Boa tail photo: male or female?

[Nanci]

Why buy a second boa with no viv for it? You can't quarantine it. What if they didn't get along? Nowhere to put the other one. If one's behaviour bothers _you_ so much that you have to move it, think how the other BOA must feel!

 

[Nanci]

I never said I co-hab for the animals

And there we have it.

 

[BloodyBaroness]

I never said I co-hab for the animals, I do it to be able to be keep more animals, but in a way I prefer above drawer like racks, because they have more space available per animal and height so they can climb. Looking at the animal alone we would keep most species individually in large vivs with loads of climbing material and such. People who keep snakes in drawer like racks, do so because they want to keep more snakes too, not for the snakes sake.

That said, In case of an urgent need to separate I can arrange a viv, but that is not large enough for a permanent stay.

Wow.....just flipping wow....

So being harassed or mauled by an aggressive cagemate beats "drawer living?"

Bull crap.

I stand by what I always have, cohabbing is done for selfish reasons without the best interest of the animal in mind.

 

[SnakeAround]

I agree with Oren, this a not a very reliable way to sex them, but that tail has a very male look.



That sounds like courting behavior. Redtails can also have dominance issues.

This is one of the LAST types of snake I would ever cohab.

Do you understand the size of tank needed to keep two full grown adult female boas? If you had room for that, you have room for two vivs.

Why on earth would you buy an animal without the means to house it properly?

I was told my 190 cm x 90 x 50 cm high viv is excellent to keep two adult boa's in by many Dutch people. It is considered quite spacious by most. Co-habbing them is as normal over here as it is for corns.

What do you mean with redtails? The constrictor subspecies or also the imperator? Mine are both unknown subspecies, but look like imperators. At first I wanted to keep only one boa, but after consulting a few fellow boa keepers and after seeing loads of boa topics I concluded I could easily keep two boa's in this viv, and I liked to have another one.

 

[BloodyBaroness]

I was told my 190 cm x 90 x 50 cm high viv is excellent to keep two adult boa's in by many Dutch people. It is considered quite spacious by most. Co-habbing them is as normal over here as it is for corns.

What do you mean with redtails? The constrictor subspecies or also the imperator? Mine are both unknown subspecies, but look like imperators. At first I wanted to keep only one boa, but after consulting a few fellow boa keepers and after seeing loads of boa topics I concluded I could easily keep two boa's in this viv, and I liked to have another one.

All redtails, including the BCC and BCI types, can have dominance issues.

The viv you are talking about is big enough for one. Especially if they are unknown subspecies. Some of subspecies can get bigger than others. They may or may not top out at 9 feet. There is no way I would keep even two 6ft boas in a viv that size. It's too cramped and does not give them room to spread out or not constantly be in each others space.

 

[SnakeAround]

Why buy a second boa with no viv for it? You can't quarantine it. What if they didn't get along? Nowhere to put the other one. If one's behaviour bothers _you_ so much that you have to move it, think how the other BOA must feel!

As told I can make a viv available but not large enough for permanent stay.

I have always been open en consistent in reasons for co-habbing, I never ever said that it is better than very spacious single vivs, but IMO it is better than putting them in drawers separately. People seem to ignore that and are not willing to admit that drawers are for their own convenience too, not for the animals.

Bloodbaroness: where did I say the behavior is aggressive or that she is mauling the other female? She lays on the smaller female, sometimes lined up on her back when she moves, she pusses her tail against the tail of the smaller female but it never gets wild. And the fact that it annoys me means nothing when it comes to what the animal feels, that is at least what people say if two snakes seem to like to cuddle up together: we cannot look at animals like they are human.

As mentioned before, the harassed boa does not seem stressed out, she eats, poops, sheds completely normally, is shiny and calm and friendly. She does not avoid the larger female, she even gets to 'cuddle up with her' by herselves. If I open the viv she is not stressing to get out or to get away.

 

[BloodyBaroness]

Bloodbaroness: where did I say the behavior is aggressive or that she is mauling the other female? She lays on the smaller female, sometimes lined up on her back when she moves, she pusses her tail against the tail of the smaller female but it never gets wild. And the fact that it annoys me means nothing when it comes to what the animal feels, that is at least what people say if two snakes seem to like to cuddle up together: we cannot look at animals like they are human.

As mentioned before, the harassed boa does not seem stressed out, she eats, poops, sheds completely normally, is shiny and calm and friendly. She does not avoid the larger female, she even gets to 'cuddle up with her' by herselves. If I open the viv she is not stressing to get out or to get away.

That is BAD, that is the start of courting behavior or dominance issues.

Get them out of the same tank.

 

[diamondlil]

I find it hard to work out the dimensions, as I'm not used to anything bigger than a ratsnake, so would it be possible to see a photo of the viv with the snakes in it?

 

[SnakeAround]

All redtails, including the BCC and BCI types, can have dominance issues.

The viv you are talking about is big enough for one. Especially if they are unknown subspecies. Some of subspecies can get bigger than others. They may or may not top out at 9 feet. There is no way I would keep even two 6ft boas in a viv that size. It's too cramped and does not give them room to spread out or not constantly be in each others space.

That is a difference in opinion than, can't help it. They can spread completely along a larger + a smaller side and across (adding up to 210 cm) and across, and they have branches to climb, I think they get more exercise than any corn in a drawer. Further they can easily avoid each other, are you sure you know how large the viv is? If they are in resting position, e.g. 'rolled up' in separate corners there could easily lay two more boa's in between resting. Both their (different) parents where known to measure about 2 meter, usually their off spring does not grow way larger than.

 

[diamondlil]

What about if they want to submerge in the water? How big is the water bowl in there?

 

[SnakeAround]

I find it hard to work out the dimensions, as I'm not used to anything bigger than a ratsnake, so would it be possible to see a photo of the viv with the snakes in it?

The lowest viv is the boa viv, only one snake visible though:

You do see the top and bottom of a cat transport device, that is about the size they roll up too when resting. In the left corner in the back you see one in it.

 

[BloodyBaroness]

That pictures helps a lot and confirms, that is a suitable enclosure for a single boa.

 

[SnakeAround]

What about if they want to submerge in the water? How big is the water bowl in there?

Both boa's have had way large water bowls when they were separated to submerge in but never did. When they were together I tried a few large ones, like a baby bath but none of them ever made an attempt to go in. I decided to just put in a dish washing bowl, which fits just in a regular sink (at least over here) so there is more room for branches. I do spray them now and than though. Especially when it gets a bit hot in that room.

 

[diamondlil]

I have to be honest with you, I don't see much climbing room in there. Overall the whole set of vivs looks lovely, but not as big per animal as I'd thought you'd have. Surely a giant snake needs a giant viv to house it in, a water bowl it can submerge in....
A few years ago I visited a breeder who had huge home-made vivs. Literally the size of wardrobes or bigger, with branches, vines and shelves. He cohabbed small groups of corns in some, a breeding group of basilisk lizards, had a whole garden and conservatory set out for his breeding group of leopard tortoises. It was like visiting a zoo! But he had racks for babies and juveniles and separate vivs for gravid females or for animals that didn't do well in his groups.
If I won the lottery I'd have setups like his, but until then I give my snakes each the maximum size I can

 

[SnakeAround]

That pictures helps a lot and confirms, that is a suitable enclosure for a single boa.

Over here most people think differently. I think compared to corn vivs the available surface is the same relatively, looking at the size of both species. I think even slightly more. Many people keep a single boa in 150 x 50 x 50 or 70 over here, or two boas but that's too small IMO. Even a single boa in 120 x 50 x 50 is done.

 

[SnakeAround]

I have to be honest with you, I don't see much climbing room in there. Overall the whole set of vivs looks lovely, but not as big per animal as I'd thought you'd have. Surely a giant snake needs a giant viv to house it in, a water bowl it can submerge in....
A few years ago I visited a breeder who had huge home-made vivs. Literally the size of wardrobes or bigger, with branches, vines and shelves. He cohabbed small groups of corns in some, a breeding group of basilisk lizards, had a whole garden and conservatory set out for his breeding group of leopard tortoises. It was like visiting a zoo! But he had racks for babies and juveniles and separate vivs for gravid females or for animals that didn't do well in his groups.
If I won the lottery I'd have setups like his, but until then I give my snakes each the maximum size I can

Well Janine, the maximum size would be the size you can give one single snake in a room, would it not be Yet you keep more than one...

They cannot climb up very far but the branches are long and they can slither over it and rest on it partially. There are two now across in a cross shape reaching from corner to corner and they have twists. They are hung up in the middle to a wooden vertical timber, so they are higher up than in this pic.

 

[starsevol]

The lowest viv is the boa viv, only one snake visible though:

http://www.snakearound.nl/images/stories/gallery/herpteks_computerkamer.jpg

You do see the top and bottom of a cat transport device, that is about the size they roll up too when resting. In the left corner in the back you see one in it.

You cohab in THOSE???? Seriously??? They are about the size of the vivs I use for single animals....just a little taller. By the way you were talking I thought you had some elaborate set up. Every single cage I see pictured really has adequate space for one animal each. You should either sell half your animals or buy a bigger house.....

 

[BloodyBaroness]

Over here most people think differently. I think compared to corn vivs the available surface is the same relatively, looking at the size of both species. I think even slightly more. Many people keep a single boa in 150 x 50 x 50 or 70 over here, or two boas but that's too small IMO. Even a single boa in 120 x 50 x 50 is done.

I guess more care and consideration is given to animal's comfort over here.

Anything less than a 6ft x 3ft x 2x gives the snakes too little room to stretch out and move around. So jamming two in that size, is too little space.

I could make a german shepherd live in a closet if I wished, but it does not give the animal nearly enough room to actually enjoy life.

 

[starsevol]

Say what you will, but in this case, cohabbing really really is cruelty.....

 

[diamondlil]

Well Janine, the maximum size would be the size you can give one single snake in a room, would it not be Yet you keep more than one...

They cannot climb up very far but the branches are long and they can slither over it and rest on it partially. There are two across in a cross shape reaching from corner to corner and they have twists.

I have never wanted to keep a snake I can't handle safely alone, so never had a desire for the big pythons, boas etc, but my corns I can keep in oversized tubs in their racks, until I win the lotto....I couldn't have a whole room to one snake because I couldn't regulate the temperature, humidity etc, remember I live in England where a few weeks of Summer are all we get! Yes I do keep more than one snake, but if I got to the stage where I couldn't have the tubs big enough so I could have more snakes I would hope my friends on here would put me right. If I cohabbed just so I could get more snakes, I'd hope my friends would intervene.