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wanting to start over

Glad this thread swung back towards sensibility - there were a lot of assumptions in the early responses that may or may not be warranted. I appreciate the passion many in these forums have for snakes (it's one of the primary reasons I read it daily), but jumping all over those who care for the snakes when little of the situation is understood ultimately hurts the snakes. I don't want to sound sanctimonious or preachy, but I'd suggest that rushing to judgment isn't the best way to help out the snake, which is what I think everyone here wants.
 
After reading other people's post I realize mine was too harsh. Sometimes I judge with my emotions, rather than my logic, which gets me into trouble.
 
It will cost money, but he can responsibly do what he wants and it would be fine. He wants to raise a baby snake. There are plenty of people who don't want to and are looking for a well established snake. He's not churning out adults at an unmanageable pace. It appears to be well cared for. If he can find a good owner for it who will buy/take the adult, he can then go out and get a hatchling. Just has to look at the situation differently, he's on the right path, no need to tackle him.

I'm all for feeling passionate about things, but if you go straight into attack mode, it's very likely someone is going to get defensive. They'll defend their actions no matter how wrong they are (you know what thread I'm talking about). Or they don't come back. Or people don't mention that topic again and so won't learn anything new about it.

Educate, don't berate. At least not at the beginning. The first reply set the mood and turned this into another hostile thread where everyone is butting heads and no one is learning anything, except to seek help elsewhere.


):
 
I completely agree with you, CrazyJenn, again, my post was not an attack, I was just worried that something might go wrong with the trade, that's all. Oh, also, I am sorry, but I can't trade my Snickers! ;)
 
I'm just hoping Cole eventually found a way to make everything work. Haven't really heard anything else from the cat. I don't care about reasons for much of anything, I'm on the side of the fence of liking to see the adult snake end up in a nice home, and the user end up with what he wants at the moment. It's win win. I'd help out but I just have my one little guy and I'm not giving him up for all the tea in china.
 
Okay, I'm going to just come out and say something that I've been wanting to for a while, but since I wish to address an issue with a popular member, I have been hesitant.

I think this thread (and several others) went wrong with the post by Starvesol. I'm sorry, but you have zero tact.

The sad thing is, I think you are correct in what you said. But the way in which you said it will do nothing towards helping solve the problem. You beat people over the head, tell them they are bad owners, are killing their snakes, that all of the owners in the Netherlands are bad keepers. When has this approach ever helped a situation?

Sometimes it does come to the point of needing to beat someone over the head to get them to listen. Most of the time, however, this does nothing but make them defensive and closed off to any further suggestions. From anyone.

While I believe you have good intentions at heart, I feel you only hurt the situation with your caustic attitude.

You are not the only one that does this, but you are the one I see doing it more than anyone else. Please reconsider your approach so you can better get your message across, as it is a good message. You know your stuff when it comes to snakes, and with a different approach, I think you could help a lot more people.
 
I liked Kathy and Palmetto's very nice response. It is so easy to hurt each others feelings. It happens a lot at our house. Palmetto has offered you a little corn and if you post a photo of your big guy, I'm sure someone would love to have him. My Fable is 5 years old and he is awesome. The breeder no longer needed him so he placed him for sale. I have a nice calm snake to enjoy while I wait for my babies to grow up. The breeder has one less snake. Win, win.
 
I feel it would be dishonest of me not to be open about the fact that I've rep'd Margaret for her post. We've been very quick to scold people here recently and I feel that a lack of empathy and positivity on the board is really hampering our ability to help people and get our points across.

Sorry to make it a personality issue, but I honestly feel that things are going that way. I haven't been comfortable to express my opinions here recently, because I know that they won't be treated with respect if they go against the majority. People can disagree and still respect each other. Harsh comments can lead to very quick and unnecessary escalation- I know I've been guilty of this myself (probably this morning).

Minority voices need to be heard for balance, people who have made mistakes need to be helped and we need to be slower in our rush to judgement. Just my 2c.
 
VampMN said:
Okay, I'm going to just come out and say something that I've been wanting to for a while, but since I wish to address an issue with a popular member, I have been hesitant.

I think this thread (and several others) went wrong with the post by Starvesol. I'm sorry, but you have zero tact.

The sad thing is, I think you are correct in what you said. But the way in which you said it will do nothing towards helping solve the problem. You beat people over the head, tell them they are bad owners, are killing their snakes, that all of the owners in the Netherlands are bad keepers. When has this approach ever helped a situation?

Sometimes it does come to the point of needing to beat someone over the head to get them to listen. Most of the time, however, this does nothing but make them defensive and closed off to any further suggestions. From anyone.

While I believe you have good intentions at heart, I feel you only hurt the situation with your caustic attitude.

You are not the only one that does this, but you are the one I see doing it more than anyone else. Please reconsider your approach so you can better get your message across, as it is a good message. You know your stuff when it comes to snakes, and with a different approach, I think you could help a lot more people.
Click to expand...

So I have zero tact, sorry about that but the sun will shine, the rain will fall, the wind will blow, and I will say what I feel.

I realize that the snake really does not care where he ends up, as long as he is cared for, and Cole could have just dumped him in the woods instead of coming here. His sig says his snake is the best snake ever, well the best snake ever takes 5 minutes a day to care for, and takes up little space but somehow the best snake ever isn't worth that??

As far as my approach to other things, I myself cohabbed back in 2005. It was supposed to be temporary. One of my snakes actually died because of it. Cohabbing did kill my snake, and I view it as incrediblly cruel. I live with it every.single.day and I can't take it back, ever. So, if someone does something I believe is cruel, then tells me an entire country does it, of course I see an entire country doing something that is cruel.

As far as me being "a popular member ". Where in the world did you ever get THAT idea??? I am most likely one of the most hated people here, for my rather extreme views. But you know what? That's ok! Honestly being disliked by a human bothers me far less than being disliked by a cat. :)
 
In this case, stomping on the OP for asking a reasonable question very likely goes against the snake's interests, because it turns off the OP and makes it far less likely that this community can help him find a good home for a snake he clearly no longer wants. Palmetto and others made offers of assistance Cole likely won't see - as a result, the way you approached his post hurt his snake.

We all want what is best for our animals, or we wouldn't bother reading or posting here, but you have to deal with the owner to help the snake; Cole asked for help, and several posters were judgmental, presumptuous, and insulting. Maybe you feel better for having spoken your mind, but please explain how doing so helped Cole's snake...
 
Everybody just needs to calm down; everyone has different views on what is acceptable or not in conditions like this. We don't even know all of the details. Not all things are black and white... there's usually quite a bit of grey in between. ;)

The OP hasn't even been back on after making the initial post to view all of this yet and formulate a response or provide more details.
 
I have to admit. I do not like the OP post. I feel it is just like dumping a cat that is no longer a kitten. I hope there are people here that will look past that and help the OP out. I, for one, am not one of them. I would never help a person dump a snake like that. I would also hope the OP has a better reason then because he wants a baby.

All my snakes are like my children. I give them care, food and housing. I also give them medical care when needed. I also give them unconditional love. Do they love me back? Nope but that is ok.

I will also say, I like starevols post, yes she is blunt and brutally honest. However, she has the cojones to say what most of us would like to say. If you don't like it, there is a simple solution, it is called ignore.
 
People on both sides with the cojones have had their say and now potentially two Corn Snakes will suffer as a result. Expressing our opinions sometimes seems more important than protecting Corns.
 
I also would like to add, personally, I welcome brutal honesty. I would rather someone tell me like it is than for them to sugar coat it or skirt around the issues that could potential put my snakes at risk.

I welcome it in my personal life as well, when it comes to my kids, my marriage and all. Why continue wrong behavior when you can fix it to make it better?
 
I didn't say that others that voiced their opinions are wrong either. It is a bad situation all around. But jumping on someone who voiced their opinions isn't going to change the fact of what has already been said.
 
Not sure if you're talking to me Steph, but there is a HUGE difference between talking in an aggressive manner and actually causing harm (and ultimately causing what you didn't want to happen, to actually happen) and communicating how you feel tactfully. Don't let emotions rule what you say and what you post, that's all I am saying. And this is for both sides.
 
Oh no Tara, wasn't towards you at all.

I just saw a lot of people jumping on the banwagon to put down Beth.

Your posts are always level headed as well.
 
I've only ever rehomed one that I raised up from a little worm and that was to a friend at work who gives me updates on his progress and will return him to me if there's any reason his status as treasured family pet changes. He's far better off with her, because he didn't fit into my breeding plans and now lives in a huge viv, gets handled by the whole family and has no pheromones from females to distract him. He was always a mellow and well-socialised corn so he's fitted in well with her family.
I give my snakes a good life as far as I see it, in good sized tubs in controlled temperatures. They have tubes and flowers to crawl over and through, they have fresh water and are well fed, they grow well, breed succcessfully, but they don't get much handling time once they are adults. I handle babies more once they are successfully established, so they don't freak out, but I don't spend much time with the adults. I feel they tolerate rather than enjoy handling, but I can see how someone else would think I neglect them because they don't get petted.
I don't like all the ads listed for snakes that are sold on because their owners 'don't have time for them', I feel it's a cop-put, but if someone's idea of a decent life for a snake is hours of handling every week I have to accept that to them not doing so because of life changes could prompt a sale. They could genuinely feel they are neglecting their pet.
As the OP didn't say why he wanted a baby to start over, and he's actively tried to find a new home through a cornsnake forum, what's the problem? His snake won't be feeling neglected and rejected, it hasn't bonded with him like a horse or a dog would, it won't go into an emotional decline and pine for him!
As far as people speaking their mind on here, there's voicing your opinion and then there's bullying and hectoring. We are adults on a discussion forum not kids in a playground.
I don't have to be right on everything, but if someone tells me I'm wrong in a strident and denigrating manner I'm not going to listen to the message, I'm going to respond to the tone and either ignore them or dig my heels in.
 
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