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"Guns are the cause"

rexracer said:
... Let's have firearms training in High School, ...
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I am an old guy but in my day we did have firearms training in school. We had trap shooting during phys ed for those that wanted to attend also. I have had guns for 35 years and never murdered anyone, go figure. :grin01:
 
Hypancistrus said:
No, I totally agree with you. I was just trying to play devil's advocate for the "other side." Regardless, I concur that it is the human who is at fault, and the human who ought to be dealt with legally-- not the tool used.
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I know we're on the same page. :cheers:
 
tsst said:
I am an old guy but in my day we did have firearms training in school. We had trap shooting during phys ed for those that wanted to attend also. I have had guns for 35 years and never murdered anyone, go figure. :grin01:
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Sounds like fun. As to the not murdering anyone, it was probably because you weren't exposed to detachable, or high capacity magazines. I'm sure if you could have loaded up 20 or 30 rounds, you would have found mass murder irresistible. That's what happens, you know.
 
rexracer said:
Sounds like fun. As to the not murdering anyone, it was probably because you weren't exposed to detachable, or high capacity magazines. I'm sure if you could have loaded up 20 or 30 rounds, you would have found mass murder irresistible. That's what happens, you know.
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lol Actually I grew up reloading so we had cans and cans of powder, shot, bullets, primers, etc etc I had the perfect opportunity to blow up half the county but didn't wonder why?! Those things are the causation of crime not sure how I survived it. As far as mags my first rifle was a Remington Nylon 66 that held 14 rounds. :D
 
Black rifles are far more dangerous than ones with wooden stocks. Just ask a member of the Brady campaign.
 
As usual I'm late to the party and the thread has kinda morphed onto a different talk but let me throw this down....

More Guns, Les Crime John R. Lott Jr.

I see Mike's side of it yes. But like the great Archie Bunker once said and I quote, "Ah geez little girl would it make ya feel better if they waz pushed out of windows?"

Bundy, Kempler, and Gasey were nutters and only Bundy used a gun a few times. Mass murders? There are a few folks on this planet who achieve this with by strapping a homemade bomb on their butts and running into a Chuck E Cheese.

When I was a LEO we had an exchange program with the Bobbies. I was told they were outgunned as it pertained to criminals with firearms. IE, those who had guns had them illegally and were far more powerful then what they carried. Yes, not all Bobbies are w/o firearms. There is a huge difference btween law abiding and non law abiding. In reality, if I wanted to kill someome now, I could go downtown to a criminal and get a Saturday Night Special easier than going through proper channels.

Not a shot at Mike, in theory what he states makes sense. But prohibition doesn't work.
 
ceduke said:
Didn't you know guns cause violence? Just like cars cause drunk driving! ;)
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Awsome example


You can take away the tools, but it wont end the crimes. For how many years did the use a Bow and arrow or knives to kill others, yet today You can buy a bow or a knife without a back ground check.....or did violence just now happen in the last hundred years or so?

Blame the person, not the tool.
 
I am SO SO happy that the only person advocating gun control on this thread is NOT American. If you don't like firearms....don't buy them! Plain and simple. Hey, I don't like soccer, so you know what? I don't watch it...but I also don't tell other people they can't play or watch it. There's absolutely NO reason I should not be allowed to own a firearm. Not one. I become immediately suspiscious of anyone wanting to take firearms away from law-abiding citizens. Stalin and Hitler are two people who immediately come to mind when I think of people who want disarm their people. Now I wonder why they wanted that!
 
I can see some validity, to some points, on the "other" side (not that I see people who have different opinions as "other" people). Look, I don't think that anyone in this thread seems like they're irresponsible about gun ownership. I just feel like there's way too much access for mentally disturbed people to own guns, and a little better regulation would probably help to lower crime-rates.

But as for the protecting us from our Govt... They've got some stuff (for lack of a better word) that probably trumps any civilians arsenal, and I think it's a little overly-imaginative to think that we're going to someday overthrow our Govt.

As for the cars and drunk driving analogy. It seems a lot harder to get a vehicle than a gun, and I also feel like drinking and driving is an under punished crime. As well as the fact that drinking is not only legal, but heavily promoted, while Marijuana is still illegal (not the discussion, I know. And I don't use Marijuana or alcohol). Just showing the hypocrisy of some of our laws. We can go to war before we can buy an alcoholic beverage, and we can drink and drive before we can smoke a joint on our own property.
 
I've been looking into gun deaths and am really quite shocked by the numbers I am finding...
Population of the uk 60 million... Number of gun deaths per year 50
Population of America 305 million, so statistically you should have 250 deaths if you multiply it up by the UK factor..... But actually you have 30 000 gun related deaths....
You have more gun related deaths in one city in one week than we get in our country in a whole year....
America leads the civilised world in gun crime and is higher than a lot of third world countries for gun deaths... In fact there are places in South Africa and South America that score lower than the USA....
If you feel the need to arm yourselves, so be it.... But look at the statistics surrounding your gun culture and ask yourselves is it really worth the blood shed, to up hold your right to bear arms..?
 
That 30,000 number is a bit misleading. Firearms death statistics include suicides, gang warfare, self defense shootings and criminals killed by police. I'll dig for it, but I'd like to find the pie chart of gun deaths in the US. Annually, between 55 and 71% are suicides, according the the US department of justice: http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/. The next highest category is gang related shootings. You can Google stats to prove anything, but even if the 30,000 number was accurate; yes, I would feel it is "worth it" to keep and bear arms.
 
snakewispera snr said:
I've been looking into gun deaths and am really quite shocked by the numbers I am finding...
Population of the uk 60 million... Number of gun deaths per year 50
Population of America 305 million, so statistically you should have 250 deaths if you multiply it up by the UK factor..... But actually you have 30 000 gun related deaths....
You have more gun related deaths in one city in one week than we get in our country in a whole year....
America leads the civilised world in gun crime and is higher than a lot of third world countries for gun deaths... In fact there are places in South Africa and South America that score lower than the USA....
If you feel the need to arm yourselves, so be it.... But look at the statistics surrounding your gun culture and ask yourselves is it really worth the blood shed, to up hold your right to bear arms..?
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Statistics are an odd thing Mike. Depending on how they are used they tell a different story. America has more guns than any country in the world too. Instead of using populace figures let's use gun figures. I had a tough time finding a figure but the figure I found was there are approx 97,000(BBC World Service) guns in the UK. Using that figure and the 50 deaths figure that comes out to 1 death for every 1940 guns. Now in the US there are 250 million guns so if we had a death for every 1940 guns we should have 128,866 deaths. It would seem the UK has a much bigger problem with deaths per gun than the US does. ;)
 
Michael823 said:
... I just feel like there's way too much access for mentally disturbed people to own guns, and a little better regulation would probably help to lower crime-rates.
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There are already laws in place regarding convicted criminals, minors, mentally ill, etc. What kind of law for the mentally disturbed do you advocate?

Michael823 said:
As for the cars and drunk driving analogy. It seems a lot harder to get a vehicle than a gun, ...
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Really? My 18 year old daughter bought a car with no questions asked at all. Nothing is required to own a car. No back ground check. Don't mistake a license for driving on a public road with owning and possessing.
 
Michael823 said:
But as for the protecting us from our Govt... They've got some stuff (for lack of a better word) that probably trumps any civilians arsenal, and I think it's a little overly-imaginative to think that we're going to someday overthrow our Govt.
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As opposed to an unarmed populace, I think there's a HUGE difference. And that would also be assuming soldiers in the US military would be willing to fire on its own citizens. The mere fact that over 250 million guns are owned in the country would seem to offer some protection from outright tyranny, no?
 
tsst said:
I am an old guy but in my day we did have firearms training in school.
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We had it in 5th grade. A guy came in and talked gun safety along with how to correctly load a black powder rifle. Bet that doesn't happen much anymore.
 
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