on their out of control brethren-- time for all the peaceful Christians and Muslims to say "Hey, you're out of line," to the nutters that are blowing things up and using their religion as a battering ram to force through oppressive laws.

 

[Dreamsnake]

When I was in the second grade my public school teacher told me I was going to hell. That was my first taste of Christianity as I was raised in an evolution and science environment. We celebrated Christmas and I heard several New Testament as well as Old Testament stories as well as fairy tales, Greek/Roman myths, and Celtic folklore. I was amazed to discover that some of these stories were taken to be fact, but others weren't and wondered why the so called "True Believers" got so angry with me for questioning. But to tell a seven year old child that she is going to hell is monstrous. Much of the time religion is used to condemn not to uplift, so I will not raise my sons in any particular belief structure. They will not be any less crazy then the average American kid.

I, however, choose to believe in fairies. I can have my own ethereal friends and I'm not hurting anyone. I will never knock on anyone's door and ask; "What have the fairies done for you today?" No matter how tempted I am to try that just once and see what reaction I generate.

 

[grankin01]

Tinkerbell's witnesses.

As far as your teacher ... WOW, just ... WOW!

That would find me an ANGRY daddy at my daughter's school. NOT COOL!

 

[Dreamsnake]

Tinkerbell's witnesses.

As far as your teacher ... WOW, just ... WOW!

I was asking questions, nothing more, and she took me into the hall and told me I was going to hell. My parents put me in a private school after the next year.

 

[Darcpixie]

Carol, Fred, Outcast, et al.

That's the thing. Vagaries of the english language prevent us from succinctly separating people similar to Lavender in belief and scope and type from those who are NOT of that particular bent.

All that we are left with is to determine if THIS person has crossed the line, and try to explain why.

Are their beliefs one of the reasons we have singled them out? Indeed. Is it easy to separate everyone that is not included in that group with the only titles we have to describe them? No, not at all.

You've heard our issues with this variety of conversation. How would you suggest we communicate our beliefs without spending 90% of it carefully delineating where we stand?

I understand the frustration with being *lumped into* a group with someone that many of you have clearly expressed that your commonalities are NOT on the same page, ie, that HIS Christianity is not YOUR Christianity. But how else should we go about it.

Just a thought.

 

[grankin01]

I was asking questions, nothing more, and she took me into the hall and told me I was going to hell. My parents put me in a private school after the next year.

That's horrible! Part of learning is asking questions. I hope she was summarily dismissed from teaching. :grabbit:

 

[Dreamsnake]

^^I have no idea. My parents are Lutheran now. Even though they still believe in evolution, they found that they can accept science and religion. Possibly someday I will have that sort of relationship with a church, but for now I enjoy my small elementals in a wide universe of possibilities.

There are magnetic bubbles in space; isn't that fascinating?

 

[grankin01]

Very interesting! I like String theory and entanglement. Both are very interesting topics to read on (although honestly its been quite a while since I have sat and read on them).

 

[MysticExotics]

When I was in the second grade my public school teacher told me I was going to hell. That was my first taste of Christianity as I was raised in an evolution and science environment. We celebrated Christmas and I heard several New Testament as well as Old Testament stories as well as fairy tales, Greek/Roman myths, and Celtic folklore. I was amazed to discover that some of these stories were taken to be fact, but others weren't and wondered why the so called "True Believers" got so angry with me for questioning. But to tell a seven year old child that she is going to hell is monstrous. Much of the time religion is used to condemn not to uplift, so I will not raise my sons in any particular belief structure. They will not be any less crazy then the average American kid.

I, however, choose to believe in fairies. I can have my own ethereal friends and I'm not hurting anyone. I will never knock on anyone's door and ask; "What have the fairies done for you today?" No matter how tempted I am to try that just once and see what reaction I generate.

I am sorry to hear that you had such a bad experience as a child.

I mean no disrepect when I say this, but who's to say that the bible is "truth", & that the stories labled as myths & folklore are not true? People believe those stories as Christians believe the bible is true.

I believe in a number Gods & Goddesses.
I believe that there are many beings around us, including fairies.
My chosen religion is nature based. It's more spiritual, than an organized religion. That is who I am. That is the path I chose to follow.
I am not "going to hell" because of my beliefs.
I do not worship satan. A common misconception about Paganism/Wicca, etc is that we're devil worshipers. We are not. The devil/satan, is a Christian deity, "he" has no place in Paganism.
Have you seen Practical Magic? "There's no devil in the Craft".
Satanists are a branch of Christians, they just chose to worship Satan, instead of the Christian God.

I do not base my opinion of anyone on who/how they chose to worship, or not worship. My opinions are based on how people treat others.

There are "good & bad" of any religion, people that due to their actions, give that religion a bad image.

Yes, religious (& political) topics often get pretty heated. Yes, there is also some conflict in this thread, but if you sit back & look, I see a number of people that are open minded & accepting of other people's views, & the general attitude (for the most part) towards each other is pretty good, considering the topic.

Thank you, to those that have stepped forward saying that as Christians, you do not share the mindset of the OP. I for one, do appreciate it!