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Rumor I heard about Tesseras (sp?)
- Thread starter carnivorouszoo
- Start date
Shiari
Blutterer
http://reptilians.co.za/whywhathow.html
"Sunkissed: Sunkissed (aka Hypomelanism Type B) is a form of Hypomelanism (reduced black pigmentation) that is unrelated to the original form of Hypomelanism. In the 1990's, a new type of hypo gene turned up in Kathy and Bill Love's collection of pure Okeetees. It looked very similar to the 'old' hypo, except that individuals had Okeetee patterns and colors with less than the usual amount of black. It became known as the 'hypo Okeetee' or 'Sunkissed'. Subsequently, Rich Zuchowski bred the new Sunkissed (Hypo Type B) with the 'old Hypos (Type A), producing all normals, proving them to be seperate genes. "
http://www.vmsherp.com/LCCornNames.htm Also stated here that sunkissed appeared in Kathy's collection.
If he said sunkisseds were hybrids, he was wrong.
"Sunkissed: Sunkissed (aka Hypomelanism Type B) is a form of Hypomelanism (reduced black pigmentation) that is unrelated to the original form of Hypomelanism. In the 1990's, a new type of hypo gene turned up in Kathy and Bill Love's collection of pure Okeetees. It looked very similar to the 'old' hypo, except that individuals had Okeetee patterns and colors with less than the usual amount of black. It became known as the 'hypo Okeetee' or 'Sunkissed'. Subsequently, Rich Zuchowski bred the new Sunkissed (Hypo Type B) with the 'old Hypos (Type A), producing all normals, proving them to be seperate genes. "
http://www.vmsherp.com/LCCornNames.htm Also stated here that sunkissed appeared in Kathy's collection.
If he said sunkisseds were hybrids, he was wrong.
Nanci
Alien Lover
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tara80
ACR Breeder # 787
Nice pic, Charles Pritzel has a snow one of these (Jungle Corn) that looks JUST like that one that that dude had for sale on Kingsnake.com (snow tessera forum). I honestly think that this is what that guy was selling in snow form.
Edit: for some reason it will not let me link Charles' snake, or forum so you would have to go to c c corns and look on the photo forums under title post: Some photos from this weekend.
Edit: for some reason it will not let me link Charles' snake, or forum so you would have to go to c c corns and look on the photo forums under title post: Some photos from this weekend.
I can't say for certainty about all of them on your list, but I CAN say that in the case of the Anery C, the evidence I have seen does not support your statement at all.
As for the BloodReds, this is the first time I have heard anyone hint that they could be the result of hybridization. So unless you are willing to call Bill and Kathy Love liars as well as Eddie Leach who originally produced that line, perhaps backing off a bit from your shooting in the dark might be advisable.
And while we are at it, try to dredge up the genetic theory that points to hybridization being a common method of producing brand new genes into the resulting animals. I'm curious about the mechanics of genetic dice rolling that seems to indicate that this is the only way new genetic types are being produced in corn snakes, according to some individuals.
oke:
Carinata
Ever Evolving Exotics
Rcih, I am calling no one a liar. I have talked to Kathy on the phone. More than once. I said I was getting involved in this thread any longer.I can't say for certainty about all of them on your list, but I CAN say that in the case of the Anery C, the evidence I have seen does not support your statement at all.
As for the BloodReds, this is the first time I have heard anyone hint that they could be the result of hybridization. So unless you are willing to call Bill and Kathy Love liars as well as Eddie Leach who originally produced that line, perhaps backing off a bit from your shooting in the dark might be advisable.
And while we are at it, try to dredge up the genetic theory that points to hybridization being a common method of producing brand new genes into the resulting animals. I'm curious about the mechanics of genetic dice rolling that seems to indicate that this is the only way new genetic types are being produced in corn snakes, according to some individuals.
toyah
Snakes in designer genes
The problem is, of course, that people read this sort of thing online and then accept it as fact, repeating it over and over on other forums until it's accepted as truth.
You say "hybrid markers", that they're not proven hybrids - and then you go on to say that they were bred from a mating between another species and a corn, then backcrossed back to corns continually. That's the very definition of a hybrid, so how you can then try to back out of it by saying "I said hybrid markers, not proof yet." is just ridiculous.
Nanci
Alien Lover
Not my picture, but if any hybrid ever looked like a tessera, I think it'd be this one:
That said, I don't suspect any hybrid influence in tessera corns.
I don't know...California Kings have such a distinctive head shape/look to them that carries through to anything they are crossed with. The eyes have an almost crossed look, as if they are forever staring at the tip of their nose. And the nose itself is broad and rounded and foreshortened, not more pointy like a cornsnake.
I agree- the pattern on your example is quite similar.
mike17l
Self-Admitted Duckoholic
David, do you know what a hybrid marker is?
It is nearly impossible for some morph animals (especially ones like tessera, terazzo and bloodred), ones that change to the pattern so drastically to show some markers, so that is why one must look at full siblings and offspring of these animals. To date, to my knowledge no sibling of or offspring of a tessera has shown significant hybrid markers, as well no "throwback" animals.
Other lines of corns cannot say the same thing. Anybody ever pick up a throwback champagne corn? Bout near as keeled as a pituophis. :blowup:
It is nearly impossible for some morph animals (especially ones like tessera, terazzo and bloodred), ones that change to the pattern so drastically to show some markers, so that is why one must look at full siblings and offspring of these animals. To date, to my knowledge no sibling of or offspring of a tessera has shown significant hybrid markers, as well no "throwback" animals.
Other lines of corns cannot say the same thing. Anybody ever pick up a throwback champagne corn? Bout near as keeled as a pituophis. :blowup:
Outcast
ATPSS
David,
You should really start getting a second opinion before you regurgitate what one person says... It seems as though you posted here in order to get one but then immediately accused the people who gave you their opinion as being wrong...
Think of it as though you have just been diagnosed with something... You go get a second opinion because you there may be a chance that it isn't what the original person said...
Many of the people here who not only own but work with Tessera's and the other morphs you have listed say that there are no markers to indicate that they are hybrids. I for one will agree with them, and until there are extensive genetic tests to indicate that they are hybrids, I will continue to believe those who found and work extensively with those morphs on whether or not they are hybrids...
You should really start getting a second opinion before you regurgitate what one person says... It seems as though you posted here in order to get one but then immediately accused the people who gave you their opinion as being wrong...
Think of it as though you have just been diagnosed with something... You go get a second opinion because you there may be a chance that it isn't what the original person said...
Many of the people here who not only own but work with Tessera's and the other morphs you have listed say that there are no markers to indicate that they are hybrids. I for one will agree with them, and until there are extensive genetic tests to indicate that they are hybrids, I will continue to believe those who found and work extensively with those morphs on whether or not they are hybrids...
Shiari
Blutterer
Actually, by that original paragraph you are. You are also accusing Kathy of purposefully, extensively, and secretly introducing hybrids into the captive cornsnake population. If Sunkisseds have hybrid markers then sunkisseds are hybrids and because sunkisseds originated with Kathy she must have known their hybrid origin.
I guess it's time to go start a "My hybrid sunkissed!" thread in gen chat should I want to post any last pictures of Oru before he leaves for his new home.
Carinata
Ever Evolving Exotics
Do not call me a liar! I have great respect for Kathy. I know she would never do any of those things. You really need to calm down. I am just saying there are marks, signs and such that COULD SUGGEST there being other blood than corn.
stephen
corn breeder
Well
People love to jump on the hybrid band wagon as soon as a new morph maybe found.It was done with Ultramels,and I am sure with alot of other morphs.I would say if you like the looks get one.To my knowledge there really is no sure fire way to find out for sure. I do know alot of cornsnakes probably breed to other wild ratsnakes in Florida and also people who have been breeding cornsnakes for nothing more then alot of babys so you have to wonder what some of them, have thrown into the mix.I knew a guy who was breeding females and getting 3 clutchs a year and would breed cornsnake to whatever and was getting ALOT of eggs so he could sell wholesale. If you add all that in for the last years and years,theres probably a big mix, in alot of cornsnakes.I dont think they ever should have classified Rosyrats and Keyscorns into the same family as cornsnakes.They are quite different.But thats something different I suppose. So what should matter is, if you like the looks go for it!
People love to jump on the hybrid band wagon as soon as a new morph maybe found.It was done with Ultramels,and I am sure with alot of other morphs.I would say if you like the looks get one.To my knowledge there really is no sure fire way to find out for sure. I do know alot of cornsnakes probably breed to other wild ratsnakes in Florida and also people who have been breeding cornsnakes for nothing more then alot of babys so you have to wonder what some of them, have thrown into the mix.I knew a guy who was breeding females and getting 3 clutchs a year and would breed cornsnake to whatever and was getting ALOT of eggs so he could sell wholesale. If you add all that in for the last years and years,theres probably a big mix, in alot of cornsnakes.I dont think they ever should have classified Rosyrats and Keyscorns into the same family as cornsnakes.They are quite different.But thats something different I suppose. So what should matter is, if you like the looks go for it!
Shiari
Blutterer
I am not calling YOU a liar. I'm saying that the wording in your original paragraph means that you are, perhaps unintentionally, calling other people, including Kathy, liars.
If Kathy would never do that, then sunkissed CANNOT have hybrid markers. The two are linked. Either they are hybrids, and Kathy is deceitful, or they are NOT hybrids and Kathy is indeed the wonderful, honest and caring individual we all adore.
It's the same with Diffused. She helped spread that gene, helped name the bloody thing.
And you have not said what these supposed "markers" are. There's a HUGE amount of variation in the pattern of corns. My own Eliel is a rather odd looking ghost and has very small saddles. Is this a sign of being a hybrid? Do we get to plop Carol now next to Kathy?
Frankly, you are the one who needs to calm down. You made a very bold statement as absolute fact, we have refuted the possibility of several and now you're up in arms declaring that I've called you a liar when those words never left my fingertips.