• Hello!

    Either you have not registered on this site yet, or you are registered but have not logged in. In either case, you will not be able to use the full functionality of this site until you have registered, and then logged in after your registration has been approved.

    Registration is FREE, so please register so you can participate instead of remaining a lurker....

    Please be certain that the location field is correctly filled out when you register. All registrations that appear to be bogus will be rejected. Which means that if your location field does NOT match the actual location of your registration IP address, then your registration will be rejected.

    Sorry about the strictness of this requirement, but it is necessary to block spammers and scammers at the door as much as possible.

Your opinion.

diamondlil said:
If this was your thread you could erase the BORING bits, so nice of you to advise on what is interesting on here :sidestep:
Click to expand...

Ok, maybe things get interesting if we start repeating them steadily.

So, I'll leave the rest of this thread to all the color-experts, cause the "Kastanie"-experts seem to be dispensable. Have a nice day.
 
Ssthisto said:
I'd been under the impression that nobody knows yet - whether a normal crossed to "Kastanie" = Normal het Kastanie or whether Normal X Kastanie equals some intermediate form - there hadn't been enough crossing done.
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=359933
Reply With Quote
I do know that 'Mandarin' is Amelanistic Kastanie - but it wasn't clear from what I was reading whether the Mandarins popping up were because the original Kastanie animals just happened to be het Amel or if it was because someone deliberately outcrossed Kastanie to Amel, then crossed the F1 babies...

Does anyone in Britain have any known/suspected Kastanie animals?

And is anyone doing dedicated outcross and recover breeding tests on the Kastanie animals in Europe?
Click to expand...

i'd just like to stay out of the fight about names, colours and off-topic-discussions... (but believe me, english is NOT the language with the most descriptive words!)
by the way, sorry for my poor english in advance...

i know the german breeders for a year or two and talked to them last time this sunday, looking at a few of their mandarins and kastanie on the table in front of me. as far as i can see it is a reproducable genetic trait, simple recessive. 100% mandarin and kastanie have been produced from kastanie het amel x mandarin.

test pairings i know have been done against caramel (if you look at a mandarin you might know why), against hypo and will be done next spring against several others. i haven't seen the results of the caramel tests, but according to the breeder it resulted in 100% "normal" classics. a kastanie (het amel, which was unknown at that time) has also been tested against a crimson (the only hypo available) this year and produced "normal" classics and amels. i've seen these hatchlings. the f2 results of these will take two more years...

but this trait already exists for a few years, according to the breeders kastanie has already been recovered from outcrossed "classic het kastanie" hatchlings by someone else. this would prove it's a recessive trait... but i can't be called a witness for that. it's just what i heard.

no intermediates in both cases, looks to me like a simple recessive trait. looking at the hatchlings: maybe it is a new one in the anery group, so time will tell if any other will mask kastanie or vice versa.
 
correction: it was not kastanie that has been tested against caramel, it was mandarin against butter motley, which resulted in 100% normal amels.
sorry for that mistake!
 
Thank you for clarifying that, Karl - your English is not at all bad, and you certainly explained it better than the information I'd read before.

I wonder if anyone will have any Kastanie or het Kastanie corns at Hamm next year.

But I've got to ask... what language has more descriptive words than English? I've always read that English has more words (numerically) than any other language - and that many of these are descriptors.
 
Thanks Karl, that's exactly what I was wondering about. So the mandarin/kastanie is being tested and the results so far are suggesting a new recessive trait. As you've seen these morphs in person, how do you think the snakes at the start of this thread compare?
 
diamondlil said:
how do you think the snakes at the start of this thread compare?
Click to expand...

close to it, but not exactly the same. kastanie usually seems to be darker as hatchling, at least the few i saw. but i don't know if the photos show the real colours, or maybe you got some other factors from outcrossing? might also be true that the spectrum of kastanie is wider than what i know. the only way to be 100% sure would be a test pairing, which might be a problem. do you know where the parents origin from?

kastanie seem to start more like an anery and gain colour with every shed.
freshly hatched they first reminded me of anerys, a week or two later of caramels, but caramels maintain their grey basic colour, kastanie don't. and the brown colour is different after a few sheds, that's for sure.

i guess there will be a way to buy a hatchling or two at hamm from the breeder, if you contact him and get the deal done before hamm, but the problem is that he doesn't speak english. definitely it's only a question of money, but as far as i know these aren't cheap. at least they are too expensive for my budget...
 
I think for me I'd have to see the snakes in person to decide if I wanted them. The snakes this thread is about belong to Rene, who is dutch, so there is a chance that they are related to the mandarin/kastanie line, especially as Rene states that they looked like aneries as hatchlings
 
diamondlil said:
I think for me I'd have to see the snakes in person to decide if I wanted them. The snakes this thread is about belong to Rene, who is dutch, so there is a chance that they are related to the mandarin/kastanie line, especially as Rene states that they looked like aneries as hatchlings
Click to expand...

Rene might be a lucky devil!
 
i know rene, he has only 2006 kastanie and mandarins. and he is german, not dutch.
the only breeder with adult specimen and this year's offspring is frank from cologne, he doesn't speak english.
 
Thanx for clarifying Karl, but if you don't mind my name is also René and i think Diamondlil was talking about me.

Well ive got more pictures from the hatchlings maybe it will help.
The pictures are showing a normal with a (maybe) kastanie
 

Attachments

  • P1010057.JPG
    P1010057.JPG
    48.7 KB · Views: 66
  • P1010058.JPG
    P1010058.JPG
    57.2 KB · Views: 66
  • P1010061.JPG
    P1010061.JPG
    55.1 KB · Views: 66
  • P1010056.JPG
    P1010056.JPG
    67.4 KB · Views: 66
  • P1010055.JPG
    P1010055.JPG
    74 KB · Views: 66
Yep, it was certainly you, Rene, but my computer won't add the accents to spell your name properly! Those are lovely snakes, and hopefully we are finally closer to finding out what they are :)
 
René-reptileaddict said:
Thanx for clarifying Karl, but if you don't mind my name is also René and i think Diamondlil was talking about me.

Well ive got more pictures from the hatchlings maybe it will help.
The pictures are showing a normal with a (maybe) kastanie
Click to expand...

sorry, didn't know that. i thought you were talking about someone else, who lives right next to the dutch border and owns offspring from mandarins. he posted in this thread, too....

you do not live too far away, maybe you can have a look on them at hamm to find out if this is the same as what you own. or maybe at houten, i don't know the breeder's schedule. i still see a difference between what i saw and your photos, but i'd not call it impossible. did you already do any test pairings?
 
I'm not going to Hamm but i think i will go to Houten.
I did not do any test breeding with because they are just 4 months old, the one that was older did die after one and a half year.
 
I sooo much hope one or two pop up in my clutches next year.... who know where the squirls hided the Kastanies.... lol
 
New Pictures :)
First one when he/she was 2 weeks old
The other pics from today after he/she did shed.
 

Attachments

  • P1010056.JPG
    P1010056.JPG
    67.4 KB · Views: 79
  • P1010052.JPG
    P1010052.JPG
    67.5 KB · Views: 78
  • P1010053.JPG
    P1010053.JPG
    63.5 KB · Views: 79
Please don't jump on me for stating my opinion in this thread. We are each entitled to present our own observations.

The snake in question actually looks nothing like the sunkissed caramel that Serp produced last year, and I would have posted a link to his progression thread, but alas it seems to be MIA. Rene's critters look like wild types within the scope of normal variation for cornsnakes. I know no one in this thread wants to entertain the idea of distant emoryi blood, but I do see tremendous simliarities to rootbeers and there is no way of knowing if in the multiple number of generations back that there might not have been some emoryi blood before it's ancestors ever got to Europe. Can anybody prove with 100% certainty that there is no other ratsnake blood in the animals we have today? No. That said, there is no possible way to know for sure the purity of these animals, but test breeding for the mandarin/kastanie may help prove out a new gene, no matter where it came from. I would like to see it proven out and some of them get sent over to the States so we can work with it, too.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top