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Pied-Sided Bloodred (SMR vs. McDonald lines)

Walter Smith said:
Thanks for the comment, I appreciate it.

Yeah, I don't fully understand the "Cryptic Carrier" thing. If I remember right, Don mentioned something on the line that it's possible the white marked animals are the extreme version of the non-white animals from the lines???
The non-white marked animals seem to display a virtually very red patternless latteral as hatchlings.

Walter,
:crazy02:BOUT' CORNS !!
Click to expand...

I think what Don was saying is that the quest has been to produce bloodreds with no lateral markings at all, only the red color. He said ONE IDEA mentioned (nothing in stone) was that possibly in the quest to keep breeding for redder and redder lateral coloration that the pied sides were the result of breeding all the red away. It is just a theory and I may have my understanding wrong but I THINK that is what he is saying. So, the cryptic carriers may indeed be PS Bloodreds also but just not to the degree of the white showing. Confused now? Heck, I think I just confused myself again.

dc
 
Walter Smith said:
So, the foal would still be considered a "Painted" considering it does not display the phenotype of the parents?
Is that right??

Walter,
:crazy02:BOUT' CORNS !!
Click to expand...


Yes. A horse from parents registered with American Paint Horse Registry who is solid colored is registered as Solid Paint Stock. (They used to be called Breeding Stock).

Genetic info, may or may not relate to what is going on with pied-sided snakes. Horse people are lucky, they have DNA tests to determine which pattern genes the horses possess...
 
Walter Smith said:
Sorry Jay, but I'm pissed :mad::mad::mad: about something right now that has to do with this thread and a couple phone calls made like some grade-school taddle tales to Don. I have an idea of who they are, but that's all I'm gonna say about it.

Again, I appologize Jay.

Walter,
:crazy02:BOUT' CORNS !!
Click to expand...
Well, it's damn sure not me. That is totally not my style. I just felt the need to say that. I respect all my senior members here until given reason otherwise. And even then, I still give a wide benefit of the doubt.
 
Nanci said:
Yes. A horse from parents registered with American Paint Horse Registry who is solid colored is registered as Solid Paint Stock. (They used to be called Breeding Stock).

Genetic info, may or may not relate to what is going on with pied-sided snakes. Horse people are lucky, they have DNA tests to determine which pattern genes the horses possess...
Click to expand...

Gottcha Nanci,
so with that info, the breeding I did of SMR P/S X McD P/S could actually be 100% Pied-Sided Bloodreds, but only 1/2 of them actually displaying white coloration and the other 1/2 are Pied-Sideds displaying no white, less than a low expression Pied-Sided.

If this is the case then there could actually be a "No expression" Pied-Sided right?

Walter,
:crazy02:BOUT' CORNS !!
 
vetusvates said:
Well, it's damn sure not me. That is totally not my style. I just felt the need to say that. I respect all my senior members here until given reason otherwise. And even then, I still give a wide benefit of the doubt.
Click to expand...

It's all good Eric. I just wanted it to be known that I know about it.
It is a VERY sad thing. I figured most everyone here were adults.........guess not :eek1:

Walter,
:crazy02:BOUT' CORNS !!
 
Walter Smith said:
Gottcha Nanci,
so with that info, the breeding I did of SMR P/S X McD P/S could actually be 100% Pied-Sided Bloodreds, but only 1/2 of them actually displaying white coloration and the other 1/2 are Pied-Sideds displaying no white, less than a low expression Pied-Sided.

If this is the case then there could actually be a "No expression" Pied-Sided right?

Walter,
:crazy02:BOUT' CORNS !!
Click to expand...
In the theoretical, IMHO of limited hands-on experience, I would personally agree with that.

I wish I could remember.....seems like there is another(s) domestic animal that non-expressing parents are kept because they produce the desired offspring. And only by that route are the expressing F1's produced. And the F1's are of little to no value in producing predictable offspring themselves.
 
vetusvates said:
In the theoretical, IMHO of limited hands-on experience, I would personally agree with that.

I wish I could remember.....seems like there is another(s) domestic animal that non-expressing parents are kept because they produce the desired offspring. And only by that route are the expressing F1's produced. And the F1's are of little to no value in producing predictable offspring themselves.
Click to expand...

Gottcha. I'm getting a better understanding now.

Walter,
:crazy02:BOUT' CORNS !!
 
Walter Smith said:
Gottcha Nanci,
so with that info, the breeding I did of SMR P/S X McD P/S could actually be 100% Pied-Sided Bloodreds, but only 1/2 of them actually displaying white coloration and the other 1/2 are Pied-Sideds displaying no white, less than a low expression Pied-Sided.

If this is the case then there could actually be a "No expression" Pied-Sided right?

Walter,
:crazy02:BOUT' CORNS !!
Click to expand...

Not to butt in, but I know what Nanci is talking about with the Paint breed. You're right in saying they would be solid coloured pieds, with no expression of the white pattern.
 
dionythicus said:
Not to butt in, but I know what Nanci is talking about with the Paint breed. You're right in saying they would be solid coloured pieds, with no expression of the white pattern.
Click to expand...

Please do butt in.............LOL
Looking at it the way Nanci put it, I'm defiantly getting a better grasp of this "Cryptic Carrier" thing.

Walter,
:crazy02:BOUT' CORNS !!
 
To me "cryptic carrier" sounds too much like maybe they have the gene, maybe they don't. I do understand what Don means, but its a bit confusing. I think "no expression" pieds makes clear sense.
 
dionythicus said:
To me "cryptic carrier" sounds too much like maybe they have the gene, maybe they don't. I do understand what Don means, but its a bit confusing. I think "no expression" pieds makes clear sense.
Click to expand...

True, but then how do you market a "No expression" Pied-Sided without that being confusing if not using the term "Cryptic Carrier"?

People may think, how could it be considered a "Pied-Sided" if it has NO expression of Pied-Sidedness...........know what I mean??

Walter,
:crazy02:BOUT' CORNS !!
 
I am new to the whole figuring out what morph will come from parents etc. But then wouldnt it be a poss het pied sided? But please correct me if I am wrong!
 
Stormy said:
I am new to the whole figuring out what morph will come from parents etc. But then wouldnt it be a poss het pied sided? But please correct me if I am wrong!
Click to expand...

Well, that has been discussed before, but for it to be het it would have to act in a manner of a recessive trait. Some breedings have shown it that way, but some have not. Because of the still unclear inheritence the term het is used in quotes as "het".

There have been breedings of P/S x P/S that resulted in 100% P/S's and there have been breedings of P/S x P/S that resulted in less then 1/2 displaying P/S's
However if this "Cryptic Carrier" things holds true, then the clutch showing some white and some no white are actaully ALL Pied-Sideds anywhere from "High Expression" all the way down to "No Expression".

What I mean by P/S's is Bloodreds actually displaying white in some form of expression.

Walter,
:crazy02:BOUT' CORNS !!
 
Walter Smith said:
Sorry Jay, but I'm pissed :mad::mad::mad: about something right now that has to do with this thread and a couple phone calls made like some grade-school taddle tales to Don. I have an idea of who they are, but that's all I'm gonna say about it.

Again, I appologize Jay.

Walter,
:crazy02:BOUT' CORNS !![/QUOTE
Walt
You've got me man! I'm one of the grade schoolers.
I did contact Don about this thread,seeing how he has some vested interest in it.

For those who don't know,we are the ones that bought Walter's collection back in 2002 or 03.
In the collection there was the original male that Walter refers too from Brad McDonald.Along with the male there were three of his daughters.

In 2005 we bred the original male to his three daughters and got about 50 eggs total from the three.
While they were incubating Don calls me to let me know that he has hatched these awesome Bloodreds(he chose to call them Pied-sided's)
We could not wait to hatch our babies assuming we were going to get Pied-sided's.Well when they hatched we only hatched normal bloodreds.
Don was great enough to allow us to get a trio from him that year.
In 2007 we bred the trio of P/S's and got all P/S babies.
We also bred the P/S male to the daughters of Brad's male.
That breeding produced no P/S's.

Don was a bit perplexed by this until i contacted Walter and was told that he did not keep the babies from his breeder loan with Don.He chose to breed the male to a different female and keep those babies.
The only thing that was different from Don's and our females were the mother,not the father.

Everyone can make ther own conclusions.
just my $.02
Rob
Click to expand...
 
Walter Smith said:
True, but then how do you market a "No expression" Pied-Sided without that being confusing if not using the term "Cryptic Carrier"?

People may think, how could it be considered a "Pied-Sided" if it has NO expression of Pied-Sidedness...........know what I mean??

Walter,
:crazy02:BOUT' CORNS !!
Click to expand...

If its 100% genetically pied sided, then it would still be pied, regardless of the amount of white its showing, like in Paint horses. I would use that, 100% genetically pied sided, to explain the term "cryptic carrier" or "no expression". No matter what term is used, there will probably be some confusion about it.
 
RobStevens said:
Walter Smith said:
Sorry Jay, but I'm pissed :mad::mad::mad: about something right now that has to do with this thread and a couple phone calls made like some grade-school taddle tales to Don. I have an idea of who they are, but that's all I'm gonna say about it.

Again, I appologize Jay.

Walter,
:crazy02:BOUT' CORNS !![/QUOTE
Walt
You've got me man! I'm one of the grade schoolers.
I did contact Don about this thread,seeing how he has some vested interest in it.
Click to expand...

WOW............REALLY???

I tell ya, I'm floored because you never even crossed my mind as one of the callers.

It just burnt me up to get an ass ripping email from Don saying that the callers explained to him that I was trying to make the McDonald line superior to the SMR line.

That is not the case or the reason I posted this. The one and only reason I made this post is to show that the SMR line and the McDonald line produce very nice animals equally and that the McDoanld line should not be looked at as a generic or lesser line.........that's it, that's all, period.

As I told Don I would never say anything to take away from the SMR line, which I don't in my post and actually say that and there is nothing in my post that isn't true.

Hell, I'm proud to have been the one to actually start that project and for Don to finish it.

I'm just shocked Rob............surely didn't think it was you.:confused:

Walter,
:crazy02:BOUT' CORNS !!
Click to expand...
 
RobStevens; said:
1068701Walt
You've got me man! I'm one of the grade schoolers.
I did contact Don about this thread,seeing how he has some vested interest in it.

For those who don't know,we are the ones that bought Walter's collection back in 2002 or 03.
In the collection there was the original male that Walter refers too from Brad McDonald.Along with the male there were three of his daughters.

In 2005 we bred the original male to his three daughters and got about 50 eggs total from the three.
While they were incubating Don calls me to let me know that he has hatched these awesome Bloodreds(he chose to call them Pied-sided's)
We could not wait to hatch our babies assuming we were going to get Pied-sided's.Well when they hatched we only hatched normal bloodreds.
Don was great enough to allow us to get a trio from him that year.
In 2007 we bred the trio of P/S's and got all P/S babies.
We also bred the P/S male to the daughters of Brad's male.
That breeding produced no P/S's.

Don was a bit perplexed by this until i contacted Walter and was told that he did not keep the babies from his breeder loan with Don.He chose to breed the male to a different female and keep those babies.
The only thing that was different from Don's and our females were the mother,not the father.

Everyone can make ther own conclusions.
just my $.02
Rob
Click to expand...
More evidence that Don S and McDonald PS are not compatible, but both are reproducible.

Different genotypes with the same phenotype. Both cutting edge Morphs.
 
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