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2 corns in 1 cage

RobbiesCornField said:
Conclusion: Cohabitation of non-social animals CAN cause early death of an animal due to stress-induced feeding issues (including regurgitations), cannibalism, and/or breeding too young.
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Just wanted to focus on the CAN part of the statement above for a moment.

Putting your snake in the perfect cage CAN kill it.

Doing everything to the best of your ability CAN kill it.

Doing nothing CAN kill it.

Not everything does though. Sometimes things that you, the collective you now, do not approve.
 
Actually, a perfect setup can NOT be the cause of death. That's like saying that eating well is a cause of death.

Again, all we are stating is the risks. Are they really worth saving a little space? I offer up that picture again showing cohab-induced feeding issues.......
 
wilomn said:
And you did this once?

And on this one time you base everything?

And did you do a necropsy to determine cause of death or assume it was dominance caused regurgitations? I've never heard it put quite that way, but I'm curious about how you determined cause of death in the one snake, out of two in the experiment, that died.

I'm not really trying to bust your chops.
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If you read the actual "report", it said the snake that was regurgitating had been removed after first regurgitation to prevent death. Regurges CAN and WILL cause death if the SOURCE is untreated. After removal from the same tank, the regurges were no longer an issue, and the snake returned to normal behavior.
 
wilomn said:
Just wanted to focus on the CAN part of the statement above for a moment.

Putting your snake in the perfect cage CAN kill it.

Doing everything to the best of your ability CAN kill it.

Doing nothing CAN kill it.

Not everything does though. Sometimes things that you, the collective you now, do not approve.
Click to expand...

I did put CAN in caps for a reason. Putting your snake in the perfect cage with sub-par cleaning, watering, etc. can kill it. Doing everything to the best of your ability can kill it, if you've done absolutely no research. Doing nothing can kill it because you're doing nothing. Not feeding, cleaning, watering, etc.
 
That was the same result with mine. Stopped eating after cohabbing, resumed eating 3 weeks after removal.
 
wilomn said:
Ok guys.

LOL
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wow. Its like banging heads on the wall. Wake up man. ↲
↲
Can you honestly tell me that even a 1 in 10 chance that something will happen is worth it. Even a 1 in 20 chance. Even a 1 in 30 chance.↲
↲
but anyway. You carry on. Like i said before, there's no helping people like you. ↲
↲
Here is a risk that can be eliminated completely. If you like taking chances take up sky diving. But don't take chances with the lives of your animals.
 
Well, I am NOT going to jump into the discussion with an opinion pro or con. I'm a noobie. I AM going to say that this discussion has prevented me from taking a chance on co-habbing. I wanted to initially when I decided to get a 2nd corn, because I want a different color morph & I thought if the new snake was the same size as Humphrey they could live in a larger viv together & visually the effect would be stunning. ~But~ if there is even some chance of these bad outcomes, even if it is less than the 20% one poster cited, I am not going to take that chance. So that's the conclusion I drew from the discussion & I think my corns are better off for my having read the discussion before co-habbing & I'd like to thank the experienced snake lovers who educated me.
 
wstphal said:
Well, I am NOT going to jump into the discussion with an opinion pro or con. I'm a noobie. I AM going to say that this discussion has prevented me from taking a chance on co-habbing. I wanted to initially when I decided to get a 2nd corn, because I want a different color morph & I thought if the new snake was the same size as Humphrey they could live in a larger viv together & visually the effect would be stunning. ~But~ if there is even some chance of these bad outcomes, even if it is less than the 20% one poster cited, I am not going to take that chance. So that's the conclusion I drew from the discussion & I think my corns are better off for my having read the discussion before co-habbing & I'd like to thank the experienced snake lovers who educated me.
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Thats awesome to hear...good thinking:)
 
Thanks danielle, I want what's best for my babies. OK, so Humphrey really isn't a baby (his previous owner did not know how old he is but based on size he is probably about 3 years old) but he's my big baby corn!
 
wstphal said:
Well, I am NOT going to jump into the discussion with an opinion pro or con. I'm a noobie. I AM going to say that this discussion has prevented me from taking a chance on co-habbing. I wanted to initially when I decided to get a 2nd corn, because I want a different color morph & I thought if the new snake was the same size as Humphrey they could live in a larger viv together & visually the effect would be stunning. ~But~ if there is even some chance of these bad outcomes, even if it is less than the 20% one poster cited, I am not going to take that chance. So that's the conclusion I drew from the discussion & I think my corns are better off for my having read the discussion before co-habbing & I'd like to thank the experienced snake lovers who educated me.
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Best post of the day. Seriously.
 
Lol i never thought this thread will have so many posts, but like stated im not co-habbing
and I'm glad that people are seing no to co-habb after reading some of the posts
 
wstphal said:
Well, I am NOT going to jump into the discussion with an opinion pro or con. I'm a noobie. I AM going to say that this discussion has prevented me from taking a chance on co-habbing. I wanted to initially when I decided to get a 2nd corn, because I want a different color morph & I thought if the new snake was the same size as Humphrey they could live in a larger viv together & visually the effect would be stunning. ~But~ if there is even some chance of these bad outcomes, even if it is less than the 20% one poster cited, I am not going to take that chance. So that's the conclusion I drew from the discussion & I think my corns are better off for my having read the discussion before co-habbing & I'd like to thank the experienced snake lovers who educated me.
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Great job! Thats what this site is for so we can all learn from each other!
 
Shiari said:
We have proven cases of cannibalism, stress induced regurges/feeding issues, and death by eggbinding from too-young females.

Not all people who text while driving get into accidents.... But some DO. Thus, texting while driving is generally a very bad idea, just as cohabbing two corns is generally a bad idea.

Would you like me to take a picture of my two 07s to show you the size difference that resulted from a single month of cohabbing? ... My snow is 90 grams, my anery... 200.
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I am not going to take sides here. BUT yes I would like to see those pics, THEN PROVE that it came from a co-hab. You wont be able to.

As you have stated before we can only warn. If people still choose to co-hab we can just hope the best for the animals involved. What gives us the right to tell other what they should do with thier animals. I like the inform statement from earlier but to force something down someone throat, come on we are mostly adults on this site and even some of the younger people know better.

If you choose to risk it...so be it. You have been educated. (informed of the risks)
 
Buzzard said:
I am not going to take sides here. BUT yes I would like to see those pics, THEN PROVE that it came from a co-hab. You wont be able to.
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She ate well for the first month or so, then ate sporadically, then stopped for about 6 weeks entirely. I removed her from the cohab around week 3 of no eating. Then 3 weeks after removal she took up sporadic eating again, and after a couple months of that began eating well. I will readily admit that she *is* a nervous nelly snake to begin with. Maybe some are better able to handle the stress of cohabbing, but Feren certainly was *not*.

Made reference to here: http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showpost.php?p=705587&postcount=2 Also includes earlier size difference.

In a thread on another corn forum (I'll PM you the link if you want) I mention in 08 that a mistake I made was housing two corns together, namely Lia and Feren.

I explicitly state it here, please note the date the post was made: http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showpost.php?p=639493&postcount=7
 

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Buzzard said:
I am not going to take sides here. BUT yes I would like to see those pics, THEN PROVE that it came from a co-hab. You wont be able to.

As you have stated before we can only warn. If people still choose to co-hab we can just hope the best for the animals involved. What gives us the right to tell other what they should do with thier animals. I like the inform statement from earlier but to force something down someone throat, come on we are mostly adults on this site and even some of the younger people know better.

If you choose to risk it...so be it. You have been educated. (informed of the risks)
Click to expand...

What gives us the right to tell other people what they should do with their animals is a little thing called free speech. We tell them what they SHOULD and SHOULD NOT do...yes, that is free speech.
I personally believe that forcing solitary animals to live together is akin to animal cruelty. The animal has no escape from the situation and is the one suffering.
And if I believe an animal is being cruelly treated, I will shout it from the rooftops thankyouverymuch!!!!!
 
Shiari said:
She ate well for the first month or so, then ate sporadically, then stopped for about 6 weeks entirely. I removed her from the cohab around week 3 of no eating. Then 3 weeks after removal she took up sporadic eating again, and after a couple months of that began eating well. I will readily admit that she *is* a nervous nelly snake to begin with. Maybe some are better able to handle the stress of cohabbing, but Feren certainly was *not*.

Made reference to here: http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showpost.php?p=705587&postcount=2 Also includes earlier size difference.

In a thread on another corn forum (I'll PM you the link if you want) I mention in 08 that a mistake I made was housing two corns together, namely Lia and Feren.

I explicitly state it here, please note the date the post was made: http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showpost.php?p=639493&postcount=7
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Her eating or not eating can be contributed to the co-habbing. Size of 120 grams difference is not a factor. (90 and a 200 gram snake). Yes I agree if she was 20-30 grams off that could for sure be a factor in her weight/size. But 120 grams difference tells me that she is probably a smaller snake(just like humans, not all snakes grow huge). So infact the difference in size is the reason she is so small. Not "all" cotributed to co-habbing

Let me clear it up. I dont recommend co-habbing. I am saying we should not down those for co-habbing. But better inform them. To say co-habbing is the only reason for your gorgeous snow to be small is missleading. But to better inform them that yes my snake went through a rough spot that you associate to co-habbing. And I love your passion on the subject but without scientfic data to back up your beliefs it is hard to say it is the only reason the snow is small.

I too have a small snake her name LB(little bit).She is real small, about 120 grams, she is an 05 model, I wont breed her but she is such a good education snake, so sweet and colorful. It happens. Saying she is small because she had a couple of regurge when she was 1 year old would be crazy.
 
Not eating for 6 wks plus months of on-again, off-again WILL create a huge size difference. She was 12 grams at the beginning of this year. She's growing apace with my 08s now. This means she is growing pretty quickly.
 
starsevol said:
What gives us the right to tell other people what they should do with their animals is a little thing called free speech. We tell them what they SHOULD and SHOULD NOT do...yes, that is free speech.
I personally believe that forcing solitary animals to live together is akin to animal cruelty. The animal has no escape from the situation and is the one suffering.
And if I believe an animal is being cruelly treated, I will shout it from the rooftops thankyouverymuch!!!!!
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I am glad you think like that. I am saying to "inform".

Better Yet lets run everyone off the site that doesnt do everything that we like. Or the "right way"

Your "Freedom of speech" only works when someone will listen!!!!!!

So if we get stupid and bash everyone that thinks differently than you and I. They will leave the site. Then our "Free speech" only falls on ears that have already heard it. Then it becomes a mute point. Logic over passion.
I understand you think it is being cruel to house snakes together. I am soooo happy you think that way. But all you provoke by yelling is an argument and nothing will ever get accomplished. So I truely thank you for showing others how many passionate people we have here. So passionate infact that we would run people away from this awesome source of information. ..... Thats the point Beth.... Not that it is right to co-habb. I dont recommend it at all.
 
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