Rumor I heard about Tesseras (sp?)

[carnivorouszoo]

I am on a hybrid forum because I have what I believe to be a jungle corn. Well I was reading some neat new posts and came across a rumor being tossed around that Tesseras are hybrids of corns with some kind of king but not cali. They showed pics of this hybrid and I have to admit the resemblence was astonishing! I just wonder if there could be any truth to this at all as I know nothing about this morph of corn. Please educate me so I can correct them if necessary!

 

[Teddy Roosevelt]

Could be. They'd be the prettiest hybrids out there, if they were.

 

[zorro]

Do you mind showing us where you saw that? I own a couple and this is the first I have heard of that. You have most likely seen this thread but this is the story on the history of the Tesseras by KJ (KJUN) but here is the edress:

http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70946

John

 

[UniqueSnakes]

I've never been a big fan of tesseros or whatever they call..if they are, don't really care....but can you show us or give us a link?? I still want to see pics!!!.

 

[Shiari]

I've seen one king hybrid that looks like a tessera. On that note, however, so do garter snakes. It's a gene set that happens across multiple species, so I'm not surprised it would pop up in corns. The fact that it is dominant suggests it is not the result of hybridization.

 

[Tara80]

I have talked to Soderberg at length about the Tessera and according to him, he found the guy that originally 'produced' them and found that they originated from an Okeetee and (I think) a stripe of some morph but I can't remember what specifically. Which makes sense as they look very 'Okeetee' to me.
I can say, I have a Tessera and he looks 100% corn- head shape, pattern, etc.

 

[mxm1973]

This is something to think about
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86596&highlight=slangenbroed

 

[Kokopelli]

Personally I am of the belief that eventually, anyone who works with morphs may at some point introduce genes into his collection that may originate from another species... I think that it is inevitable. I am not saying that the Tesseras are hybrids... but it may have happened with some morph in the past, or may happen in the future... question is, why does it matter that much?

the corns continue to act as corns as far as I can tell, and they live up to the same purpose- being a unique, docile and easy to care for pet.

These animals are -not- likely to survive natural selection... and we keep setting corns and other snakes more and more apart from their natural counterparts... so you can't really say that when one deals with morphs, one does so in order to preserve anything.

If indeed the gene pool has already been "breached"- it is now too late, and really- I fail to see the all dreaded impact. I don't like hybriding much because of the unexpected results which can cause suffering on the animal... but once it has already done... not at my request or by my action... I think it all becomes irrelevant.

I feel that breeders who really wish to preserve- do not breed morphs, but localities only... there too is a problem because they breed what's nice on the eyes, rather than letting natural selection do what it does best.

All in all... I think that there's too much panic over the idea... and IMHO, even the worse case scenario is quite meaningless.

 

[carnivorouszoo]

http://www.hybridherps.com/forum/index.php?topic=171.0

The 15th post the guy sayas: "This looks so much like the "Tessera Cornsnakes". I wonder if the "Tessera" gene is just the cal king stripe gene. Did the stripe in these snakes come from the cal king side or the corn side?"

Oh, I guess he was talking cali king I thought he said a different kind. :shrugs: Still asking if its a hybrid.

Personally I LIKE hybrids and plan to breed some on purpose. I just wanted to know. I know someone posted a link to something on here that explains the tessera gene. I will go look at it now.

 

[StrangeCargo]

Just to clear everything up: TESSERAS ARE NOT HYBRIDS (period).... there is alot of incorrect information posted on the internet (about EVERY subject) by ill informed people. (There are RUMORS that someone has made Tessera creamsicles- Tessera X creamsicle- but I haven't seen pics of them or info on 'em.

Something for the hybrid forum people (it requires BASIC knowledge of genetics)- Think about how the Tessera gene works- You breed a Tessera to ANY corn and ~1/2 of the clutch comes out Tesseras in first generation.

I have the history posted on my website...Don S has the info/history on his site... and KJ posted a great write up about the history here on cs.com.

Hope that helps.
Graham

 

[Tara80]

Just to clear everything up: TESSERAS ARE NOT HYBRIDS (period).... there is alot of incorrect information posted on the internet (about EVERY subject) by ill informed people. (There are RUMORS that someone has made Tessera creamsicles- Tessera X creamsicle- but I haven't seen pics of them or info on 'em.

Something for the hybrid forum people (it requires BASIC knowledge of genetics)- Think about how the Tessera gene works- You breed a Tessera to ANY corn and ~1/2 of the clutch comes out Tesseras in first generation.

I have the history posted on my website...Don S has the info/history on his site... and KJ posted a great write up about the history here on cs.com.

Hope that helps.
Graham

THANK YOU Graham:cheers:

 

[TandJ]

IF its implied that the tessera is a hybrid with a king, I don't see.. I think the person was speculating and nothing more..

Just to clear everything up: TESSERAS ARE NOT HYBRIDS (period).... there is alot of incorrect information posted on the internet (about EVERY subject) by ill informed people. (There are RUMORS that someone has made Tessera creamsicles- Tessera X creamsicle- but I haven't seen pics of them or info on 'em.

We can't prove it out anyways with the means available to us.. Thats what some genetic expert told me years ago, and thats what Brand X big breeder said on another public forum... I think what a lot of people need to realize there is no sure fire way we can say yes or no, unless we WC them ourselves, were there is a less a chance for intergrades to actually take place.. I can't go out on a limb and say that most of my corns are pure, when its so tough to prove anyways.. At least from a breeder like me, I am going to tell you with the best of knowledge and ability of what I was lead to believe is involved...

 

[zorro]

THANK YOU Graham:cheers:

I second that, thanks buddy for that.

I hadn't heard the one about the Tesseras resembling non-mutant kings, but I heard that all striped corns are ribbon snake hybrids. Or was it that all striped corns are yellow ratsnake hybrids? Did motley boas originate from motley corns? Did albino black rats get their albino mutation from corns? Could a black rat really be a hybrid black pine? These rumors are so realistic, we should examine other species also. What about white-sided blood pythons. Were those made from hybridizing with white-sided bulls or black rats? If we're going to claim that simply because one snake resembles another, they must be hybrids of each other, let's at least not say one species is recessively inherited while the other is non-recessive.

Again Thanks Graham,
John

 

[TandJ]

Depends what the smoke and mirrors bring about.. There is no one here that can prove without a doubt that it is or isn't a hybrid.. I don't really care eithier, its just that we know there is no damn way to prove it other wise..

Regards.. Tim of T and J

 

[abell82]

:roflmao:

Just to clear everything up: TESSERAS ARE NOT HYBRIDS (period).... Something for the hybrid forum people (it requires BASIC knowledge of genetics)- Think about how the Tessera gene works- You breed a Tessera to ANY corn and ~1/2 of the clutch comes out Tesseras in first generation.

I have the history posted on my website...Don S has the info/history on his site... and KJ posted a great write up about the history here on cs.com.

Hope that helps.
Graham

Wow!! your charging 1200+ for these snakes, and only half the first clutch will be Tesseras? I can get a jungle for 100.00-200.00 and ALL of it's first clutch will be jungles, or supercorns depending on you pov. :roflmao:

What happens if I breed a Tessera to a King, or Bull or? Will I get Tesseras?
What would it prove if someone did? Nothing! Only that it is dominant to spotted. You really can't PROVE it is not a HYBRID. But, no one can prove, (right now) that it is, either.

Why fight it? Take a page from Hollywood... any publicity is good publicity!
Marked it for what it is. A dominant stripe gene, and leave it at that.

 

[Camby]

I am on a hybrid forum because I have what I believe to be a jungle corn. Well I was reading some neat new posts and came across a rumor being tossed around that Tesseras are hybrids of corns with some kind of king but not cali. They showed pics of this hybrid and I have to admit the resemblence was astonishing! I just wonder if there could be any truth to this at all as I know nothing about this morph of corn. Please educate me so I can correct them if necessary!

Tessera is a dominate gene, to my knowledge NO form of striping in kings is dominate. To date several NA Kings have been hybridized with corns and we haven't seen a dominate trait. SO, no matter what the article is you were reading, it doesn't fit with this morph.

I've seen one king hybrid that looks like a tessera. On that note, however, so do garter snakes. It's a gene set that happens across multiple species, so I'm not surprised it would pop up in corns. The fact that it is dominant suggests it is not the result of hybridization.

Good points. They are not terribly popular so they do not receive much recognition, but robbons, garters and other such snakes have developed a "tessarish" pattern in the wild and they have proven to be very succesful. SO, it shouldn't be all that suprising this look has turned up in corns.

http://www.hybridherps.com/forum/index.php?topic=171.0

The 15th post the guy sayas: "This looks so much like the "Tessera Cornsnakes". I wonder if the "Tessera" gene is just the cal king stripe gene. Did the stripe in these snakes come from the cal king side or the corn side?"

Oh, I guess he was talking cali king I thought he said a different kind. :shrugs: Still asking if its a hybrid.

Personally I LIKE hybrids and plan to breed some on purpose. I just wanted to know. I know someone posted a link to something on here that explains the tessera gene. I will go look at it now.

See above, the stripe gene in CALIFORNIA (I hate "Cali King") is not dominate with corns, it has been around for nearly 20 years or more now. Just because something resembles something else doesn't suggest it is in the mix of that animal. Much like a red 78 Ford Pinto zooming by my house at 125 may superficially look like a Red Posrche whizing by at 125, they are not the same.

I really have no major dog in this fight, I just find it odd that every

dc

 

[Camby]

I am on a hybrid forum because I have what I believe to be a jungle corn. Well I was reading some neat new posts and came across a rumor being tossed around that Tesseras are hybrids of corns with some kind of king but not cali. They showed pics of this hybrid and I have to admit the resemblence was astonishing! I just wonder if there could be any truth to this at all as I know nothing about this morph of corn. Please educate me so I can correct them if necessary!

Tessera is a dominate gene, to my knowledge NO form of striping in kings is dominate. To date several NA Kings have been hybridized with corns and we haven't seen a dominate trait. SO, no matter what the article is you were reading, it doesn't fit with this morph.

I've seen one king hybrid that looks like a tessera. On that note, however, so do garter snakes. It's a gene set that happens across multiple species, so I'm not surprised it would pop up in corns. The fact that it is dominant suggests it is not the result of hybridization.

Good points. They are not terribly popular so they do not receive much recognition, but robbons, garters and other such snakes have developed a "tessarish" pattern in the wild and they have proven to be very succesful. SO, it shouldn't be all that suprising this look has turned up in corns.

http://www.hybridherps.com/forum/index.php?topic=171.0

The 15th post the guy sayas: "This looks so much like the "Tessera Cornsnakes". I wonder if the "Tessera" gene is just the cal king stripe gene. Did the stripe in these snakes come from the cal king side or the corn side?"

Oh, I guess he was talking cali king I thought he said a different kind. :shrugs: Still asking if its a hybrid.

Personally I LIKE hybrids and plan to breed some on purpose. I just wanted to know. I know someone posted a link to something on here that explains the tessera gene. I will go look at it now.

See above, the stripe gene in CALIFORNIA (I hate "Cali King") is not dominate with corns, it has been around for nearly 20 years or more now. Just because something resembles something else doesn't suggest it is in the mix of that animal. Much like a red 78 Ford Pinto zooming by my house at 125 may superficially look like a Red Posrche whizing by at 125, they are not the same.

I really have no major dog in this fight, I just find it odd that so much "hybrid talk" has been tossed at this morph. I still point to my old question that was never answered from last year. Can anyone prove ANY morph of corn is pure at this point. Maybe with dna testing, but short of that, how do I know caramel, motley, amel, stripe, tessera, cinder, lavender, lava...are pure morphs?

dc

 

[zorro]

What about these bunny hybrids I ran across:
John

 

[Rich Z]

Sigh.... When was the last time something new showed up that WASN'T thought to be a hybrid by someone or another?

I'll tell you, hybrids must be the cutting edge to be on since they tend to create ALL of the new stuff that comes around.... :grin01:

 

[carnivorouszoo]

Wow, I just wanted some info on the Tessera, not to start all this negativity. From now on I'll keep my mouth shut and just go "Duh, I dunno." Sheesh.