Random thought

[Rich Z]

I just don't see why it irks people so badly. I do not believe in hellfire. I have been told plenty of times I am going to burn in hell. I don't believe it is true and hence it rolls off my back like many other things I don't agree with. :shrugs:

I've never really understood that concept neither.

If we assume there is a hell, and it is run by the devil, why would he punish those people sent to him for doing his work on Earth?

 

[Nanci]

Good point.

 

[Lavender]

One thing I can say since catching up after work is that all of us here, are social and religous creatures. I know some will disagree but I've been gone for 12hrs and yall have had some venting and even healing it seems. Richard the rock creation thing is age old athiest circular argument thing that I don't have the time or interest to address. But you are on to something with a certain number of souls. From the time of Pentacost, when the epistles start. If any one has a bible and wants to check you will see that all the epistles stat with words simular like, to the elect, to the church, to the called out ones, to the bretheren. So you see Luke, Paul, Peter, and John all had a target audience. So if one finds the epistles hard to understand, pejudice, or sexist you have to understand they were giving instruction to the elect on how to properly run new testament church.

 

[MysticExotics]

LOL!

I once scared Connie's mom pretty badly. She lives near a farm in Delaware and they had an old rundown shack in the back. It was well known to me that she would kill the black rat snakes she found around there. Well, one day we were visiting and of course I'm poking around looking for snakes. And sure enough I found a fully opaque black rat snake laying under some boards. I had an idea, so I took the snake and brought it to Connie's mom. Obviously she had never seen a snake looking like that and asked what it was. I told her it's a ghost of one of the snakes she had killed. Her eyes got as wide as saucers.... :rofl:

I did tell her later what it really is, but I really don't think she believed the second explanation.

In any event, I don't think she kills snakes any longer...

LOL!! That's priceless!

 

[dave partington]

One thing I can say since catching up after work is that all of us here, are social and religous creatures. I know some will disagree but I've been gone for 12hrs and yall have had some venting and even healing it seems. Richard the rock creation thing is age old athiest circular argument thing that I don't have the time or interest to address. But you are on to something with a certain number of souls. From the time of Pentacost, when the epistles start. If any one has a bible and wants to check you will see that all the epistles stat with words simular like, to the elect, to the church, to the called out ones, to the bretheren. So you see Luke, Paul, Peter, and John all had a target audience. So if one finds the epistles hard to understand, pejudice, or sexist you have to understand they were giving instruction to the elect on how to properly run new testament church.

Hi Lavender-
I suspected you had a life outside of this site.
You started the thread with a single passage from The Book.
and were replied to with some not so nice images (on a site sometimes used by children).
I can understand how you may have felt confronted, and thus replied with another passage. You maintained your dignity. Showed us a bit of what lays behind the curtain. Showed us how you get through confrontation.
And then you were confronted some more.
This is not how I would treat the new guy at work, a new neighbor, or a new person at the place of spiritual worship/ritual/etc-
I must say, I admire the strong spiritual foundation which gets you through adversity, and, I speculate, true crisis without compromising your integrity.
I am curious, was it your intent for this thread to be about what it has become, or was it originally intended to go another way?
Thanks for sharing.
Respectfully, dp

 

[grankin01]

I knew you had a life outside of the forum too. It was just some of the comments made before your absence. If I was wrong about stirring the pot I do apologize. I didn't hold a grudge I just wanted to understand your point and you to understand ours. I'm not begrudging you an opinion or a belief but some things are better left unsaid in any situation.

I can let bygones be bygones and start over as I am sure many others on here can.

 

[Lavender]

Thank yall. Some of my origianl intent was to simply mingle and get to know folks while I shared some of my conviction. What lead me to this is the confrontation with moderators about improper posting. I'm going to walk soflty here. I was told if I had "first evers" that I needed to get them plastered every where before someone else had a clutch then mine would not be "first evers" When the tesseras were born with out the tesselated pattern I though I just had a striped corn. After checking with the expert he told not to fret that the snaked I has were actually more rare than regular tesseras. So my wife and I's excitement was through the roof. So my coming here and posting away originally was part of my joy of producing this stuff only 3 years into the hobby. I came fast and excited and apologize for breaking any rules. Being a rookie in this hobby, I am ignorant at shipping snakes. I realize the only serious inquiries are probably gonna come from far away places. So, I am not fed ex certified, I've never had "first evers" before and I'm not 100% ready to put any thing in the classifieds. I am how ever trying to get all my ducks in a row. In the mean time I am getting to know you guys. I hope that was not too much business talk.

 

[Tara80]

LOL, Well Said Mr. Lavender.

 

[Hypancistrus]

A big difference I don't go around telling people if you don't believe in my deity you will burn in hell. I don't condemn anyones belief or non belief with eternal damnation. I don't tell someone they are more or less then me because of their sex, sexuality, race, station in life...
The OP would have his 'mama' burn in the fire of hell, what does that say.

Exactly.

I have seen plenty of people voice that. I have no control over extremists any more than you, as an animal lover, have control over PETA. In a similar fashion, linking a religious person with extremists is like linking animal lovers to PETA. It would make you mad wouldn't it?

Ah, but Carol, I DO denounce them. I DO argue against them and their work when they are brought up, even if it means losing a friend. When people try to put PETA into my camp, I educate them. And really, a better comparison would be to point out the difference between responsible snake keepers like most of us here, and people who keep snakes for less noble reasons-- to impress friends, etc. The people who aren't feeding our housing correctly... who keep illegal animals. When those people come here, do we say something to them, or do we duck our heads and say "It's not my problem-- I don't believe what they do, and I don't act like they do, so I am seperate from them." No-- we say something! Because we realize that what THEY do reflects on us all. Likewise, what extremist Christians do reflects on you all.

Some of you have spoken out against this persons beliefs on this thread, amongst friends... but how many would chose to denounce their pastor if he spoke words of hatred against gays or any other minority class? Not so many.

Too many times I see Christian's taking up for other Christians who spew hate. Too many times I see people voting to deny civil rights because some Christian minister spouting hate on the TV says it ought to be so. It gets old, quick. The religious right says jump, and all its followers say "How high, sir?"

It's not something you can really understand unless you've lived through it, experienced it, and felt thatanguish and anger when you realize that this person you are talking to thinks that you are, and should be, a second class citizen because of who you are and how you were born. To know that it is religion that continues to encourage these injustices makes it nearly intolerable.

I don't trouble myself with semantics when debating with a person who feels the way the OP does. If it offends or hurts the sensibilities of others... well, welcome to my life.

 

[The_Thunderer]

Then, in a very real sense, Lauren, you are displaying actions no better than those you are "fighting against". They "hate and attack" you... and you "hate and attack" them. They want to take away your "rights" and then you want to take away their "rights" as well.

The cycle continues in perpetuity.

The thing is, you are not the only one who has experienced hatred. I have too. You don't know me. You don't know the struggles I've had to face. But, since it is different from yours, it MUST be a lesser struggle than your own, relegating me to second class citizenship that you so loudly detest. No, I cannot claim to "understand" your struggle/fight as much as you - I haven't walked in your shoes. BUT, neither can you claim the same of me for you haven't walked in mine.

That's fine. You too are entitled to your opinion and beliefs and method of fighting for your rights. Just realize that there are those that are trying to work within their own sides ON both sides that you're fighting against too.

It is the extremists on both sides that continue the conflict and make it impossible for those of us who just want to live and let live make any headway in the struggle.

 

[Shiari]

Then, in a very real sense, Lauren, you are displaying actions no better than those you are "fighting against". They "hate and attack" you... and you "hate and attack" them. They want to take away your "rights" and then you want to take away their "rights" as well.

See, there's a difference. Your rights end where mine begin. There are people who want to take away, or outright deny *real* rights.

I cannot make anyone stop believing in their chosen deity. But there are people who ARE making it so that people can't get access to abortions even to save the woman's life, or so that people who love each other cannot get married.

When crazy lady across the street came over to scream at me when I first got my dog, was I to go "You're right. It was inconsiderate of me to get a dog without telling you as you don't believe I will prevent him from barking all day nor clean up after him. I'll just go give him back right now." Or was I to "attack" her back for attacking me without just provocation?

THAT is the sort of attack many people are fighting right now. "I don't like you because you are YOU, so I'm going to deny you rights!" Are they really supposed to sit there and not fight? To accept that, to not challenge that abysmal attitude is to condone it.

That's why I fight when people tell me I'm going to hell. Or that I'm just a woman, so what do I know. I will not sit by and let someone tell me that I am so horrible that I deserve eternal torment. It's bigoted. It's dismissive. It's dehumanising.


Try to imagine it like this. You come face to face with someone, and they say the following:

You're stupid.
You're evil.
You deserve pain.
No one loves you.
You don't deserve happiness.

Okay, fine, you can walk away. But when you go to walk away, there's another person behind you who takes up the litany. You keep walking. Every half-mile or so, you encounter another one. They follow you for a ways. Much of your day is spent listening to comments that are belittling you.

Are you truly trying to say that you would *never* lose patience with this and eventually tell them to shut up and leave you alone? Not that they listen...

I was well and truly NOT joking that I got chased across my college campus by proselytizers after I politely told them that I had been christian, but was now pagan and much happier, and I would like to now continue reading my book thankyou. They wouldn't leave, and wouldn't stop telling me that immortal soul was in peril so I got up and walked away. And they followed, still nattering. I started jogging. So did they. I only escaped them once I got to my dorm as they knew they were not allowed in the building.

My usual online conversation goes something like this:

"I'm Christian and God is the One."
"I'm agnostic, but don't really see any proof for any deities." -- This is sharing a belief set, since a belief set was shared.
"Here's proof of God!"
"Anecdotal, and explainable by science."
"You are going to rot in hell, the bible says so!"


It gets old and I am no saint.

 

[Outcast]

No, I don't think I have a religion of some form, I don't incorporate any religious ritual or way of thinking in my life, I just believe in my capabilities, in what I can and should do and should not do to hopefully live a good life without hurting people and enjoy it most of the time myself. I hope people don't see me as forcing my beliefs onto others, since I don't believe, I reason, because I know enough facts to see evolution as the truth and reject the idea of an omnipotent being having created this all, especially when it would be done in six days. Neither can I really fit the idea of eternal souls into the scientifical world I know. But IMO logic and fanatic Christianity don't mingle very well so there is nou use disussing it, but both sides should respect each oher and let be.

Evolution is a belief. That does get thrown down the throat of Christians everywhere, at almost every turn. I just happen to be one of the Christians that believe that God is the beginning, and the first Scientist, and used Evolution as His tool.

As my Sociology professor once said. "The Big Bang theory, explains everything about how the universe came into existence. Except for one thing, and the only thing that explains that is, 'And God said, Let there be light.'"

What does throw me off my feet a bit however is a certain Scottish medium who really seems to be able to speak with dead people, my logic tells me his show can't be fake beacuse of all the details he knows of multiple people and their family and houses and such in one show. If all those guests would be working with him to set up a fake show for many seasons, sooner or later the audience would find out, I'm pretty sure of that. It has occured with a fake show by someone else, it was gone halfway the season. Anyway, because of that medium I cannot but believe logically that the soul does remain after death, and they meet up with beloved ones and guard their family and friends that are still alive. So how about that; I reasoned myself into believing something I can't understand... when I realised that I really had to give it a place.

This sounds a lot like Humanism. Which is a belief system, and can be called a religion.

hu·man·ism/ˈ(h)yo͞oməˌnizəm/Noun
1. An outlook or system of thought attaching prime importance to human rather than divine or supernatural matters.
2. A Renaissance cultural movement that turned away from medieval scholasticism and revived interest in ancient Greek and Roman thought.

 

[Shiari]

Evolution is a belief.

No, evolution is a fact. It has been observed. It is seen in the fossil record. The *theory* of evolution is the best explanation we currently have for *how* things evolve. That they evolve is factually true.

As my Sociology professor once said. "The Big Bang theory, explains everything about how the universe came into existence. Except for one thing, and the only thing that explains that is, 'And God said, Let there be light.'"

This... makes no sense.

This sounds a lot like Humanism. Which is a belief system, and can be called a religion.

Nope.

re·li·gion
   /rɪˈlɪdʒən/ Show Spelled[ri-lij-uhn] Show IPA
–noun
1.
a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2.
a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3.
the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.

Humanism does not deal with the cause, nature or purpose of the universe. It does not involve a supernatural entity. "Maybe we should focus on people rather than gods" does not create a specific and fundamental set of beliefs and practices (dogma).

 

[Outcast]

Many people worship at many alters. Be it the alter of Science, God, gods/goddess's, or the human being... I am sure I missed some. But, beliefs are beliefs. Religion does not have to be organized. I have met people that worship at the alter of evolution. I have met people that worship at the alter of humans.

Evolution may be a fact. I choose to believe that it is a tool used to progress the earth farther and farther along. I do believe that evolution happens. But, instead of believing that it is just something random, I believe that it behaves as it is designed to.

If you would like me to explain my sociology professor's analogy.
We were talking about how the universe was created. And, his point, was that Science could explain everything that we see and feel today. And Science could explain everything in the history of the universe, except one thing. What made that small, extremely dense object to explode, creating the universe as we know it? In his studies, the only thing that he could figure out was a verse from the Bible.

On a side note, he is a man that has studied and worshiped at the alter of most religions, be it Christian, Islam, Hindu, Buddhist, or Science (I know I missed some religions/beliefs that he has studied). He believes that all religions are a pathway to the right place.

I hope it makes a little more sense.

 

[starsevol]

I believe in evolution, because it is something we can see everyday.
The squirrels in Canada are black. Why? Because a darker coat retains heat and keeps them warmer.
Bacteria grows resistant to antibiotics.
Insects grow resistant to pesticides over time.
These little adaptations are really evolution at work.

But then..where did life ever come from in the first place?
Any life at all, even in its smallest form, is a true miracle.
How did life come from rock, water and air?
How does something alive just happen out of nowhere?

 

[Shiari]

You believe in evolution. Do you believe in vaccines? Your computer? Your snakes? I don't believe in evolution, because it is a fact. Just as my desk is a fact, and that I have to go in to work today on my day off is a fact. As for worshiping science: People do not ask science to help them win the lottery. Or to receive guidance from dear dead aunt Lucy.

I love science because it asks questions... and even if it doesn't have the answer yet, it keeps looking for it! How exciting, all this stuff to learn.



As to what made "it" explode:

There are actually many many ideas on how it happened. Whether it was two other universes colliding and thus spawning a new one "the brane hypothesis", or even just simple physics.

 

[Shiari]

But then..where did life ever come from in the first place?
Any life at all, even in its smallest form, is a true miracle.
How did life come from rock, water and air?
How does something alive just happen out of nowhere?

 

[grankin01]

Shiari, and anyone else who is interested, here is a rather interesting read. I would have to brush up because it has been forever since I have read on String Theory but I do agree with a lot of its theories/mathematical facts. BTW, it includes a description of Brane theory.

Quantum Mechanics is a VERY interesting corner of our science community. Einstien spent much of his life and mathematical work trying to disprove it's existence and ended up contributing to it quite a bit.

Anyway, enjoy the read.

 

[starsevol]

Megan, you don't have to be confrontational towards ME!! I am not against you.....

 

[Shiari]

Megan, you don't have to be confrontational towards ME!! I am not against you.....

I wasn't intending to be confrontational. You asked questions, and I love this guy's "for the classroom, science made easy" series. I re-watch it regularly. He has ones that are are... not classroom friendly, so I even made sure to link the one *without* the anti-religion mockery.

So... since you asked... I provided a video with some possible answers. ;_;