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2 corns in 1 cage

Im a little amazed that over and over again there have been reasons SHOWN as to the reasons you don't want to cohab. PROOF that is causes stress and shorter lifespans, if not eaten first, and yet we still have people who can't seem to understand it. Snakes don't like being around other snakes. They just don't. End of story.

Non-snake knowing and loving people listen to snake knowing and loving people and everyones day will be better.
 
and that

Ok but in my defense I have never had a problem like cannabalizum. I have had a stressed out snake but that is easy to fix take them out and put them in a seperate inclosure. You must watch the behaviour of the snake, some dont like to be in close quarters with others so build a large enough enclosure so they arent always bumping into eachother. I have cohabed for 30 yrs and still I have never experianced what you are all saying..... I have even cohabed kings together. The only thing you need to remember is always stay on top of cleaning the enclosure, changing water, and keeping them well feed, feed in seperate feeding tubs. I truely believe if you or anyone else have done it and the outcome was bad you must have done it wrong. Humans always make mistakes...........

Im a little amazed that over and over again there
have been reasons SHOWN as to the reasons you don't want to cohab. PROOF that is causes stress and shorter lifespans, if not eaten first, and yet we still have people who can't seem to understand it. Snakes don't like being around other snakes. They just don't. End of story.

Non-snake knowing and loving people listen to snake knowing and loving people and everyones day will be better.
 
Ok but in my defense I have never had a problem like cannabalizum. .... I truely believe if you or anyone else have done it and the outcome was bad you must have done it wrong.

Because, of course, snakes don't eat each other in the wild, right? It couldn't be that it is partly in their nature. Nooo.. it's got to be that gosh darn'd hoomanz fault! In fact, it is! That hooman decided to keep two corns together in the same enclosure. Stupid hooman.


Unfortunately, the video I like to show right about now has been removed from youtube.

BUT... corns will eat other corns, even if they're in a large enclosure. Even if it's kept spotless. Even if they have plenty of hides. Even if they are well fed.
 
Ok but in my defense I have never had a problem like cannabalizum. I have had a stressed out snake but that is easy to fix take them out and put them in a seperate inclosure. You must watch the behaviour of the snake, some dont like to be in close quarters with others so build a large enough enclosure so they arent always bumping into eachother. I have cohabed for 30 yrs and still I have never experianced what you are all saying..... I have even cohabed kings together. The only thing you need to remember is always stay on top of cleaning the enclosure, changing water, and keeping them well feed, feed in seperate feeding tubs. I truely believe if you or anyone else have done it and the outcome was bad you must have done it wrong. Humans always make mistakes...........

I have never and will never do it because I don't want to come home to a snake missing. I would much rather not take the chance. If you have indeed been co-habbing for that long with NOTHING happening then you are very lucky. Lucky is not something everyone has and I know that there are many people that just don't want to take the risk.

Really thats the end of the story. If you want to great, I wish you luck that nothing does happen. For those of us that wont do it more power to us for wanting our snakes to be happy and live long healthy lives.
 
While it is true that snakes don't think like people do, and attributing human emotions to snakes is folly, to say that clutchmates have no problem with each other is pure unadulterated CRAP.
Snakes are SOLITARY animals.
Snakes don't like other snakes PERIOD.
Whether or not they are clutchmates has NOTHING to do with it!!


Sorry dude, Beth's got this right about corn snakes. They are solitary. There are very few snakes that "get along". Rattlesnakes get along for burmation in dens and I am sure a few other examples are out there, but Corn snakes in the wild either mate, fight or eat each other.
 
Ok but in my defense I have never had a problem like cannabalizum. I have had a stressed out snake but that is easy to fix take them out and put them in a seperate inclosure. You must watch the behaviour of the snake, some dont like to be in close quarters with others so build a large enough enclosure so they arent always bumping into eachother. I have cohabed for 30 yrs and still I have never experianced what you are all saying..... I have even cohabed kings together. The only thing you need to remember is always stay on top of cleaning the enclosure, changing water, and keeping them well feed, feed in seperate feeding tubs. I truely believe if you or anyone else have done it and the outcome was bad you must have done it wrong. Humans always make mistakes...........

So, you have co habbed for 30 years. Seems to me 30 years of improper husbandry is nothing to brag about.........
 
Ok but in my defense I have never had a problem like cannabalizum. I have had a stressed out snake but that is easy to fix take them out and put them in a seperate inclosure. You must watch the behaviour of the snake, some dont like to be in close quarters with others so build a large enough enclosure so they arent always bumping into eachother. I have cohabed for 30 yrs and still I have never experianced what you are all saying..... I have even cohabed kings together. The only thing you need to remember is always stay on top of cleaning the enclosure, changing water, and keeping them well feed, feed in seperate feeding tubs. I truely believe if you or anyone else have done it and the outcome was bad you must have done it wrong. Humans always make mistakes...........

I have never and will never do it because I don't want to come home to a snake missing. I would much rather not take the chance. If you have indeed been co-habbing for that long with NOTHING happening then you are very lucky. Lucky is not something everyone has and I know that there are many people that just don't want to take the risk.

Really thats the end of the story. If you want to great, I wish you luck that nothing does happen. For those of us that wont do it more power to us for wanting our snakes to be happy and live long healthy lives.
 
uh ok, not sure what just happened there. Can someone come through and take this one and the above one off. Thanks.
 
Cyclone
I have cohabed for 30 yrs and still I have never experianced what you are all saying..... I have even cohabed kings together.
The last part of this statement which I bolded, simply shows your stupidity and disrespect for the well being of your animals if you are willing to co-hab well know scientifically noted snake eating snakes!

You yourself previously state above
what you are all saying
(showing we are the majority and you are the minority). Then you state
I truely believe if you or anyone else have done it and the outcome was bad you must have done it wrong. Humans always make mistakes...........
This statement shows your arrogance. To think that if the majority does something and multiple times a set of outcomes happens, then a minority does it and gets a totally opposite response therefore means the majority has obviously done it wrong is arrogant!

Not to mention that your arrogance is enough to even blind your self to the ridiculousness you try to tell people on here. In one breath you state that cohabbing is fine and you have never had a problem with it in 30 years.
I have cohabed for 30 yrs and still I have never experianced what you are all saying.....
. Yet in another breath you admit that you have had at least 1 of the problems we have mentioned, that being a stressed snake and you mention other issues you have to worry about with cohabbing
I have had a stressed out snake but that is easy to fix take them out and put them in a seperate inclosure. If two males are housed together look out for fighting especially in breeding season seperate at that time. If there is a snake that is not eating remove it until it eats.
As well many of the statements you make are highly uneducated and unsupported, yet again you try to make them as though you know what you are talking about. Again a concern that you will wrongly educate someone that is new to the keeping of snakes.
In the wild snakes are mostly solitary, but they do come together at night, and to hybernate. They are only solitary when hunting and traveling, but thats in the wild.
Only some snake will hibernate together not all species of snake do this.

Most snakes you buy from a store or a breeder are captive and through the yrs of breeding captive they have had time to change their ways. Take out the hunting and traveling and you have a social snake.
Changing innate behavior is called evolution, which generally takes centuries and even mellenia depending on the species and the evolutionary process involved. So to say that in approx 70 yrs of captive corn keeping and breeding(less for the bulk of the breeding) that they have evolved from solitary animals to social ones!

Those of us who have been around the forum for a little while understand that there are people like you, who spew your opinion as though it were gospel fact and try to convince others of it with out foundation. That behavior concerns us, as may new members search for answers and do not take the time to read every single post in a thread.
 
Sorry for the double post ... BUT I also forgot to mention CYCLONE that is seems pretty convenient that, in your posts where you try to sound as if your minority experience is the norm and the majority experiences with negative results are because they obviously doing something wrong, you totally avoid any mention of the dangerous risk of spreading disease, parasites are other illness due to cohabbitation.

This has been brought to your attention several times and you avoid responding to it completely. I too cohabbed my 1st two snakes, as I had not done enough research and took the pet stores word as gospel. I knew enough to look for obvious signs of illness (mouth sores, signs of bad sheds, malformed stools, abnormal body shape, abnormal movement, scale rot, injuries, undersized for the alleged age, retained eye caps, signs of RI etc.). As you must know(if you have been keeping snakes for 30 yrs) they are experts at hiding illness until they are very ill. Unfortunately, for me, for my snakes and for my pocketbook, the second of the two I brought home was ill. I did not quarantine, as per the pet store, and with 1 week someone regurged but due to cohabbing, I had no idea who. By 15 days the second snake died. With in approx. 4 of then, the other had to be euthanized.

Yes I did something wrong.
1. I was new and I listened to someone like you and took their word for gospel, instead of doing more research.
2. I cohabbed.
3. I did not quarantine.

So when you tell others that there is no risk to cohabbing and then constantly contradict yourself, esp. with invalid and unfounded wrong information and will not address issues that are brought up to you...it upsets many of us who learn the hard way and many others who wish to help prevent many from having to learn the hard way!
 
Ignorance

with the kings I never stated how long I kept them together, you presume I do it all the time and have no respect for them. On the contrary I do care for all my snakes, and if you really know snakes like I do you would now when to seperate them.

I dont put them in an enclosure and leave them alone, I observe behaviour, and when a snake takes a special liking to another snake , you see it and before anything happens remove the other snake. Corn's have been documented in the wild to eat lizards, birds, rodents, and even fish, and yes the odd snake.

These are captive breed snakes they hatched together, always have food of the rodent variety, and never think to eat their cage mate. In my 30 yrs breeding corns I have never had a corn eat a corn. I have found one dead corn in the incubator and all the rest were fine.

I always feed all my snakes in seperate feeding tubs, and wait 30-40 minutes before I put them all back in the enclosure. Each group of corns are in a 4'x3'x3' enclosure with branches, and plenty of hides, and lots of greenery...

I take very good care of my snakes, its everyone else out there seems to be against it. Its not luck its skill and I have it and you dont seem too....

you all can talk it up and say no don't, but if its done right ALL THE POWER TO YOU.........

Cyclone
The last part of this statement which I bolded, simply shows your stupidity and disrespect for the well being of your animals if you are willing to co-hab well know scientifically noted snake eating snakes!

You yourself previously state above (showing we are the majority and you are the minority). Then you state This statement shows your arrogance. To think that if the majority does something and multiple times a set of outcomes happens, then a minority does it and gets a totally opposite response therefore means the majority has obviously done it wrong is arrogant!

Not to mention that your arrogance is enough to even blind your self to the ridiculousness you try to tell people on here. In one breath you state that cohabbing is fine and you have never had a problem with it in 30 years.. Yet in another breath you admit that you have had at least 1 of the problems we have mentioned, that being a stressed snake and you mention other issues you have to worry about with cohabbing
I have had a stressed out snake but that is easy to fix take them out and put them in a seperate inclosure. If two males are housed together look out for fighting especially in breeding season seperate at that time. If there is a snake that is not eating remove it until it eats.
As well many of the statements you make are highly uneducated and unsupported, yet again you try to make them as though you know what you are talking about. Again a concern that you will wrongly educate someone that is new to the keeping of snakes.
In the wild snakes are mostly solitary, but they do come together at night, and to hybernate. They are only solitary when hunting and traveling, but thats in the wild.
Only some snake will hibernate together not all species of snake do this.

Changing innate behavior is called evolution, which generally takes centuries and even mellenia depending on the species and the evolutionary process involved. So to say that in approx 70 yrs of captive corn keeping and breeding(less for the bulk of the breeding) that they have evolved from solitary animals to social ones!

Those of us who have been around the forum for a little while understand that there are people like you, who spew your opinion as though it were gospel fact and try to convince others of it with out foundation. That behavior concerns us, as may new members search for answers and do not take the time to read every single post in a thread.
 
but

baby kings on the other had are much different. You need to house them seperate right away and keep it like that. A baby king would rather eat a snake for its first meal over a pinkie. Every breeder always encounters a problem eater, and ever some end up dieing anyways. So with all my problem eaters last season I feed them to my baby king, now I changed her diet to pinkies, it can be done.....
 
with the kings I never stated how long I kept them together, you presume I do it all the time and have no respect for them. On the contrary I do care for all my snakes, and if you really know snakes like I do you would now when to seperate them.

I dont put them in an enclosure and leave them alone, I observe behaviour, and when a snake takes a special liking to another snake , you see it and before anything happens remove the other snake. Corn's have been documented in the wild to eat lizards, birds, rodents, and even fish, and yes the odd snake.

These are captive breed snakes they hatched together, always have food of the rodent variety, and never think to eat their cage mate. In my 30 yrs breeding corns I have never had a corn eat a corn. I have found one dead corn in the incubator and all the rest were fine.

I always feed all my snakes in seperate feeding tubs, and wait 30-40 minutes before I put them all back in the enclosure. Each group of corns are in a 4'x3'x3' enclosure with branches, and plenty of hides, and lots of greenery...

I take very good care of my snakes, its everyone else out there seems to be against it. Its not luck its skill and I have it and you dont seem too....

you all can talk it up and say no don't, but if its done right ALL THE POWER TO YOU.........

Cyclone
The last part of this statement which I bolded, simply shows your stupidity and disrespect for the well being of your animals if you are willing to co-hab well know scientifically noted snake eating snakes!

You yourself previously state above (showing we are the majority and you are the minority). Then you state This statement shows your arrogance. To think that if the majority does something and multiple times a set of outcomes happens, then a minority does it and gets a totally opposite response therefore means the majority has obviously done it wrong is arrogant!

Not to mention that your arrogance is enough to even blind your self to the ridiculousness you try to tell people on here. In one breath you state that cohabbing is fine and you have never had a problem with it in 30 years.. Yet in another breath you admit that you have had at least 1 of the problems we have mentioned, that being a stressed snake and you mention other issues you have to worry about with cohabbing
I have had a stressed out snake but that is easy to fix take them out and put them in a seperate inclosure. If two males are housed together look out for fighting especially in breeding season seperate at that time. If there is a snake that is not eating remove it until it eats.
As well many of the statements you make are highly uneducated and unsupported, yet again you try to make them as though you know what you are talking about. Again a concern that you will wrongly educate someone that is new to the keeping of snakes.
In the wild snakes are mostly solitary, but they do come together at night, and to hybernate. They are only solitary when hunting and traveling, but thats in the wild.

Apparently after 30 years of horrible husbandry and dumb luck, cyclone wants to try for 31.....
(and co habbing IS horrible husbandry)
 
Wait a sec........

I just noticed cyclone's age is listed at 32....


I guess this explains alot...if he's been keeping corns for 30 years NO FREAKING WONDER he keeps them as well as any 2 year old would!!

Funny thing is, MOST 2 year olds are capable of learning........
 
Cyclone, you simply got it wrong dude. I can't even expalin all the mistakes! You just, wow thats all i can say is wow!
 
Every time I see discussions about cohabbing I feel inspired to mention my experience. Yes, this experience is limited and it is only the experience of one person. I'm neither trying to condone cohabbing or say that it's a terrible idea. I'm just offering more information to be taken into consideration.

I've only had snakes for the past six years or so, and only for the past year and a half have I had any more than two. I do not house my adults together as they are a male and a female (which we were not originally aware of) and the majority of my new snakes are from accidental pregnancies. That lesson was learned quickly. I would certainly NOT house adult males and a females together, as it certainly does result in a bunch of hatchlings you were not planning for, and it causes a lot of stress on the female.

As for the hatchlings that have resulted from this, they've been cohabbed since birth. This has always been with caution. They are never fed in the same container and are always monitored after eating. They are not all packed into one tank, but are distributed throughout several by size. As they get older, I will separate them by gender (males will most likely be housed individually, but females in small groups).

As far as their behavior while being cohabbed, all of mine seem completely stress free. I say seem because obviously I can't read their minds. But they never seem affected by the snakes around them. In fact, they often hide together, even when provided with multiples hides (and no, it is not due to proximity to the heat source). I'm not necessarily saying that they like being with each other, but at the very least if they're used to it they don't mind. I have never had them "fight" with each other and have certainly never been so unfortunate as to have cannibalism occur in my collection. Maybe I'm just lucky.

If you have housed your snakes individually since they hatched, then it's likely that they would probably prefer to stay that way because that's what they're used to. But I would not go so far as to say that housing them together is animal cruelty. (I am not accusing anyone of saying that, merely that I have seen it in this context.)

At any rate, like I said, this is just my experience. Just information to be taken into consideration. Cohabbing is certainly not something to be done without caution, and only under specific conditions. I would not house two adult males together, or a male and a female, or any snakes that are not used to the company of others, and feeding should never occur in the same container. Keeping them in individual containers is certainly safer and likely what I would recommend, but I don't think successful cohabbing is impossible.
 
OK I have read throught cyclones responses. And I have to say am impressed. You are now the most iresponsible keeper I have ever had the misfortune to encounter. Beth bless your heart for trying to set this man straight but I don't think its gonna work! He is not going to listen and continue to lie about his experence. You sad little man!
 
Every time I see discussions about cohabbing I feel inspired to mention my experience. Yes, this experience is limited and it is only the experience of one person. I'm neither trying to condone cohabbing or say that it's a terrible idea. I'm just offering more information to be taken into consideration.

I've only had snakes for the past six years or so, and only for the past year and a half have I had any more than two. I do not house my adults together as they are a male and a female (which we were not originally aware of) and the majority of my new snakes are from accidental pregnancies. That lesson was learned quickly. I would certainly NOT house adult males and a females together, as it certainly does result in a bunch of hatchlings you were not planning for, and it causes a lot of stress on the female.

As for the hatchlings that have resulted from this, they've been cohabbed since birth. This has always been with caution. They are never fed in the same container and are always monitored after eating. They are not all packed into one tank, but are distributed throughout several by size. As they get older, I will separate them by gender (males will most likely be housed individually, but females in small groups).

As far as their behavior while being cohabbed, all of mine seem completely stress free. I say seem because obviously I can't read their minds. But they never seem affected by the snakes around them. In fact, they often hide together, even when provided with multiples hides (and no, it is not due to proximity to the heat source). I'm not necessarily saying that they like being with each other, but at the very least if they're used to it they don't mind. I have never had them "fight" with each other and have certainly never been so unfortunate as to have cannibalism occur in my collection. Maybe I'm just lucky.

If you have housed your snakes individually since they hatched, then it's likely that they would probably prefer to stay that way because that's what they're used to. But I would not go so far as to say that housing them together is animal cruelty. (I am not accusing anyone of saying that, merely that I have seen it in this context.)

At any rate, like I said, this is just my experience. Just information to be taken into consideration. Cohabbing is certainly not something to be done without caution, and only under specific conditions. I would not house two adult males together, or a male and a female, or any snakes that are not used to the company of others, and feeding should never occur in the same container. Keeping them in individual containers is certainly safer and likely what I would recommend, but I don't think successful cohabbing is impossible.

I have stated that I believe that forcing animals that are solitary by nature to live together is animal cruelty.
And it is an opinion with me that is not likely to change....
 
Once again Gillian, when they hide together, this is how they compete for territory. And starsevol is right, this is animal cruelty and nothing but.
 
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