WOW, Petco needs some help!

[Nanci]

Nothing wrong with you regulating the heat in your cage, but hopefully you have two thermostats daisy-chained, in case one fails. In other words, don't ignore the statistics that electronic devices fail. Using a thermostat does not preclude a recurrence of what happened to you before.

Don

You could even be super unlucky like Jeff and have two daisey-chained thermostats fail.

 

[SODERBERGD]

Lottery luck ? ? ?

lol, just my luck I had to get the one in a million fluke snake that didn't have the sense to move when the pad got too hot. I'm going to have to look into the extra thermostat thing... I am talking to my roofers about the meteorite cover ASAP lol
Thanks for sharing your experience, I am glad you didn't take offense I just want what is best for my snakes

LOL. Yeah, mee too. AND I'll take the train from now on. I don't want to be that one-in-a-bazillion casualty that falls out of the sky on the way to grandma's.

Your luck is like mine. If you had a one-in-a-million chance to win the lottery and bought 1M lottery tickets that week, a billionaire NY would win the lottery after receiving just one ticket from his daughter in DooDah, Wyoming.

 

[Nanci]

It's really nice to see you here, Mr. Soderberg- you should hang out with us more often!!

 

[ghosthousecorns]

I agree 100% with Nanci... Us persnickety corn keepers need someone to keep us in line.. and make us laugh so hard about Doodah, Wyoming we snort coffee out of our nose!

 

[Nanci]

I have a granddaughter of your bloodreds now and am very proud of her!

 

[MrsCornSnake]

I know people are probably going to rip me to shreds for this, but I don't use any sort of heat for my two snakes. None at all.

The breeder who I got my first corn from told me that since they were from a northern American climate, as long as you keep your house at a reasonable temperature they should be all right. I didn't really believe him, mostly because of what I read here and other sites. So I bought a under the tank heater and put it there with a couple inches of aspen shavings. I had it on for a few months and not once did I ever see my Sunglow on the "hot" side of the tank. Finally, I shut it off.

Now, please keep in mind that I don't let my temperature in my apartment fall below 75 degrees. I hate feeling cold, and my snakes... well, they are thriving. I got another one this fall, and they're both eating, shedding, pooping, and eating again.

So there you have it. I won't advise it if you keep your snakes in a garage or whatever, but in a warm little apartment... they seem to be happy and healthy. unch:

 

[tbtusk]

Now, please keep in mind that I don't let my temperature in my apartment fall below 75 degrees.

There it is. It's nice for them to have a warmer place (at least that's the general believe, but hey, look what Soderberg's come in here and shown us.) but 75's just fine.

Soderberg, thanks for posting all that. it's really interesting! I'm not actually more confused about why ball pythons DO fry themselves, not why corns don't. I mean, i can understand a corn that starts to burrow, gets warm, and stops, or gets too warm and turns around, but a ball python that just keeps on going down, getting warmer and warmer, just to end up fryed.:shrugs: I guess its like that idea of boiling a frog: Put it in hot water and it jumps out, put it in cool water and warm it up slowly, and the frog just sits there while it's boiled.

Very interesting info Don.

 

[Duff]

I think what it really comes down to is realizing that the first thing you read or hear isn't always the only way. Or, to put it another way, lack of open mindedness. What I've seen here over the last year or so, is new members coming along, reading advice, and then taking that as gospel (so to speak). Even though they really have no actual experience to base things on. Yeah, there's nothing wrong with taking extra precautions and advising others to do the same, but that doesn't mean those who have other methods are any less caring or intelligent. You really shouldn't preach about things you are still figuring out or learning about, IMO.

But then I'm just some care-bearsy, peace lovin' hippy, so what do I know :sidestep:

 

[ghosthousecorns]

I think what it really comes down to is realizing that the first thing you read or hear isn't always the only way. Or, to put it another way, lack of open mindedness. What I've seen here over the last year or so, is new members coming along, reading advice, and then taking that as gospel (so to speak). Even though they really have no actual experience to base things on. Yeah, there's nothing wrong with taking extra precautions and advising others to do the same, but that doesn't mean those who have other methods are any less caring or intelligent. You really shouldn't preach about things you are still figuring out or learning about, IMO.

But then I'm just some care-bearsy, peace lovin' hippy, so what do I know :sidestep:

I'm not sure who this is directed at.. If it is meant for me, I was going by my own experience not just something I read, and have kept and bred corns since 2003.. Obviously Don has kept them longer and knows more but I think he and I have already made our peace on this? Anyway I hope I just got you all wrong here. I've had a couple of people pm me about this as well, but will not repeat what they said as it was private messaged and I know not everybody wants to stick their necks out. Anyway I have really thought hard about this. When I try to give advice it's because I genuinely want to help people, but this whole thing has made me think maybe I should just quit trying.

 

[tbtusk]

the only problem i run into, Duff, is that even if I don't have personal expirience, I don't want to put my snakes in any kind of risk, so I take the advice (to not co-hab for example) because I want to make sure my snakes will be safe, even if there is another, most possibly less popular way of doing things. I don't know how to get around this, if I don't just want to follow at least SOME of the teachings I run into. But I guess that's okay.

 

[kathylove]

Thanks for posting, Don!

I just started reading this thread and was beginning to feel like a total dinosaur, lol!

I have been breeding fair to large numbers of colubrids (including kings, milks, hognose, and other rats besides corns) since the mid 1980s, although in recent years I have thinned out the non-corn colubrids. Although I have sometimes used dimmer switches on my heat tapes, I have also used them "naked".

Back when I first started to keep snakes in the '70s (before I was doing much of any breeding), there was no equipment made just for herps, so it was improvise as needed. I still don't have a thermostat on anything, although whenever possible Bill sets them up on dimmer switches. But with or without rheostat switches, so far I have never had a burn (or any other problem), including not only on all colubrids, but also for a lesser number of boas, tree boas, and various pythons over the years. I am sure that it is possible for a snake to get burned, but I just haven't seen it yet, and I have kept quite a few babies and adults of various types over the years.

I always advise new keepers to be as conservative as possible to ensure the most likely success. So I usually suggest some kind of rheostat or thermostat. But I have certainly not found them to be absolutely necessary in my experience.

 

[Duff]

I'm not sure who this is directed at..

I didn't have any names in mind when I posted. If I had, I would've mentioned them. And besides, you've been at this longer than I have, and you're definitely not new. It's just the overall trend I've been seeing of bashing people because they may do something differently. And most of the bashing seems to come from people that don't actually have experience to base the preaching on, just something they've read online.

This may not have been the most appropriate thread to post my thoughts on the above, but what can I say. I was inspired by a couple of the posts and said what the heck.

 

[ghosthousecorns]

Ok, fair enough and sorry if I got defensive, Duff. It's just kind of humbling to have what you believed to be true refuted by the likes of Kathy Love and Don Soderberg ... Of course I am but a mere NOOB rook compared to those 2, lol.

 

[Duff]

the only problem i run into, Duff, is that even if I don't have personal expirience, I don't want to put my snakes in any kind of risk, so I take the advice (to not co-hab for example) because I want to make sure my snakes will be safe, even if there is another, most possibly less popular way of doing things. I don't know how to get around this, if I don't just want to follow at least SOME of the teachings I run into. But I guess that's okay.

And there's nothing wrong with that. The problem I see is the bashing that some people dish out because someone does something different. Even if it's not as evil as they may have read somewhere. My point is people need to realize just because they read it, doesn't make it 100%. Another way isn't "evil" just because you didn't read about it first. If you get what I'm saying. Everyone has their thoughts and opinions about what is best, but that doesn't mean someone else's is necessarily wrong. Different can still be ok. It isn't always, but unless you have actual first-hand experience, you aren't really qualified to preach about it. State your opinion, fine, but jumping on a different practice when you don't really have experience to back it up isn't fine, IMO. And that (in a nutshell) is all I'm saying.

 

[susang]

Back to the OP, we've all been told stuff at pet shops both good and bad. I thik the same is true here we need to take the info in a do what we thik is best, of course if we have some experience. I am frequesntly the unyielding basher. That's fine with me I have experience with co-habbing and I'll tell people my experience. I really think if we all admitted it we all do things that would shock people on this forum. I must admit to being rather shocked that SMR does not use thermostats. I was shocked when I inquired of Capt Bogart about how he heated a particular rack, his answer Florida. I guess what I'm saying is we all say things on her and give advice and most of it is well meaning. susang

 

[Nanci]

I was shocked when I inquired of Capt Bogart about how he heated a particular rack, his answer Florida. susang

I was just at their house a week ago- it's still summer down there...Still running the AC!! In December!!

 

[ghosthousecorns]

I'm jealous, I am starting to forget what the sun looks like.

 

[Weebonilass]

Mr Sodenberg,

You mentioned when the house might be too warm, but when is the house too cold. Personally, I don't keep my house at 75. My vaulted ceilings would make my heating bill rocket out of this world.

As it is I only have four snakes, although got my first one six years ago. My female is almost always in her hanging hide (probably should put a thermometer up high in her tank<g>), the older male is stretched out over both ends of the tank, the little anery mot is almost always on the warm side (but seldoms burrows) and the new one I haven't had long enough to see a preference.

 

[SODERBERGD]

Mr Sodenberg,

You mentioned when the house might be too warm, but when is the house too cold. Personally, I don't keep my house at 75. My vaulted ceilings would make my heating bill rocket out of this world.

As it is I only have four snakes, although got my first one six years ago. My female is almost always in her hanging hide (probably should put a thermometer up high in her tank), the older male is stretched out over both ends of the tank, the little anery mot is almost always on the warm side (but seldoms burrows) and the new one I haven't had long enough to see a preference.

I'm glad you brought this up. What you're seeing is possibly the crux of the temperature issue with corns. If there was a ranking of the most crucial tool in snake husbandry, it would be the thermometer. A good one! Having said that, you should never completely trust a thermometer. Frequently put it next to a dependable thermometer (usually the one on the thermostat of your home HVAC) OR have two thermometers from which comparisons can be monitored. So, here it comes; the biggest pearl of wisdom I have to offer the corn snake hobbyist.

If you presume that the warm end of your cage is warm enough, and that the cool end is not too warm, and that your snake will utilize those temperate zones, you're only partially prudent. First, if corns do not feel comfortable in either of the hides, they may not use them. If the opening to your hide is too large (allowing too much light to penetrate the hide), it may not stay there. Second, if the warm-side hide is too warm, your corn will go to the cool side. They know they can tolerate inferior temperatures, but also know they will die from excessively high temperatures. Hence, when it's too warm, they retreat to the cool side of the cage and either never get an appetite OR are rendered incapable of digestion. It sounds to me as though your snake is staying in the hanging hide because it's too warm (or not dark enough) in properly warm zones on the floor of the cage. Without a way to check temperatures INSIDE those hides, you won't discover why it's staying in the hanging hide.

The answer to your question is, "I can't imagine a home that is comfortable for humans being too cool for a corn snake (as long as properly dark hides have temperatures conducive to the thermal regulation practiced by corns for digestion)". In other words, your home can be 60F and be safe for your corn snake as long as you offer hides that are conducive to digestion.

If the three most essential prerequisites for success in retail business are: location, location, location, then surely, for corns, they would be: temperature, temperature, temperature. We all knew this, but what sets the successful corn snake keeper apart from others is how and where he/she satisfies those requirements. I have told many customers that I don't care if they use candles or thermo-nuclear devices, as long as they achieve 79-85F in one hide and below 80F in another (please, do not use candles). Honestly, except for feeding mistakes, I don't see how a snake keeper could have any problems with a corn snake if they remember who's the boss. THE SNAKE is, but since it can't tell us what it wants, we must put the THERMOMETER where it is needed. This would not be on one of the walls of the cage. In my next book, I'm showing the best placement of non-electronic thermometers is to be attached to the inside wall or ceiling of the warm-side hide. Honestly, no other location in the cage is important (unless it's too warm elsewhere).

Some of you will grin because you've heard me say this on the phone. When asked by anyone what temperature a corn snake's cage should be, I say, "I don't care". As shocking as it is, I say this for one important reason. We really don't care what temperature the cage is in places where the snake can't hide. We really are only interested in the temperature of the snake's body, so nowhere in the cage is the temperature important to monitor other than the warm-side hide (unless it's warmer outside that hide). This is because that is where your snake should spend most of its captive life. Hence, if your thermometer is on the back glass of the aquarium, where your snake will never be, why do you care what it reads? It's useless there.

 

[Weebonilass]

I'm glad you brought this up. What you're seeing is possibly the crux of the temperature issue with corns. If there was a ranking of the most crucial tool in snake husbandry, it would be the thermometer. A good one! Having said that, you should never completely trust a thermometer. Frequently put it next to a dependable thermometer (usually the one on the thermostat of your home HVAC) OR have two thermometers from which comparisons can be monitored. So, here it comes; the biggest pearl of wisdom I have to offer the corn snake hobbyist.

If you presume that the warm end of your cage is warm enough, and that the cool end is not too warm, and that your snake will utilize those temperate zones, you're only partially prudent. First, if corns do not feel comfortable in either of the hides, they may not use them. If the opening to your hide is too large (allowing too much light to penetrate the hide), it may not stay there. Second, if the warm-side hide is too warm, your corn will go to the cool side. They know they can tolerate inferior temperatures, but also know they will die from excessively high temperatures. Hence, when it's too warm, they retreat to the cool side of the cage and either never get an appetite OR are rendered incapable of digestion. It sounds to me as though your snake is staying in the hanging hide because it's too warm (or not dark enough) in properly warm zones on the floor of the cage. Without a way to check temperatures INSIDE those hides, you won't discover why it's staying in the hanging hide.

Actually, because I have a HerpStat on the warm side, I know the temps there are within the guidelines for warm side and she does go in her moss box which is also on the warm end prior/during a shed. I also have a thermometer on the cool side and the temps there are in the prescribed range. Gailleann is simply one of those who prefer to be arboeal (sp.). She got the hanging hide (which is a paper towel core) when she got too big for her little bonsai type tree to handle. She is often seen hanging her head out, esp. when SHE thinks its feeding time