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2 corns in 1 cage

wilomn said:
I have heard that there are people who have kept multiple snakes in the same enclosure for years with no problems. I've heard they'll even breed that way.
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How many times has it been said that of course there will be situations where it doesn't seem to have ill effects, but guess what it's still a VERY big risk. At least 50/50 that something will go very wrong. The others that seem like they 'had no problems' are probably very stressed out (and we all know stress is a big problem for snakes). And once again you can't properly monitor individual snakes' habits in these situations.
 
I honestly don't see the big deal people are going to do what they wan't you can only give them so much advice. If they don't listen then they don't if they lose their snake then they do there is nothing any of us here can do to stop it~
 
There is something we can do to stop it.... Inform them. Inform them with facts, with experience. If they choose to ignore it, so be it. But saying nothing is just plain stupid. By that logic, we shouldn't say anything about finishing antibiotics, washing hands, running bloodwork on ourselves and our pets, etc simply because *someone* might *ignore* it. Ridiculous. We aren't talking *only* to the OP, but to *everyone* that might read this thread.
 
Shiari said:
There is something we can do to stop it.... Inform them. Inform them with facts, with experience. If they choose to ignore it, so be it. But saying nothing is just plain stupid. By that logic, we shouldn't say anything about finishing antibiotics, washing hands, running bloodwork on ourselves and our pets, etc simply because *someone* might *ignore* it. Ridiculous. We aren't talking *only* to the OP, but to *everyone* that might read this thread.
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And anyone who disagrees with you is just ...wrong? No middle ground? No possibility that there may be more than one way to keep snakes successfully?
 
Now I don't think this was ment to become something to argue about. This is true you can only give advice but there are some people who will not take it. I think everyone should be informed! But in the end they are going to do what they want as sad as that is!
 
wilomn said:
And anyone who disagrees with you is just ...wrong? No middle ground? No possibility that there may be more than one way to keep snakes successfully?
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We have proven cases of cannibalism, stress induced regurges/feeding issues, and death by eggbinding from too-young females.

Not all people who text while driving get into accidents.... But some DO. Thus, texting while driving is generally a very bad idea, just as cohabbing two corns is generally a bad idea.

Would you like me to take a picture of my two 07s to show you the size difference that resulted from a single month of cohabbing? ... My snow is 90 grams, my anery... 200.
 
Shiari said:
We have proven cases of cannibalism, stress induced regurges/feeding issues, and death by eggbinding from too-young females.

Not all people who text while driving get into accidents.... But some DO. Thus, texting while driving is generally a very bad idea, just as cohabbing two corns is generally a bad idea.

Would you like me to take a picture of my two 07s to show you the size difference that resulted from a single month of cohabbing? ... My snow is 90 grams, my anery... 200.
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No need, though I thank you kindly.

My years of personal experience as well as that of other keepers stands no chance against such scientific research as you've done with your two snakes.

Why, the fact that multiples have been housed together for years, producing multiple generations of happy healthy snakelets means nothing when compared to the emotion with which you recite your well founded and scientifically sound facts.

I'm sorry to have wasted the time it took you to read this response to you kindly given and well meant, though erroneous, advice from on high.
 
And your sig says it all so people should highly respect your opinion as well:)

I may not be very smart, but I can lift heavy things
 
wilomn said:
No need, though I thank you kindly.

My years of personal experience as well as that of other keepers stands no chance against such scientific research as you've done with your two snakes.

Why, the fact that multiples have been housed together for years, producing multiple generations of happy healthy snakelets means nothing when compared to the emotion with which you recite your well founded and scientifically sound facts.

I'm sorry to have wasted the time it took you to read this response to you kindly given and well meant, though erroneous, advice from on high.
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See you are taking it too far all they did was give you their opinion. Each person is aloud to have their own this is america I think that is still one of they rights we still have.
 
KINGSRULE said:
See you are taking it too far all they did was give you their opinion. Each person is aloud to have their own this is america I think that is still one of they rights we still have.
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Ahhhhh gotcha, whithering scorn from the side you feel closest to is fine.

Sarcasm from anyone else is not....

Making note, and there it is.

Less sarcasm, more kowtows and grovelling.
 
wilomn said:
Ahhhhh gotcha, whithering scorn from the side you feel closest to is fine.

Sarcasm from anyone else is not....

Making note, and there it is.

Less sarcasm, more kowtows and grovelling.
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It is not the side I feel closest too but, you are saying eeryone elses years of exp are wrong. You know what your friends have done and I know what I have seen can't we all just agree to disagree!?
 
Much of the arguments on both sides are anecdotal.

WE say "better to not because it CAN cause ... regurges, egg binding, one snake eating another"

YOU say "it's fine to do it, because it doesn't happen to everyone."

We also include the scientific *fact* that corn snakes are NOT social animals. Animals that are non-social and forced into social settings become stressed. Increased stress is known to lead to digestive problems, immunosuppression, and at least in mammals can cause an increase in risk for cancers. I would not be surprised if it did the same for reptiles.

There's the science for you.
 
Shiari said:
Much of the arguments on both sides are anecdotal.

WE say "better to not because it CAN cause ... regurges, egg binding, one snake eating another"

YOU say "it's fine to do it, because it doesn't happen to everyone."

We also include the scientific *fact* that corn snakes are NOT social animals. Animals that are non-social and forced into social settings become stressed. Increased stress is known to lead to digestive problems, immunosuppression, and at least in mammals can cause an increase in risk for cancers. I would not be surprised if it did the same for reptiles.

There's the science for you.
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Well there is proof thank you for the science lesson. Even I learned something new today.
 
Shiari obviously this person does not care about would and coulds- no surprise there. My only reason for bothering to reply is when newbies use our search function that we beg them to use before asking obvious questions threads like these pop up. People see a base that advoctes cohabbing and feel now they have done their research and it must be fine.

Every cohabbed snake will not die an untimely dealth or eat their cage mate, but every cohabbed snake will feel stress under the constant company of another which tends to lead to regurges and health problems. There is no risk of cannibalism or not knowing which snake is sick, just shed, or regurged when housing alone- the same can't be said for cohabbing. Its kinda a no brainer if you care about your snakes you just don't risk cohabbing thats all.
 
So... me OBSERVING my snakes have stress caused regurges and eating one another doesn't constitute EVIDENCE? What planet are you on, again? Because here on Earth, part of the scientific method includes observation to prove or disprove your hypothesis. Here, let me run through the process for you so you can see how I came to my conclusion that cohabbing is bad. And YES, the tanks were MORE than big enough for 2 baby corns (29 gallons). I'll even throw Beth's experience into the fray just to increase the data.

Hypothesis: Cohabitating a non-social animal may cause the early death of an animal due to stress induced feeding issues, breeding too young, or cannibalism.

Experiment: Cohabitate 2 snakes, and observe the effects on their behavior.

Observations: In case #1, stress from cohabitation and exhibited dominance caused regurgitations and feeding issues in the submissive animal, subject B. Animal was separated after regurgitation to prevent death of animal. In case #2, subject A ate subject B. In case #3, subject A bred to subject B at an age too young for subject B, causing egg-binding and eventual death.

Conclusion: Cohabitation of non-social animals CAN cause early death of an animal due to stress-induced feeding issues (including regurgitations), cannibalism, and/or breeding too young.
 
RobbiesCornField said:
So... me OBSERVING my snakes have stress caused regurges and eating one another doesn't constitute EVIDENCE? What planet are you on, again? Because here on Earth, part of the scientific method includes observation to prove or disprove your hypothesis. Here, let me run through the process for you so you can see how I came to my conclusion that cohabbing is bad. And YES, the tanks were MORE than big enough for 2 baby corns (29 gallons). I'll even throw Beth's experience into the fray just to increase the data.

Hypothesis: Cohabitating a non-social animal may cause the early death of an animal due to stress induced feeding issues, breeding too young, or cannibalism.

Experiment: Cohabitate 2 snakes, and observe the effects on their behavior.

Observations: In case #1, stress from cohabitation and exhibited dominance caused regurgitations and feeding issues in the submissive animal, subject B. Animal was separated after regurgitation to prevent death of animal. In case #2, subject A ate subject B. In case #3, subject A bred to subject B at an age too young for subject B, causing egg-binding and eventual death.

Conclusion: Cohabitation of non-social animals CAN cause early death of an animal due to stress-induced feeding issues (including regurgitations), cannibalism, and/or breeding too young.
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And you did this once?

And on this one time you base everything?

And did you do a necropsy to determine cause of death or assume it was dominance caused regurgitations? I've never heard it put quite that way, but I'm curious about how you determined cause of death in the one snake, out of two in the experiment, that died.

I'm not really trying to bust your chops.
 
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