My corn snake Ruby kills Adult male mouse.

[Wylie]

...
Captive bred and kept snakes are not wild.

Ah, but there is even some controversy there because as you should already know, some animals are always "wild", they can never really, truly be tamed/domesticated. Put it this way, if I were to let my snakes out, set them free in their natural habitat, they would indeed flourish and propagate just like a WILD specimen would. Captive bred or not, both animals, the snake and the mouse, are acting on instinct, just like they would in the wild.

They are kept in tanks, vivs or tubs.

Yes, so this is what baffles me somewhat, you believe that feeding live mice to your captive bred snakes is cruel but yet you have no qualms about keeping snakes caged up. I'm just wondering where one draws the line? I mean I don't know about your snakes but unless mine have just eaten or it's during the day when they hide, overnight both of them are desperately trying to get out a majority of the time. One could certainly interpret keeping an animal caged against its will cruel as well.

I'm just sayin'...

 

[medusacoils]

Ah, but there is even some controversy there because as you should already know, some animals are always "wild", they can never really, truly be tamed/domesticated. Put it this way, if I were to let my snakes out, set them free in their natural habitat, they would indeed flourish and propagate just like a WILD specimen would. Captive bred or not, both animals, the snake and the mouse, are acting on instinct, just like they would in the wild.

But they are not wild. They are captive born and kept! As far as the domesticated part. That is pure speculation. I understand that they merely act primarily on instinct. The same could be said of a dog or cat. But the fact that we keep them, makes us responsible for the care and keep. Not just of the snake, but the mouse, as well. We owe it to them, to treat them with the respect that every life deserves. AND, if we are going to use them for food for the snakes, then we are responsible for minimizing any suffering, they may endure, during that process.

Yes, so this is what baffles me somewhat, you believe that feeding live mice to your captive bred snakes is cruel but yet you have no qualms about keeping snakes caged up. I'm just wondering where one draws the line? I mean I don't know about your snakes but unless mine have just eaten or it's during the day when they hide, overnight both of them are desperately trying to get out a majority of the time. One could certainly interpret keeping an animal caged against its will cruel as well.

I'm just sayin'...

There is a big difference between keeping a snake in a tank, tub or viv and feeding it a live mouse. I don't know how any person could make a correlation . You are grasping at straws!

My keeping a snake in a tank, tub or viv, is not cruel. I meet all of their basic needs and then some. Something they would have to do on their own, in the wild. I provide them with food, water, warmth, safety and care.

The same goes for any rodent or lizard that I may feed them. I provide those animals, with nothing less. If that's cruel, then I guess that I am the cruelest SOBird there is!

Wayne

 

[medusacoils]

Wylie; I would like to add, that the last thing you posted, made absolutely no sense. NONE AT ALL! I have no idea what point you were trying to make or if you were trying to make one at all. I'm completely dumbfounded!

The only thing I can think of is that you are partaking in the TROLLish behavior, as well! :shrugs:

Wayne

 

[MedusaCorns]

Ah, but there is even some controversy there because as you should already know, some animals are always "wild", they can never really, truly be tamed/domesticated..

What we are saying that just seams to miss your attention is that the snakes are in home pets. Yes, they could survive going back to the wild but because we house them there is no longer a need for them to hunt, nor should there be any cause for them injuring themselves.

A wolf can also be kept in home and you always have to be prepared to be bitten one day yet owners will either give it kibble or make a raw diet. I'm sure no one lets loose something living. If you want to start going into a wolf educational program, the deer is dead there too and not just let into their enclosure. I use to volunteer at Salem Wolf Haven.. I ONLY say this cause what we are dealing with "is you" Reservations like yellow stone don't count as they are meant to live on their own... Stop picking out only what you think offends you, make up another story or lame FLIP FLOP post that leads to another subject.. Stick to your words even if the truth bothers you to say it a second time. You and not just one person<~~~is it made clear??? know it's wrong. Many might judge your keeping choices. There are other forums "younger one's" that would take your choices in.

DO YOU GET IT NOW??????



so sorry we "the corn snake forum" are trying our hardest to educate the public on the PROPER care of keeping snakes.. Once in awhile someone like the "obvious" will come in and just prove how utterly ignorant some members of the human species really are.......Keep posting.. Everyone can already see what a flip flop conversation this is.. If you feel this way about animals and also dare to keep pets, I'd hate to see children.

isn't the only crazy person America.

AGAIN... This has nothing to do with hunting.. Some people on here hunt..EVERYONE on here has pets. But VERY FEW have no remorse.......

 

[RobbiesCornField]

I have no idea why this thread is still going on... I thought it was over PAGES ago!!!! Cheesenrice!!!! I didn't want to offend anyone by saying "JESUS CHRIST!!!!"

 

[Lennycorn]

I didn't want to offend anyone by saying "JESUS CHRIST!!!!"

Just Him. .....

 

[COerriccaRN]

Troll: In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional or disciplinary response[1] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[2]

As far as I can tell nothing I posted was irrelevant, off topic, or inflammatory...And I would NEVER try to provoke people just because I can. I don't do things like that. And what I have said has pretty much followed our discussion

 

[medusacoils]

I have no idea why this thread is still going on... I thought it was over PAGES ago!!!! Cheesenrice!!!! I didn't want to offend anyone by saying "JESUS CHRIST!!!!"

By Allah, I'm very bored and have nothing better to do. :shrugs:

Wayne

 

[Maize411]

I'm more for F/T feeding myself..but I will say...I like the sound of your RSX :0) got any pics of it?

 

[ceduke]

We're just enjoying beating the dead horse that we enjoyed killing. ^_^

 

[MedusaCorns]

 

[COerriccaRN]

Wylie; I would like to add, that the last thing you posted, made absolutely no sense. NONE AT ALL! I have no idea what point you were trying to make or if you were trying to make one at all. I'm completely dumbfounded!

The only thing I can think of is that you are partaking in the TROLLish behavior, as well!

Well...and here I thought you where the only one not making any since...He made a great, valid point. I agree with him. He is something I like to call "Level-Headed" and a "Realist" who "readily accepts others veiwpoints."

 

[Shiari]

only asking why everyone cares so much about a little rat thats gonna die anyway??

I have yet to read the whole thread, but I had to comment on this:

You attitude towards another living creature is positively sickening.
YOU are just gonna die someday anyway, so that means it's all right for someone to torture and murder you, right? After all, you're *just* another human and there's so very many of us.
Is it okay to leave a dog in a hot car because it's "just" a dog?
Is it okay to let a cat starve to death because of oral cancer because it's "just" a cat?

No. Any living creature, even one destined to be food for another, deserves respect because it is a living, SENTIENT creature. They feel pain, they feel terror. How DARE you imply that they are any less important than *you*.

 

[Wylie]

I'm not here to argue for any particular viewpoint, I'm simply trying to get people to THINK and CONSIDER another viewpoint, think outside the box.

My keeping a snake in a tank, tub or viv, is not cruel. I meet all of their basic needs and then some. Something they would have to do on their own, in the wild. I provide them with food, water, warmth, safety and care.

The same goes for any rodent or lizard that I may feed them. I provide those animals, with nothing less. If that's cruel, then I guess that I am the cruelest SOBird there is!

LOL. Once again, I'm not arguing what is and what is not cruel, I'm simply trying to make people think. This actually reminds me of a Star Trek episode, Next Generation, where Data gets captured by this dude who goes around collecting, capturing other species and keeping them captive and he argued the same thing, but, but, I meet all of their needs and make them comfortable, etc, etc. Once again, whether or not something is cruel is not a black and white issue, rather controversial, and I'm just wanting for people to be able to step outside their own perceptions and consider the same issue from another angle.

Wylie; I would like to add, that the last thing you posted, made absolutely no sense. NONE AT ALL! I have no idea what point you were trying to make or if you were trying to make one at all. I'm completely dumbfounded!

Well, I can't say that that surprises me at all. Totally predictable actually, that most people would miss my entire point and try to argue with me about a particular viewpoint anyway regardless of the fact that that is NOT what my intention or purpose in posting in this thread is.

The only thing I can think of is that you are partaking in the TROLLish behavior, as well! :shrugs:

Wayne

Well, all I can say is that perception and reality are two different things.

What we are saying that just seams to miss your attention is that the snakes are in home pets. Yes, they could survive going back to the wild but because we house them there is no longer a need for them to hunt, nor should there be any cause for them injuring themselves.

I agree, as in I agree that it's better to feed an already killed mouse to avoid injury to the snake and unnecessary suffering to the mouse. It is YOU along with many others who are totally missing my point. I am simply bringing to light some other viewpoints and other ways of looking at things.

Stop picking out only what you think offends you, make up another story or lame FLIP FLOP post that leads to another subject.. Stick to your words even if the truth bothers you to say it a second time. You and not just one person<~~~is it made clear??? know it's wrong. Many might judge your keeping choices. There are other forums "younger one's" that would take your choices in.

DO YOU GET IT NOW??????

Gee, I really must have missed something cause I'm not the one offended here.

Right & wrong is not black & white. Right & wrong are relative terms as you have pointed out in the above quote (whether you realized it or not).

so sorry we "the corn snake forum" are trying our hardest to educate the public on the PROPER care of keeping snakes.. Once in awhile someone like the "obvious" will come in and just prove how utterly ignorant some members of the human species really are.......Keep posting.. Everyone can already see what a flip flop conversation this is.. If you feel this way about animals and also dare to keep pets, I'd hate to see children.

So sorry I have tried to show others that there is more than ONE way of thinking, more than ONE viewpoint out there that is not necessarily right OR wrong. I'm not trying to be mean but seriously, and honestly, you are just proving my point when I mentioned how narrow-minded some people are, by posting what you just posted especially in the above quote. Sorry if the truth offends you, I mean it in the most amicable way possible, I don't know how else I could put it more nicely.

AGAIN... This has nothing to do with hunting.. Some people on here hunt..EVERYONE on here has pets. But VERY FEW have no remorse.......

Not arguing for or against any viewpoint.

I have no idea why this thread is still going on... I thought it was over PAGES ago!!!! Cheesenrice!!!! I didn't want to offend anyone by saying "JESUS CHRIST!!!!"

I know, right, isn't it crazy? I probably shouldn't have even gotten into this mess but I can't help myself when I see a person all alone getting slaughtered. And I mistakenly thought that perhaps I could get some to at least UNDERSTAND and consider another's viewpoint even if they still don't agree. I've got some good friends who have totally different viewpoints on religion and politics but it doesn't get in the way of our friendship, we simply agree to disagree and basically don't go there, we respect each other's opinions and beliefs and leave it at that.

 

[COerriccaRN]

Shiari, at this point...I really don't care. I could care less about a mouse. Humans and mice are not equal, and the way they die has nothing to do with the way I will die. A mouse does not feel human emotions. They don't cry, laugh whatever. So however it dies won't really bother me. They get eaten in the wild alive ALL the time...its just the way things are.

 

[ClickClickClickBOOM!]

I personally see both sides of the argument while still having a firm opinion about what I believe. I also believe Wylie has repeatedly tried to point out that there is never a simple black and white issue. We don't see anything cruel in keeping pets while the activists for P.E.T.A ((Gosh how I HATE using this analogy)) find that keeping ANY animal as pets is cruelty. I know some people that think keeping anything considered "exotic" is cruelty and others who go out and capture wild snakes ect. to keep as "pets". And while I don't agree that "a rat is just a rat so who cares" I'm not going to condemn someone who feels that way unless of course they try to push THEIR beliefs on ME. Which is what I feel you are trying to do to COerriccaRN and I have lost some respect for you because of it ((though you probably won't care what a newbie says)) she thinks one way and you think another big deal, you see cruelty one way and she see it another. The world is filled with people who will disagree with you and I think you should be ready to except that if not then I guess you're just going to waist a lot of breath preaching your ways with no result. You/We have said what ever points you would like to make and it's up to who ever is reading to choose to listen or not. No matter how many times you say something if someone isn't willing to listen they're never going to hear you.

Troll: In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional or disciplinary response[1] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[2]

As for this, I believe all of us fall under what you consider a "Troll". The first reply is because it's controversial to what the original poster posted ect. We where all controversial in one way or another and I believe quiet a few have posted things just to get emotions to rise. I myself am a "troll" because I have disagreed with the reactions people have had and I posted something off topic when I replied about the troll. Anyway my point is in another persons opinion you could be the troll and this just strengthens my argument that we're NEVER going to agree completely.

 

[MedusaCorns]

ROFL!

I like my box....it's safe and warm...

 

[medusacoils]

Shiari, at this point...I really don't care. I could care less about a mouse. Humans and mice are not equal, and the way they die has nothing to do with the way I will die. A mouse does not feel human emotions. They don't cry, laugh whatever. So however it dies won't really bother me. They get eaten in the wild alive ALL the time...its just the way things are.

Based on this comment, I am guessing that you thought, Michael Vic got the shaft!

Wayne

 

[medusacoils]

and I have lost some respect for you because of it ((though you probably won't care what a newbie says))

You are right! I really don't give a damn how you feel about me. I'm not participating in a popularity contest!

What has been said here, doesn't change the way I feel about any person that has participated in this discussion. It's just a discussion. And, because I choose to argue a point of view that I have, you "loose respect" for me. That doesn't say a whole lot about you. I have had many discussions, with many people on this forum and I would be glad to meet and call any one of them my friend. I don't hold grudges and I am not that shallow!

she thinks one way and you think another big deal, you see cruelty one way and she see it another. The world is filled with people who will disagree with you and I think you should be ready to except that if not then I guess you're just going to waist a lot of breath preaching your ways with no result. You/We have said what ever points you would like to make and it's up to who ever is reading to choose to listen or not. No matter how many times you say something if someone isn't willing to listen they're never going to hear you.

I guess this is the principle difference between you and I. I will stand up for something I believe in and not throw in the towel because I am getting a descending opinion!

Another point I would like to make is that cruelty is black and white. It is either cruel or it isn't. There really is no gray area. If you cause an animal, unnecessary pain and suffering, just to appease some sick and twisted, sadistic fantasy of yours, then you are cruel. PERIOD!! I don't know how you can argue it any other way!

Wayne

 

[medusacoils]

I'm not here to argue for any particular viewpoint, I'm simply trying to get people to THINK and CONSIDER another viewpoint, think outside the box.

Read the reply I made to ClickClickClickBoom. I guess it could pertain your post as well!

Edit: I guess I will point out, that I think you are confusing my wife (MedusaCorns) and me. You seem to have grouped the two of us together. Not sure if you have, but it seems that way.

Wayne