can anyone verify

[Vinman]

i wish it was male to prove out quicker lol

you dont have to prove anything it is what it is a amber motley I seen enuff of both morphs to know the diffrance. No way in hell is it a caramel motley I dont care what anyone thinks . Not being rude but how many of you produce these animals. I have for over 5 years now. I think I seen them in all sorts of hughes. Dark and light in the same clutch. I dont care if I was a gazillian miles away It dont change what a hypo lavender bloodred , grante, amber, or a amber motley looks like. The computer screan dont lie The problem is you guys have not seen enuff of them in person or on the internet to give a correct jugment. Most of you have never seen a amber motley before. All you are going on is guess work. I have animals in front of me and have produced them for many years. How can anyone tell me I'm wrong. Where is your refrance to prove other wise. The one that Joejr posted is the pic of the litter he was super light and deep yellow. Are you bassing you judgement on one animal??? I show you 3 and one of them is just 2 weeks old and it is the darker than the one posted. It is a slap in the face to me. Add up what I'm saying.

 

[captaincaveman]

Thanks for that :bowdown: i hate not knowing one way of the other lol

I hope i haven't caused too many problems with people, if i have then sorry :sidestep:

 

[Vinman]

with in 6 months time you snake will be the same color as this male in the first pic. the second is a male clutch mate look how diffrent they look

 

[jaxom1957]

you dont have to prove anything it is what it is a amber motley I seen enuff of both morphs to know the diffrance. No way in hell is it a caramel motley I dont care what anyone thinks . Not being rude but how many of you produce these animals.

You are being rude, and your logic is less than compelling. Just as it is sometimes impossible to tell a light anery from a dark ghost, it is impossible to be 100% positive what this snake is until it is bred to a hypo and produces hypo offspring. Every opinion stated in the discussion is just that: an OPINION. These are educated guesses at best. While you may have greater experience with the morph, and your opinion may carry greater weight due to that, it still remains an OPINION.

Serpenco has photographs of caramel motleys that look identical to this snake.

The Caramel gene and the Motley gene combined produce an extremely attractive looking animal that is greater than the sum of it's parts. Some are much lighter than others leading me to believe that the phantom 'hypomelanistic' influence evident in the Motley line is showing up here as well. The light ones are spitting images of what I would envision an Amber Motley to look like.

Would you agree that Rich's opinion should carry as much authority as your own?

 

[Vinman]

Serpenco has photographs of caramel motleys that look identical to this snake.

sorry they do not show any baby caramel motleys that look like this snake. You dont know I do. I can tell the difrance it is all in the tone of the yellow. That is the difrance between a light caramel and a amber . I'm loding more pics

 

[captaincaveman]

You are being rude, and your logic is less than compelling. Just as it is sometimes impossible to tell a light anery from a dark ghost, it is impossible to be 100% positive what this snake is until it is bred to a hypo and produces hypo offspring. Every opinion stated in the discussion is just that: an OPINION. These are educated guesses at best. While you may have greater experience with the morph, and your opinion may carry greater weight due to that, it still remains an OPINION.

Serpenco has photographs of caramel motleys that look identical to this snake. Would you agree that Rich's opinion should carry as much authority as your own?

But if you couldn't visually tell, then that would mean there would be alot of amber mots in people collections that are also unproven, unless they were 100% guaranteed serpenco stock, not everyones is, is it? mine even may be lol

 

[captaincaveman]

Im getting lost now, i cant see any caramel motley hatchlings on serpenco site? there is only one site isn't there? :shrugs:

 

[Vinman]

Here are 2 other 06 hold back pick of the litter clutch mates the first 2 are the female I just sold and the last 3 are of the 2nd pic of the liter male. I kept back the most yellow and lightest animals

 

[captaincaveman]

sorry, im being a dog with a bone on this one, two things ive just noticed, firstly the caramel motley shows signs of black to the saddles which mine does not have, i assume this is a plus note for hypo and secondly, the quote from serpenco wasn't complete

this was the quote

This cultivar was actually a surprise for me. Not a surprise that I would produce them, but a surprise at how attractive and interesting they turned out. The Caramel gene and the Motley gene combined produce an extremely attractive looking animal that is greater than the sum of it's parts. Some are much lighter than others leading me to believe that the phantom 'hypomelanistic' influence evident in the Motley line is showing up here as well. The light ones are spitting images of what I would envision an Amber Motley to look like.

but this important part was missing off the end of it

Unfortunately, this effect is not evident in the babies and it is only as they mature you see them getting brighter with every subsequent shed skin.

That surely must count for something lol

 

[captaincaveman]

sorry i meant the caramel motley adult on serpenco site

 

[Vinman]

like I told you before I was the first one to produce a amber motley . as Rich Z said

The light ones are spitting images of what I would envision an Amber Motley to look like.

The main word is ENVISION so that means at the time of the writing he never seen a amber motley at all ,just thinking what one would look like.

 

[captaincaveman]

this is the crucial thing in my eyes though,from serpenco

Unfortunately, this effect is not evident in the babies and it is only as they mature you see them getting brighter with every subsequent shed skin

mines hatchling size, so as rich says this effect is not evident in babies

I dont understand why this part of the quote was missed off :shrugs: :sidestep:

 

[Vinman]

this is the crucial thing in my eyes though,from serpenco



mines hatchling size, so as rich says this effect is not evident in babies

I dont understand why this part of the quote was missed off :shrugs: :sidestep:

As I told you they will get lighter with age. that goes for both caramel motley and amber motley

 

[jaxom1957]

For comparison: your snake and one posted recently on CS.COM, an 06 Caramel Motley.

I am not saying that your snake positively is or isn't hypo. Vin may be correct. He may also be wrong. My objection is to his making blanket statements that dismiss the opinions of every who disagrees.

No way in hell is it a caramel motley I dont care what anyone thinks

Vin, you may believe whole-heartedly that this is an amber motley. Others may believe just as thoroughly that this is a caramel motley. Until it is bred to a hypo and produces hypo offspring NO ONE KNOWS FOR SURE :headbang:

 

[captaincaveman]

For comparison: your snake and one posted recently on CS.COM, an 06 Caramel Motley.

I am not saying that your snake positively is or isn't hypo. Vin may be correct. He may also be wrong. My objection is to his making blanket statements that dismiss the opinions of every who disagrees.

Vin, you may believe whole-heartedly that this is an amber motley. Others may believe just as thoroughly that this is a caramel motley. Until it is bred to a hypo and produces hypo offspring NO ONE KNOWS FOR SURE :headbang:

can you see my points though, firstly about you missed the end off the quote that said that the effect mentioned isn't apparent in babies, secondly the adult shown has black to the saddles and i dont think ive seen a caramel without some black(but then i haven't seen them all lol)and thirdly unless you have personally bred them, your argument states(if they are indisquishable) that potentially all amber motleys have to be proven before they can be verified unless there is no risk of mix up or whatever

Can you see my point, i dont understand how mine does fit with other ambers(in my opinion) but mine has to be verified when others do not :shrugs:

Is it because they are not common in the uk, or cause i shouldn't be lucky enough to come across one?

 

[captaincaveman]

sorry ive just noticed the two pics, the caramel you have posted is obviously a grown on one, where as mine is little more than toe nail sized(i would have quoted a coin but i only know what a dime looks like lol) and rich's site clearly says that the effect in caramels isn't apparent in babies, i would love to see a pic of a light hatchling motley caramel cause im only seeing adults and sub-adults

 

[captaincaveman]

heres pics of that same adult

clearly alot darker than mine and this is an adult and has had time to lighten

 

[toyah]

sorry ive just noticed the two pics, the caramel you have posted is obviously a grown on one, where as mine is little more than toe nail sized(i would have quoted a coin but i only know what a dime looks like lol) and rich's site clearly says that the effect in caramels isn't apparent in babies, i would love to see a pic of a light hatchling motley caramel cause im only seeing adults and sub-adults

Remember that although your snake is small, it's not a hatchling - it's an 06. So it has had time for some colour maturation even if it hasn't grown much yet.

 

[jaxom1957]

sorry ive just noticed the two pics, the caramel you have posted is obviously a grown on one, where as mine is little more than toe nail sized

It's an 06, the same, I believe, as yours. Yours is smaller, but they are roughly the same age and should have had similar color progression.

 

[captaincaveman]

so your saying if the colours come out now and its really bright, its still a caramel? oh ok then, its an obvious caramel thats hypomelanistic compared to the serpenco stripe/motleys but not amber?